DarkAngel_

lots! yeppers! ok, i can get that, its like wine or coffee; an acquired taste. please don't, i stress a believable point, not an advertisement for those 'looking around.' lol i think every option should be explored, i think science should be questioned not disregarded... i see those who don't love the meaning of the earth and all the things we can see and feel... as false romantics. these things are made of something, it is all we feel and see. take it away and we are gone, it must be seen that we are dependent of this world and same the other way around.

let me get this strait... nothing is real... nothing matters but to you! what is the point? yes nihlistic... i think what a tree is, what dirt is, stars, space, and thus the romantics of worldliness... gifts a solitary meaning. why claim an illusion? why claim a truth? questions you must ask yourselves... Pliny, your theory is intricate, it is very mind shaking... An illusion is a distortion... you in effect are then calling what is observable; the field of everything, distorted. you are claiming then that what is underneath the observable is real but we are not due to our only known form of chemical interactions, balances, and processes. though a variably possible theory i would not validate it so readily... these processes are not oriented to any misleading thing, they are states of which something is in... i see these as real tangible things and that beyond them are even more intricacies not the answer of 'the grand illusion.' any depth to your theory still dampens christian, Buddhist, and atheist belief.

i've made the same point! you see, i'm not single minded i take things into account and use what is obvious as reference for finding... opening in disprovable fact and backgrounds where you would see a shadow of something you may not have see. i like the unknown but i tell people often, it is unknown! so stop claiming war on what is different because they claim it... others i just disagree with, they debate with me here in this forum, and the disciples of christ church, the college, and the MHC. but your answers are not devoid, let me put light on it: So that there is something to do and a place to do it. this is called the presence of now... that all of nothing has to come to something. it is a canceling term in mathematics that means any set of zero has a value that still exists... eliminate time and look at randomization in chaos; 1. it must be sensitive to initial conditions, 2. it must be topologically mixing, and 3. its periodic orbits must be dense. separate that from all 3, you still have a state of condition's too science like? then i will translate into this: nothing cannot exist because it is to susceptible to becoming something... so the collision of nothing and everything that can ever be, not be, happen, not happen, and that which is beyond it causes that 'now.' none of this is proven but is studied. let me say instead that even if there was nothing something must be... it's something beyond our current chemical process. You. i can't control them believe me i've tried. This is actually three questions and I don't know why you didn't itemize each one, unless you think it is a category? the soul is a question right? well to me it is. Nothing. Think of it like a parallel universe of entirely different matter and energy and time than you are used to studying. It is so foreign to the physical universe that we know nothing of it. So it is nothing. inter-dimensional... interesting... though this cannot be know i will count is as possible. You mean, what can a soul be. Nothing has a soul. The soul can be whatever it considers it can be. Lao-tze once awoke from a sleep in which he was dreaming he was a butterfly. Upon awakening he did not know if he was the butterfly or his human form. He could consider himself both and did. Can you consider yourself an elctro-chemical process - already accomplished. Unfortunately, you don't wake up from that dream - Sorry. that then means, the soul is the tie of all that exists, has existed and will exist, as well as everything that does not exist, has never existed and will never exist... uni-verse? Johannes Scotus Eriugena? ok i accept that. and lao-tze? i do not know his works well but he is said to be a grand philosopher of ancient china! i agree that one does not know ones form until they move and notice they are animated... but what does this mean for the soul? it is not known... but being one with a soul i know what i can be, i am a dreamer and i awake as i wish. They are not needed. They just are. They have no origin, they are, they always have been and they always will be. Origin suggests time which is of this universe. it needs no time, not everything exists in the 4 dimensions but a soul is mobile here... i ask why are we that soul. i say which part is it. your being a bit condescended in speaking like what cannot be seen... is. (though it can be.) They are truth. that is not an answer, tell me what they are, truth is too subjective and is only taken form me saying the word. Dog spelled backwards. I'll leave this one up to you. i ask in earnest. what is god to you. you misunderstand me, my point of view is useless but my questions grant insight and helps even you ask yourself by way of repetition of the statement. evidence is not needed as proof but what is, must be understandable. facts cannot be plucked like an apple from a tree... they are high up and hard to reach... in metaphor all i can say is no ones legs are very long as to get the final word of everything and compare it to the beginning... this is a delusion. yes but humans do these things anyway... get it? it is not atheists but 'people' with an evil agenda for power. therefor is false. and any 'one' put under conditions can make a bad choose... it matters on morals... that is all. i have not... a summary would help i love new things! which is why i am asking these questions.

yes, that which i am certain is clear, the air i breath is air... that's basic logic. and as what can be found is found and that which is not is believed, which can be used for overcoming what is human? becoming more. even if you say these things are not true i ask you to try to find them, then to disprove them... only a scientist can disprove a scientist not class or job wise but from the very heart! and these truths will make people who do not ask and quest learn that when one holds there breath... you will soon learn you must breath. of course but i do not agree with the word 'just.' do you know how much power and ability information holds? it's the needle to the fabric! none of that is true, he is a tool, he has his intelligence, his being his individuality! why would he lead me? there is no point... there is only things he knows and a friendship as well. i suppose you may see that as holding onto the skirt of another so to speak... i can see that. but it is not true, please take my word on that. kind of a stigmatic statement... lol. i'll be kind it is funny... but i know the process of my meds and it is something i need for some sanity. i'd like it if such puns where kept to ones self but i dont care, it is a question i am too sarcastic not to answer! my answer: i sleep speratically, 4 hours, 12 hours, or none most nights... my meds do not cause sleepiness, they stabilize, balance, but i know not to what degree is the meds and which is me... (be sure no insults are under that thought of simple understatement's.) my mind is very level most days but i know when my tone changes, at least i can change it. and i do not nap for good sleep does not hint... a passionate mind... but a sublime one that always sloths and dares not change or go and get burnt to experiance what is hot if you get the metaphor. this is one way i am godless! god is a human shade... with no extremes. i start from no knowledge to knowledge... mostly theories, most is not certain. what is? i do not need a god.

how vain... what do you know of spirits? immortals? this planet is not yours to own, and it will keep it as so... your ideal turns people into grasshoppers, thinking you are immortal when your brain is what tells you this... we have not known this so neither do you, you have no superiority to me nor i you. also do i litter? no. i wreck nothing! i create! and it is no litter... and why declare yourself a god when you cannot prove it? show it? why say you are immortal just to spite the world of men? what other reason is there, i hear it in the words you say and it is decaying! your world is yours, this one is not to be owned and those on it can claim as they wish but when the world transforms from lush to a rock of fire... we will learn we are a part of it, not an immobilous god-thing that keeps items of celestial significance captive! this is delusional and thereby false... say what you will. i have not yet heard you question yourself.

but look at how grand it is then to say, that no scripture holds the complex beauty of our blooming downward helix. what tears at webs of insanity, the fabric of life itself, and what causes our flesh to burn for it! for one another... and the dark. there is a void in what we think we know... we do not know it but we are trying to, but without a mirror for us, it is hard to look at what because we are stuck in absolute. god is absolute so i say break those laws of the meek! throw down what is chained between fate and what is earthly real! no hell below us, no heaven we must flight to, no place to earn, only a life to live the way we see fit and to make our own moral code that is beyond good and evil! you are right, we are miraculous, but so is everything else... if i am like the seed then i can rejoice in that, and praise the earth and that universal thing, that passion that makes star stuff so whole. if i am an animal then i can love what i am, and learn to dance and sing beyond my own footsteps, hence i become something more then i am. this earth is no material plain to your 'ethereal,' no 'otherworlds' are behind your walls and doors and windows. it is no picture nominee of the year, there is no judge to place a golden halo at my neck... i do not need a god. i take something from Nietzsche when i say this, "I am William the godless." i do not care if anyone is right, i will always have no god to worship, no people to become, and drone to follow into the church of unholy things... i do not fear declaring a god. even when the world is at an end or i am at my death bed! i will be godless and free.

in a form it can be, but not all power is knowledge that is a narrow view. knowledge anyway it's stored is still life affirming. and human electro-chemical reactions are indeed powerful. if you ask about those who then have power over the meek, then i would respond no one but those with other forms of power and 'authority.' for power is self-applied, used willingly for ones own will, hence willpower. knowledge is not defined as a life form, but i know it is renewable and ever changing... the truth of one thing is very changeable just by the act of observing it. knowledge is what is known, it is bare and naked, just so obvious its massiveness can be hard to comprehend at times, as well as its finite size. (matters on scale and intricacy) i am no priest for i say what is known to be, not what in effect has no answers that have a result or proof. or even better a clear definition. but is our only way of obtaining our answers, this is no narrow view... knowledge can be gained and lost. and living is all we know. knowing it is all that can be done once the act and motive is made and made clear... we are things of knowledge and all that is seen, felt, sensed, thought, imagined, learned, and forgotten is knowledge. i am an artist... i am mad!...but i am a quester. i have to take pill's, i go to councilors appointments, i have a psychiatrist, but that does not give madness! my life did, my hardship, my sublimity, my solitude, my overcrowding! but one thing is great in madness and that is the skill obtained in it, and the passion it is afflicted by, it is a love and potency that brews stronger then any char whiskey to date! but remember this; no god will have my passion. i have before, i do every moment i can! but knowledge none the less is enlightening, interesting, and more then just human. i am a harvester of new creations, of my own, so i love what is harvested and made by seekers and questioners. it is a book that is better read and better asked then believed all the way... but some things are proven... they must be seen and watched, what was the Latin saying? 'castidoes est castidoes' or 'watch the watchers.' i disagree, knowledge once found means a depth must be explored in the answer. the birth is a great thing and the renewal of knowledge gifts a continued search. death is certain, constants are certain, laws are certain, matter as an observable is certain, energy and matter having substance is certain as well as the cycle there-in. the way you said it is nihilistic in view, the road does not go strait, there is no sudden end to all things in knowledge, but it is interesting to ask. no one or thing convinced me, not knowing is an admission... but asking is a wise choice for the ones that must know... tell me, if i found out and told everyone would they believe me? most likely not, but it would start the quest in finding it through my findings! no ones power is over ruling me, i am my ruler and i am proud of this! my forcefulness to dance in rain, my gratefulness for hate hence pride, the fire people claim is godly! i have found differently and is MY power... that means it is power over me and my will. I'm richer then you estimate then, I've pondered much. and that would mean i am reborn 3 times a day at the least...

Oleg... i am worried that you may have built this thought up on a delusion, would you at least look at the possibility of that?

then my problem is with your primitive definitions, immortal- 'Not susceptible to death or aging, never dying or growing older.' lots of 'or this' in that definition. as a scientist, immortality is not possible due to expanse. everything is changing constantly so nothing stays the same even on a quantum level... this is proven fact! it may have a imprint in time that 'extra-dimensionally' shows itself to have been, but that is not in the presence of now. life on other planets is more probable then not, so also as a god by definition your meaning is construed as thus; 'A supernatural, typically immortal being with superior powers.' the universe is not immortal, it is beyond the definition of a god and thus not a god. it is powerful but then again it is full of 'stuff' and energy. you are not beyond this definition, you are not a god, you are not immortal, but you also are not obliterated at death... (though if you are immortal please turn yourself into any local research lab so we can find the anomalies and find a cure for freaking cancer, cause it would help i'm sure lol) there is a 'finding truth' and i have been trying to do so for year's... no one book can teach you everything, it is far more hard to understand it, scientists take there time, use there lives doing it and discrediting them is an insult to there lives work, which has no ease. let me make myself clear, religions of the world claim heaven or hell after death, i do not choose nothing i am rather admitting i do not know... what of Shakespeare? have we not gone further then that, and found this is something we no not of?? death is unknown, it is that undiscovered country from which not traveler has returned and even in claim... is just the words of men that claim to know, with great provocation and delusional mannerism, all of which are people with 'messiah' complexes and a wish to put there power in everything! they seek no spiritual enlightenment at all... this i could prove. but instead of conveying my disagreement i will ask you some curiosity questions... if i may for i am very curious as to your answers, please do not take it as me being condescending for i am not, just please... if you know these things for sure telling me would be an enlightenment. A)why does the universe bother existing? B)what mechanism is controlling these universal constants and laws? C)what is the soul? what can have a soul? why are they needed and where do they come from? D)what are these 'immortals' in truth. E)what is god? F)what after death? please give relavent proofs to each and i'll even agree with what can be proven. and lastly: why and how exactly do atheists cause genocide, one geuss is gods wraith... but what is your thought...

lol I'm not THAT naive, my mark of an atheist is not a wish for origin of a god, but the question of the origin of religions, that well.... are made by man, so; false. (bible is a collection of stories and letters made by 'men.') hence any belief, even scientific! is void without weigh-able results, logic dictates that science is the clear one, and that, through atheism, a better understanding be made clear as to what the universe is controlled by... i am a strong atheist no mistake... all the laws and constants are 'effects' you are correct, but observing them is not enough, knowing whats behind them is key! but i do not have lack of proof of a god... i just don't believe in a god... it seems more appealing to me. it is a poorly used word, and a god is not mine to make existent anyway, so there is no point to debating if my belief is on a weaker side, i know it is not. a universe that is enigmatic and has a complex that is very hard to discover is a better and more poetic view... as well as the basis of destiny being false as well to only the point of things being in the 'happening' of now, and that the universe is not set in stone. i like to think i have control of my fate to a degree. and that that complexity is yes, simple, but still so intricate and well formed that it is of undefinability. i didn't say that, maybe i should have spoken in this context: this sounds to me like a man with his arm hugging god hiding from the intensity of the world, doomsaying and spitting on the 'low man' when god is the king of the meek. what of noble blood? and those who say, "we have grown too meek!" or better then that, is those who say, "we can be better! we can overcome man!!" as a doomsayer; 'one who makes dire predictions about the future.' he said he would let us perish, a sign of hate for plant and animal...contempt. these are things that make finality, even if true, doomsaying... for death is not the end even logically. instead he speaks blackly at things that are bright, reaches into that great contempt and say, "there is no good, there is no evil, only contempt!" if he would have said thus it would be clear... but nothing is immortal. any delusion that follows the word 'us' is a declaration of godlihood... this is purely fantasy, the soul has no proof but it must be seen that change of this 'soul' is far more appealing then a constant soul and hate for being human, as it professes. not in general, but sometimes if bent toward an agenda, this was not my point though. i meant i believed in the natural life affirming power, that is by definition chaotic, passionate, and free. parables and such teach me nothing for these things, these things should not be learned for me... i am free to choose, A short narrative illustrating a lesson is too small a thing to show the depth of a lesson learned. reverence and devotion to God is not to ones self, and suffers the act of world-weariness... my only true despised thing. as a man of code, submission means giving into someone else's power when my power is what is needed to reach hieght... not money, not territory, not anything but knowledge. the context of meaning as said was passionate enough to be construed as hate. and i never said anything close to that, i am a man of many things but denial is a void term, gods are perishable, humans use them as said. i am well aware of natural cycles, i am a hermit! though not because of man but because i am curious, and because it is much more interesting going up and down from city to town. thing is it allows me to think. i like the thought of persistence of life... not immortal things i know not of. lol, i will , but i am curious as to Oleg's response, yours was expected i suppose only on the basis that i have no answer... but i did not expect your opinion to be one sided, did you not hear the insultries? i was appealing to his sense of christian integrity as well as acceptance. first i was a tyrant and cause of genocide, then i am just shallow, hollow, and mindless in all i have found... i know the fact but i am here beside myself debating to the wind for his lack of an answer! no worries, i do not damn him for his belief, but i do ask why he has a lack of repose in his manic passion... why omit me to dispose words obviously not to his liking? why bother telling him not to say things so crude as to deliberately belittle my humanity? i'll tell you why... nothing is revolutionary unless true, the delusional sense that atheism causes genocide is one of the reason for ethnic cleansing in the first place, as defined; "The systematic killing of people on the basis of ethnicity, religion, political opinion, social status, or other particularity." now this is usually because this said group feels threatened by an ethnicity, religion, political opinion, social status, or other different group... i am a man of codes, they can be broken, they can be reformed, but no one should die for any of these reasons... i've yet to hear about that, just his 'god' and how evil i am. to make it clear, my concept of evil is not like others, but i have done no wrong by me, but my justice asks why am i the destroyer to Oleg? the law tables he values may be broken in me, but they where mine to break. i ask he come clean to said opinion, and shed light on it, that is all.

As a possibility to this conversation i would like to add that between all I've heard, i never really expressed the fact that science is spiritual as well. in music and other media an increase in a 'new' new age has arisen with a scientific core. its meaning is based on the creations of this universe as known, as well space ambient and more meditative styles leaning toward science and fitness of body and mind that eastern philosophies have found well centered and somewhat trying... a test of concentration and deliberation are also on the rise. lastly more poetic forms of cosmological books have been captivating readers for quite a couple years... no argument... hands down... science is beautiful and when one has the mind to realize how these things work as they happen in real time, you feel a soulfulness that is spiritual. the difference hear is it is not religious due to the variant belief of science enthusiasts... the question here is, does science have underpinnings that begin with atheism? in all I've read from Nietzsche to the later existentialist atheists and scientists... no. i think it is philosophical in nature. postulate! > Mwahahahaha!!!

Oleg Bach, your opinions have been very interesting in the past, and there is a great amount of dedication to your conflictions in other posts... of which i respect. calling atheism mindless... (me, as it where.) no, not really respectable in this context. you see it must be understood to be respected just as i understand the inability to comprehend eternity... what measure? well it is finite in nature to us, so to you this definition may seem slow when infact it is well evolved much like the 'disciples of Christ church.' that is transforming into an open minded people of gathering and commune. the universe was no accident but... atheism is the denial of a god not creation, it is a disagreement of definition, origin, and 'otherworlds' promised to those who are dead. as a strong atheist i protest doomsaying, hate mongering, (as i'm sorry to dare say, you may be doing.) and the collective 'borg-like' voice of piety, parables, and submission. "the plants can perish - so can the human animals??" what??! this is a doom saying and hate to man and plant... your 'devil' is much in your voice and betrays your christian belief! what would Jesus say?! you do not follow your bible well friend, i was christian and i do not say for you to become atheist, just to overlook the defunctory of ire you haste so boldly to. please stay christian for i need the difference! but be christian. i admire your passion, it is a fire i often do not see unless lit! but please you are overspoken... speak truly, for your wild tongue gives us, you, this race... nothing. i do not hate you nor your god, not believing is no hate but a denial of existence... so do not damn me, i am not yours to damn. please be generous and forgiving... and in turn i will be as well. make a point not an insult.

I'm interesting? thank you, but what i know is learned, not stressed... i have the freedom to alter, disregard, or indulge, in any area i choose to. unfortunately I'm too innately curious to just do any of those things without 'tagging' them and trying to know the original. i tend toward original and new things and take great hesitation to taking credit from modifying the old. my point? i agree about the direction of this thread, it was based in atheism and should stay as such... but this change in direction is due to the reasons atheism has such profoundly strong foundations. when it comes to my accusation i was and am confused... your role was professed only after calling it non-expressive in a social environment. i said so because instead of just saying it you invoked hesitation without declaration of your opinion in the strictest sense, so not so much to be accused as being asked. as for Einstein? i love disproving, not criticizing or working for my own goal 'theory'... though i have theories too, it is a team effort and takes time, money, energy, and the initiative to understand when your wrong. spirituality is self obtained not collectively received by a covenant to deities or otherworldly places. and i do get your point, not many agree with me, but i ask for the purpose of your standing, nothing more... what is behind it all. i've heard your argument but not your state of belief. i ask with great intrigue.

its one of the high points of physics! there is a proof in an Australian research lab that two particle's of a boson variant can change polarity from across the globe at the same time when timed by an atomic clock.. a first step of showing 'D-2-branes' in M-theory could exist, which bridges gaps in space from a distance by wrapping around a graviton. (graviton is theoretical but still the atom used was heavy, don't remember what kind it was.) which could mean Einsteins theory of wormholes that are instantly traversable for only short moments may be a possible truth, meaning if energy was passed through one... it could be kept open indefinitely. i mean that's sci-fi gone real! if its true of course. well pictures can only tell so much, getting the meaning of the words from the 'geek gab' might elaborate something a bit clearer... like the gravity thing you spoke of in expanse. yes, but in all the theories we have found this may not be the first time it has happened, the universal momentum of the big bang seems like it only accelerates faster and as one of my favorite subjects, it is found that space is a zero point variant in space time when separated from the 4th dimension, which means time is variant to space and hence gives it energy. the space-energy exchange equation makes it simpler, it is kinda like this amount of energy is needed to make this much space producing this much nuclear energy and/or matter by effect. so static universe = empty space, it is a background and nothing more, but our space as we experience it is positive in appearance due to that extra weave in the fabric called time. so due to its high energy we think that outside that is lower energy (see WMAP) that is forcing itself inward and is pulling gravity apart through all the dark spots so to speak.

well im not saying im an expert just that it is one of my many passions. i am not a person to stop at a subject and keep at a standstill, you see a true need of new wisdom, consciousness, and knowledge is to not stop changing one's roles. i follow many sciences and LQG is one of the more interesting ones, are you trying to be, i don't know, controversial? your motives do not seem clear... is it not counter productive to just say i am small? for me i must know the whys! i must see what causes the thought! i am curious now, why is my stance being lower of such great import? i am small but it changes nothing! i am no small thing to me... since i was 12 i have been studying physics so i am not as readily swayed by simple remarks... please battle my words, is that not why we are here? when we battle we often help one another, give prospective, or better then all, a pause to reason, that gives the mind a new realization. i'm sorry my friend but now you are sounding nihilistic. "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity; opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." Einstein so please form them, for the sake of those who do this for a reason. all that i've wrote, i've learned or asked, nothing with absolute certainty. now i ask you what do you believe?

There is some evidence but nothing concrete in sting theory and LQG. well you see... none of those theories have been experimentally tested. LQG is a matrix network loop explanation for universal gravitation and space-time. what makes it exiting is it does not have extra dimensions. gravity is 'non-renormalizable' in contrast to the strong and weak nuclear interactions of the Standard Model. problem is it replaces the Big Bang theory in a respect by changing it to a 'bounce.' it also opens the thought that forces like gravity can 'bleed' through space-time as a relative effect on mass bodies in this quantum loop matrix. in theory it is said to explain many things standard model particle physics and string theory can't. but because it has its underpinnings in many nonperturbative quantization of diffeomorphism-invariant gauge theories (long one) it has been open to debate as to if the instantaneous potential differential can compensate for dark matter and avoiding tachyons. Making predictions from the theory is very difficult for sim-tech computers to handle. the continuum limit has not been proven or even tested to be accurate in space time because right now no observation's loop quantum gravity makes, goes very far without being held back by its similarities to the Standard Model or general relativity, of which very little has been shown. so the math works but the computers can barely handle it with all the 'human' errors, so trick is we need a new and easier mathematical language to help prove this one is a valid theory. if u did not understand any of that, just ask or look it up and i'll answer whatever cause to be honest most of this i either learned online or learned in class. (oh and empty space means zero point energy as opposed to negative space which is void of energy and only has a variant area.)

humorous? don't insult yourself... the very postulation forebodes the validity in the scientific question, the ultimate 'if' and the question of 'why does the universe bother to exist!' i ask these often, i study them, it is a hard question but when one fills the mind with one relative story, that cosmic story, human existences lights up into life, passion fires into love and death has purpose again... i for one am in-love with this question and i will dance with it as i please tell the day i am mad! love is coalescent... it builds itself and until it cannot help it any longer it ignites, so to me stars hold a kind of love in their processes of life, and death, for the most creative and greatest thing they can do is to die, and give life again... we do the same as when we die we become substance for many things, and our bodies are willing worlds of such life, hence a kind of love in death... no need for otherworldlyness. to me our emotions and self determinations are explainable as another page in that story, we are a mirror to this universe for the experiences of each atom, and quantum interaction is in us... we're are star stuff, and we have grown in a cosmic storm that will not last, but to us it is a forever we are willing to be in, we cannot help ourselves. with all these processes, what defines a man more then man? when he finds something more in himself! and as a star must grow and change... we must, for great men are deliberate and even greater are passionate. love in this is an acceptance of those human traits you speak of so clearly... mine is based on simile and is quite different. but i enjoy it.

nothing that is theory is considered truth, but when we assume things in all 3 tying theories, we find surprising truth in them, like a puzzle; the pieces are not always in order. Einstein is very abstract and his 'E=mc2' equation has been proven. the typical field strength of strong nuclear forces are 100 times the strength of the magnetic force, it is in the 'Non-abelian group' meaning it is not commutative, so i guess if it is... it is so very slowly but i don't think so, the closer to a magnet attracted forces get the stronger the interaction, it is an effect zone that makes things coalesce. gravity for one; the more energy and mass in one area = the stronger the nuclear force hence the formation of celestial bodies. yes he does... i love it, i read allot i noticed, but i'm guessing then you see how religion has too much of a human personality on the definition?... which is very primitive and unchanging. but science has had the definition in study, as far as we are it is the closest thing we have to finding that unified theory... which to us is the definition of the earth, the most divine thing. but no thing like a god, or the definitions there of. that to me is beautiful.

You know the art of science! could never have said it any better... just understand tying the theories together has been nearly imposable, way to much info to take in, which is why so many physicist types are breaking into the field.

Don't diss the man he did good! lol! the theories are far from abandoned, they are being explored and more anomalies are piling up, we have found they happen all the time! area's of defomorphism for instance have been shown to have a possibility of emitting tachyons! which we have been really close to proving in 2002 are a possible ghost partical that 'blinks' that's against relativity.... so yeah that's intense stuff... but the field goes on expanding, M-theory taking lead. LLLLLLOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLL that was hilarious! thanks for that... wake up call to some... ummmm magnetism is a strong nuclear force and as all the forces, constant's, and laws... are not perpetual, the effect they have on matter and energy puts perpetuality on things like coalescence in gauss and strong photogenic emissions on nuclear reactive black body state plasma's... also a perpetual action of stars. http://www.leaderu.com/offices/schaefer/docs/bigbang.html# sorry i don't know how to do the link thing... but he makes your point as well, also look into the book 'the universe is a green dragon' it explains a very good reason why some or allot of people think the universe, if in rewind, does not point out to a god but a cause. god, as defined is too simple an explanation, whatever is out there is far more then the definitive destiny holder and dice roller Einstein and the other 'trying-to-define' communities make it out to be. look at the global definition of a god and i'm sure you'll see on what page i stand, don't expect you to agree but i hope you to appreciate my stance. i'm certain whatever is; has intelligence... an intelligent cosmos does not = god. so i know this intelligence is real because of what i've seen in quantum physics... i don't believe it is godhood or life for that matter, but instead a complex build of structured universe and beyond... kinda like the downward spiral effect... how can it be non intelligent? it was not mapped but 'fell into place' as the effects are mechanically sound, see that as seen by a physicist, an artist, and a philosopher universally and you have your answer... it is far more then human... our belief is human.

oh believe me i am as well, but the best measure of effect's are mostly not observable, haven't got that far yet, hence the field has been expanding into ways of seeing what causes some quantified effect in the observable field... has to do with particle projection in any area of interaction, you see no matter how simple something is it is theorized that there are complex quantum interactions going on, seeing them is the problem because they a SOOOOO small, so using atom smashers and particle accelerators we are seeing for the first time 'lite-up' observable quantum fields... so Quantum Consciousness as meaning we are tied in some quantum level to the universe would be so cool and a beautiful theory. that is so true its not even funny... even though i'm laughing it would take so many years to do this, trick here is finding something that can saturate the brain with energy that can pick up microbial interaction's in real time without killing the subject! i'd put myself on the line to test it if i heard it was not lethally radioactive to organic matter. science = not knowing the time and screaming at the edge of your seat ripping your hair out because of one wrong number... 57 pages back...

Allowed? it was revolted into being! that freedom was not there's to be granted for we are all free! when Christians came into Rome and said, 'there is only one god,' that was the most godless thing to them! and those gods died. now god must be overcome, i must overcome my personal god to become better then i am... i do not ask you to, i tell you that i must! just to clarify my Nietzschian affliction, my passion is in saying your very claim is not of a christian origin but one that you observed... Christians are not targeted by me, nor existentialism. no atheist is killing a christian unless that said atheist (which could be any other religion and still kill) is predisposed to violent tendencies, atheism means you don't believe not that you eat babies lol. i certainly am not a vial, terrible person. i am sarcastic, quick witted, loving, random, passionate, and free. i have more faults that are place holders of my attributes but i am the me i want to be, does that make me a killer? don't be absurd... unless revolutionary and true it is frivolous. christian morals did not make me, and Christians... are not the only peaceful people, as well atheists are not a people, Christians are. atheism will never 'run' the world or rule it, most seek to find knowledge. and no one will destroy my belief, i group no one and i care not of the religion of politician's, believe what they want, do there job, and i support them. to go along with that i take offense to calling atheism a 'cause and all-end perpetuator of genocide,' i am a strong supporter of the US declaring the Armenian genocide true. as well as actively helping in Dufar to stop the current one. atheism does not say anything about an individual because it leaves them open to many personal beliefs... as the ones i have, for i am no modification of a belief i am an originator of my own. i take no responsibility of any genocide. i only take responability for my own actions, i do not kill as said. no worries though, i don't have issue, still know that i am no evil man. i respect your belief as I'd expect no different! so eat, drink, and be marry! for madness is far more interesting! hahahaha

offend? no it's practically imposable... i never disagreed though. you do raise a good point that is awesomely brutal and honest of that 'original' non-modification of your so called over written authority. we are all idiots for thinking so strictly but i LOVE putting out thought and theories and such to take up my time... you see though it may not matter i am a strict atheist but i am an existentialist (not nihilisticly mind you either,) and the bias you mention just is not there! but i appreciate your honest claim to my offence, if only my mom was as outrageous. your point is so, jagged yet stuck outside a free floating theoretical thought i can't help but elaborate on some part of my previous points: you see i am a physics buff, i love science, and in the field of philosophy and art is the understanding that what can be explained is perpetual in nature as well relative... with terms and definitions accompanied that set up a large look into areas of science none would otherwise look at. QED is one, it explores a wave function duality that is awesome and 'string like' in origin (see string theory) yet how can it be stated these have no effect on reality if you can state our perceived reality has no effect on any in-large function, even in quanta which is proven! you see nor fate or coincidence exist, they are about apart of the same thing: a set of absolute randomness that perpetuates a pattern to infinity. we are something and that purpose may not be god given but in my eye's is a bridge to a complexity that even now is in study... the M-theory and such makes it beautiful. no western or other religion is correct it is just plain, so without any more waste of time the application of human experience is relative to true observable effects and even in cosmology this truth is unmistakable... though you do have a keen knowledge of those stubborn who question nothing but what facts are found, proven, on explainable. psychology would agree with your side in measure. oh well though, they stop us from getting cocky. disagree freely please. this is getting fun!

first off bravo! i love the book 'Brain Rule's' by John J. Medina because most of his work is relavent here. as well i have learned to coupe with derealization but thanks for the concern. and i am glad you point out what you did. but neurons are being effected differently by perception and the following chemical correspondence's and interactions, changing ones disposition to any number of untold actions. though still apparent when mapped by a computer that copies the neural 'imprint' of that activity, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle would dictate that we cannot know something like position and momentum of an electron at the same time. only a likely area of position (usually found in QED) hence those distinctive patterns have a predisposed pattern that can be predicted but not known precisely. my point was the brain interpretation is very reflective on experience and what is 'taken in,' chemical balances change accordingly. it is not unlikely that a repeated action against a chemical process will imbalance it, or change it completely. so that gives light to my next point: we reflect much of those senses, and can see that reality as a whole does have a separation of perceived things inside brain function, reality is not just those functions. giving rise to separation of our sense of self, others, and the world is philosophical hearsay! but on the other hand our chemical understanding and physical understanding of universal processes opens the debate that 'soul' has to do with all, so is in a way real. it may be a invalid point but anything based on packets of stable information has to have form. not much, it is just an exploration of depth not science of the 'soul.' the study of science and social sciences as well as philosophy only includes what is understandable, so the atheistic view is preferred by my personally, cause meditative arts and 'none otherworldlyness' don't contradict one another. still though there is practicality, these things are separate from the original point, if you get what i mean.

well this phenomena has been linked to DMT a chemical in the brain that helps induce vivid dreams. near death and real death both have a chemical difference, though NDE as studied has been show to be extra visual and extraordinarily vivid.