DarkAngel_

those who deserve 'death' by the justice system, should instead be phiciatriclly studied as to not have it happen again. finding the reasons why may give us clues as to preventing these events all together... not 100% but you get the idea. screw the death sentence lets study them for the rest of there lives!

ill just put this out... I'm kinda needing to speak out after reading this: i have a weapon in my house, i largely carry a blade, i love women (and yes beauty is associated with cruelty, just go into the forest for a week) and hey, I'm no alpha male but thats just because i don't pick fights, i thing in our evolved state alpha means the man with the most influence, but these generalizations are destroying the ideology of individualism, and your research data and comparison just based on family of species is crude at best...

theres a genealogist, forget his name, but he came to the conclusion (through observation) that protein structures could not have been formed by random properties... but instead seem to fall together naturally by a force either not discovered or undetectable, the generations of Geno-mutation did not just happen through natural selection, but by interactive mutation breaking off parts of the Geno type and leaving the rest behind, sometimes paring up to a new gene and mutating another cultured Geno type... in other words Darwin was correct but not fully, and there is potential in intelligent design (which by the way may have nothing to do with a god or deity, but if it did that would be soooo cool, even though I'm atheist.) wow, how rude lol. religion is absolute, so is the state so: they oppose each other, the scale of justice is defined by both sides... the fight is hardly necessary by religious groups (often rightists) and stubbornly followed by simpletons on the left. you see its the scientists and researchers who should make the truth be known and debated, and only between them! free idea's and sharing of knowledge may perpetuate codesendence but its hardly a contradiction, just an odd circumstance. if only we had podiums like in greece, where we could freely share our theories, i bet all you religious folk would like that, but remeber, every idea is open to critisism and the right to be proven wrong. as for the politics... this is a moral/religous forum right? what does this have to do with that: simplify for me please? (because "Intelligent State economy" just seems like a working structure of argirithms, statistics, and stock transfers. ya know, the free market)

lol... he in my mind was an @$$, i mean a battle with honor, not death and genicide...lol as well, war has nothing for us but cause ill will tword one another. and us westerners are doing no better at keeping ourselves and mantaining dignity, our opinions are still shrewed and religous radicals here are left to rave and rant untell one day: boom! they decide to do something. Higgly: sorry for not quoting neitzche, but smart comments are not necessary. also whos: Shavluk.

ive grow to respect most of you in the past, but i do not take lightly being sized up in the forums... i dont know if its arrogants, vanity, or just rude ignorants thats often thrown at my words. i am past zarathustra, but that fact (man must be over come) still cannot illude me. in fact, i have gone deeper, found that tragedy is beautiful, taking steps away from people so as not to inflict *so to speak. i have been in my own mind for far too long and in my solitude... as zarathustra found, a new creative will must exirsize itself or the future we behold will be; decodent. i come here to learn from other minds, tell me; do you deniy me yours? are you not people of kinship? what do you qeust for in this site? self asurance? is this fun to you?!! answer my qeustion and lets make this productive... don't tell me you all have learned enough, if that the cause my point for being here is...nothing

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As it would seem dear freinds, war has become useless. once its bravery and hardiness, chivalry and a new day was just around the corner, to be a new age... and never used, but done with truest heart... now; political scheme, agenda, and statments are the use for war, tell me; has a war ever really been won after korea? did those who craved death die by there blade? no they survived to rape and pillage another day! indeed it seems war is now a farse-hood and hopeless fight.... soon we will forget why we are fighting in the first place. but let me ask you this: if an idle, an icon, a hero would rise to the challenge and rally support from all sides, could it be that instead of a good cause defeating any fight, as it seems is not really working in full, could a good fight resolve this shurade? or are we too morally decayed, are we to be overcome by another rather then ourselves? is man not something to overcome? we talk too much, yet nothing is done in greatness.

wait... im either confused or not getting this strait... so religion and science work together? looking at it, one can match and drop all day, but philosophically, they are different (too different) to work hand and hand. through science one can say "god could exist" does religion use that ground? no! they say "GOD DOES EXIST" without any form of prove that can be scientifically deduced or experimentally founded. see? unless the people saying so are... different from the church (which ive seen being very uncommon at least in stubbornness) if you are please tell me, do you question unfounded, unproven, and almost phantom beliefs? if so i applaud you.

adding to topic, i see that faith, loyalty, and new idea's are valued here, which is good, i kept telling myself that, as pegenism once turned to christianity, so must christianity turn, but to what? i am not wrong in putting change above all else, but i try my best to look for books of faith, loyalty, and new idea's, but faith can be blind, loyalty can be tyrant, and new idea's can be catastrophic, so then i add: nothing has sent man and his destany a sign to be glanced by, and no event has been unexplained by man (outside movie thearters) that has given us plight and gold, we are too many and our gifts more common and man himself is confused. which one of you are not confused? then you are set in your ways and stuborn, never to change! do we really know whats beyond death? are you not a listener, or finder of truth? well... i count myself as one, look to science and understand its hardness, in the end it explains things we know, and are not just words. i was morman... got tired of things i could not see, people not willing to listen, and preists preaching golden words. am i set at atheism? no, i change every time i find something to investigate, and the old ways are the wrong ones in my eye's, not just out of opinion, i found parts of history seen in the bible unexplored or marked 'tabu' if seen into. want an enlightening book? read the latest news at NASA, or go to wikipedia and look up quantum physics, the big band, blue/red shift and the string theory, read years of men testing their bounds instead of faith. if not, then im not one to answer...

i agree with your reasoning, that his prognosis was false... but lets humor his expectations, what are the scientific possibilities in our current state, to there being a deity? and what is the likeliness of us knowing his intent, complexity, and domains of worship. (such as virtue, enlightenment, and reproduction) i'll tell you! in most causes, he is called omniscient, but the 'uncertainty principle' kicks that out of the water, though, it could have loops of which both can be known without passing the moment in non-linier time... (cause you cant know what an atom is doing, and its exact position at the same moment.) though, that would mean more subatomic particles are present, and they have free radical properties... i don’t know... maybe, but the odds of one planet, in one solar system, being made by one deity, and 'unknowingly guided' in destiny, is very imposable, though very slightly possible, and the interaction plus stillness of activity in our world, that is not world-widely super natural, and unexplainable, is proof in-of-itself... basically, god has a very unlikely chance of existing as we worship and define him... the declaration of a god in existence is irrational, unless we find a part of science that tie's existence with a controlling, or influential source. (but then i could say god is gravity...lol) some say he does not have omniscience… weird, then he would have to be watching us from a close distance, which is also bull in my opinion, because that would mean he is not ‘creator and seer of all’ get my point? As well they say he governs the heavens and earth, tough if u look at it, we are a part of the heavens, and the devil controls hell, well then black holes are hell. Though both would have to have a proving point, which they do not, and other religions hold close the same believe in celestial divinity… science is not worship, it is doubt with an open mind. (or should be) as well, the facts, or scientific data deduced by math and logic, point out we are not that far yet, as to point out the existence of a god. so how the hell can the church be ahead of science, if we keep blowing there skewed believes out into the ocean, (as well the church did not create the I-pod, shuttle, pen, paper, scarf, car, or our economic system.) maybe im putting faith in science, but no! I doubt everything they say, I look into it myself, and if one day I have a lab, I’m going to investigate every corner of our bounds! But until the day science proves the existence, or nonexistence of a god, us scientists will continue to learn, instead of put faith in the old age tradition of following cultural tie’s, fighting any opposition without end, and indoctrinating our kids at bible class and school so they will continue the legacy of fighting evil, as well as heretics, as we are ‘evil’ too right? and believing what has yet to be proven or disproven…

if they have power, why prey on the weak? countries don't go to war with farmers and merchants, they go to war with people who have some measure of power... the only reason to go after the weak is to round them up and use them to be pee-ons and builders of power, 'together the weak can be strong' and i have no idea who said this quote, i'll look it up some time. agreed. i'd never say other wise. but some morals are spawned and tought by the church. as well, to add to PolyNewbie's comment, if we where all 'weak' who would stand against power? power is always perceived as evil, or driven by malice, but i think evil is an action, it is not laughing in the dark wanting to kill children, that's insanity these days remember? lol and in addition, people are becoming pathetically weak, like 'im 21, lazy, stupid, and cant walk one mile without rest' kind of weak, also people are too concerned with the mundane and unadorned, though this is good in peace, we are forcing an artificial peace by isolation and pushing war on everyone else’s land, that means if the front line breaks, the weak will die. (seeing as how hundreds of factions in the world want to take us apart piece by piece and burn all us non-believers, to be blunt) i do understand where you are coming from, some are weak and stay weak from the events that unfold, if too much pressure is built up, often people do not learn, but imagine what its like to be strong and be needed everywhere at once, that means too many weak spots have grown, so they need enforcing, fortification, and help becoming strong, that way we can fight together, agreed? and yes to a certain point i am saying its always a fight, peace doesn't last long, but we can make the wars less bloody in my opinion. but back on to this topic, what of moral status according to class? is there a difference based on your social position? The only reason this confuses me is it seems like if morals are natural, would a certain job change it’s chemistry so-to-speak? I don’t think it would…

That still does not explain a moral presents in instinct and logistics, as well as other moral codes being greater even in standards then the ‘eye for an eye’ philosophy, with the golden rule obviously follows. Though it is better to treat people well, and hence be treated well, that is very uncommon due to our grouping and isolation in socially interactive cultures like our own. Though widely excepted morals that have instinctual obstacles like killing and rape, are rejected by the collective and could be due to 'the golden rule,' biblical, piety is not the source of this common moral, or in my definition being re-worded to; 'the common rule,' so i do not believe the golden rule is the most common, if that’s what you mean. I agree, the powerless, and other words careless people in the world have become weak, greedy, and over passive, even in war and violence, we should try to not rely so heavily on the state or government for food, shelter, and protection, People seem to have become slaves of their money. Though the weak do need to be protected meaning they crowd around the strong, governments seem to use that to strengthen their position against one another. To add to your point, those morals have a code of justice, at least in giving the criminals a chance to prove innocence, but in all essence not even the civil citizens are innocent to the state because the only propeller of our justice today is greed.

Following this topic i cannot help but comment, this is genius! my brain is firing off like fire crackers!!! As well, morally, if information is correct and not vague or scrambled, a decision is easier to reach. but in the act of genocide it could be information was lacking and a collective or even selective leader choose an action based on the threat and information present, and not to mention the threats perceived by that individual or those individuals being very different in structure, agenda, and motivation from one another. like maybe Hitler had the motivation to kill the Jews as a religious threat against his agenda, to make a paradise or his collective image of the most likely structured society to survive, peace is the result of survival, so he waged war to create a peace...(to elliminate the threat) that in his mind was the best way to survive, no excuse intended. or on a stranger topic it could be; the focus of the minds survival and threats based on information feed by propaganda, parents, religion, culture, history, and former actions and experience, perpetuate a moral structure that puts defense of there defined 'kin' as top priority, or even just as self preservation. as well, good actions can be based on this as well. the moral definition for protecting the 'mundane' and non-related... even awkward like protecting a bear from being shot, or saving a cat from a speeding vehicle are mostly a puzzle to me, maybe the familiarity is a means to define them as not a threat, and should be preserved as 'fellow pray' so to speak? Or maybe past down like that information, some hit cats for fun, some protect them, based on what 'morals' where passed by the parents, maybe there are 2 kinds of morals, instintual and artifical. See what I’m saying?

how’s that possible? i'd get like $100 dollars a week working at a fast food restaurant! :angry: WHERE DOES THIS HAPPEN?!! (and i'll be sure to move there right away...)

ya i saw that CSI, it was perrty good, and i agree that people put too much emotion into it, but i think its not emotion i'm sick of, its that people try to make it as dramatic as possible, almost to the point of being an over projected act! movie drama nomine of the year, another pathetic attempt to make life 'hollywood' style. if i have a wedding, it'll be me, her, and family in the middle of nowhere, that way a fight breaks out; there will be no where to run, it'll be solved then and there!

maybe i worded it wrong: i'd need to know the full text; i was meaning maybe it was telling others to ignore persecuting non-believers, because they would be shown the one and only god in due time, the states under god may be represented as servants of god at the current time, but on the flip side what if the meaning is referring to the events led by noblemen that have done bad based on no one believing, a lesson? i don't know, as i said, i did not read the bible, but now’s a good time to start, any suggestions on getting over my anger of indoctrination of children into religion? Objectively I still see this as positive brain washing, would never being told ‘there is a god.’ Be a form of brain washing? incomplete information and lack of information are much different, maybe its my personal resentment toward my past and present ties to that indoctrination? Fear perhaps?

be assertive! be kind! be teaching and wise! these are the ways to teach, with positive empowerment, and a lack of objectivly tangible rewards, more so, to give rewards of fun, learning, and great meaning. i'd only spank them if it was ruled 100% necessary, parents often use it too frequently, as an effective means to humble and quit them, i would use more harsh but reasonable punishment, like putting him through such 'wastes of time' and showing him motivational discipline, like hard pointless chores bent toward teaching him, like if he stole $50 i'd make him work 1 penny an hour scrubbing the front of the fishing stall! until it was repaid, it would never be clean and his or hers only brake would be lunch, dinner, and bed time. if it was a very bad thing, and he knew better based on a strong lesson i thought he learned, then i would show him another way, with pep talks, pearls of wisdom, and actions of meaning, for all you people who don't do that... spanking is too easy and is only for toddlers lacking in mental discipline, Meaning the child was spoiled or shown a way to be selfish by example…

i agree BC_chick! a cute or beautiful girl that kick the crap out of the attacker is very appealing! i love a girl that can protect herself, just as well, i feel (as well as many other men) an obligation to protect the weak, and women are no exception, infact, are the reason! my friends went down and beat the crap out of a guy raping a 14 yr old, i think the generalization of the wacko's in our gender being seen as 'men' instead of 'desperate pervs who cant git a date' is why women activists are hitting resistance. most men would kick the brains out of a rapist! and i will constantly be on the look out for a girl in need...

actually, we elect people we think will do good, often they lie just to get the vote! and then act the complete opposite as once promised! its corruption on a more artificial level... they act on an original agenda; like senator Burns in the states claiming to not want logging companies to move into national foresting areas, then letting them in and clearing more then half the forest! and yes we voted for him... on a higher extent, just look at the UN and the food for oil scandal, not like they just got the job.

exactly! indeed it is bad men sneaking up the ranks! these men are deceivers and men of bad ethics, that is why government is built with these priorities: destroy all threats, take away more rights, control weapons, allow us to 'bend' the rules, increase self pay-roll, enforce tax! Government is out of place! a government ran by methodical people is a tyranny, did you know 60-75% of Americans disagree with our governments actions? of course you did! i only here it every day! and other countries also disagree with american ran actions. its because its being ran by men with ill moral... we need new blood, and good blood. the men on the top right now are ruining the American image, who's with me here?

so wait, this meaning in literal is a gathering of an 'army' of the faithful? as if i guess to say, "a great evil will rise and the battle shall start..." is in not true then, that they say the war will be on earth and with man? have you not heard the saying: "all events are proceeded by prophecy, but without the hero, there is no such event." that would mean this may be instigated by quacks with a god-complex and want for world order(hey! thats the USA!), or even domination! but what if man picks another route, would you morn our decision to destroy the chances of your salvation? of our own? would you choose to abandon your god, if it gave mankind unlimited control of their destiny? our perception and logic dictates exactly how reality is defined in our eye's, but if you look into reality with knowledge and curiosity, as well as doubt, the truth of the forever unknown arises with potency. "after we die, where do we go? not for me to know." this "undiscovered country" is forever such... and seems to be motivation for those prophecies. it takes man to make these events happen, that’s the only possible solution to the points made by Jesus: "27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me" it may be, that he meant those who WANTED to rule over man, if indeed the intent of man was to rule. Maybe a supreme judgment of the unfaithful to the one and only god, was his intent, that his servants were the countries that are "under god." although my atheism is set on the thought of gods and demons being a manifestation of man, meaning mankind is the only effect observed that is called 'the hand of god'... in my experience, god was made by man, and can be forgotten by man just as easy, paving the way for modern hopes like science, which has never disappointed my curiosity. whilst, when i was in the Bahá'í, i was often faced with great questions that the faith had no remark too, so i gave up my apprenticeship to study science.

i agree with your last point, dependence on an economy brought to you by a government can be a weakness in that if the infrastructure fails, the society built on it falls apart. in my experiance, work for food is more rewarding, when not being paid in cash... hunting for food trains your senses, as well as farming increasing lore in homeopathies and alchemy. knoledge and skill are obtained much more naturally, if you learn it through practice for survival. though as a working system, the government is very powerful in solving and crushing, and often is a good way to structurise almost impossible taskes, like building massive bridges or feats of technological marvel.

also in my opinion; why beat up women? are 'girl beaters' really gay and insecure about that? why beat up women if you love women? the most i'd do to hurt a girl is shave! and possably make her a dinner! both would hurt her even if it wasn't suposed too!

Really? doesn't sound like it... how about this: women can be instigated to abuse just as well as men, that does not leave any fault for the person blamed to be the cause, the action was made by choice, and abuse cannot be excused by any situational instigation. men and women have the equal opportunity to instigate unknowingly, then it is of no fault to them, but on any rare case of the instigation being made on purpose, by a sick minded or mentally insane person, with the instigator result of abuse being satisfactory, then both parties should be punished, but the abuser should be punished well beyond the instigator... the same would go if it was 2 men or women on trial for acts of violence and instigation. though i would fear the abuser using this to their advantage, by claiming the other person is insane or mentally ill, making the court give a test to the victim, and, in their state of trauma, seeming mentally ill and being punished for malicious intent, when in fact, the victim was completely innocent. am i still wrong? as well its never a persons fault for being brutally beaten up, i never said that, and never would.

pragmatic? i guess because it is a moral issue to have obligation to those who serve you, and is moral when respect of those whom protect and act by at least some of your word need a basic physical prestige such a money to make intent of the 'one bodied' people known and followed through with. i don't decide, i just kind of figure out, if i got to pee, and they stop me cause i have no money, and so i pee outside and get arrested for indecent exposure, then its their tax that made it possible and is wrong, even more so if i did everything in my power to gain access to the bathroom facility. the same goes for travel, i hold no obligation to them in my journey, i choose to walk or drive, so that i could go somewhere of my choosing, if i am broke and they kick me out, would they not hunt me down if i went around? my point stated. ya, more then that... basically being your own country-state, and detaching from government and living off your domain, as in hunting, fishing, farming, and other things needed to survive on your own. just as well, stripping all rights and obligation of citizenship. people have already done it.