DarkAngel_

i would guess, that the intent of any one people, are from a complex of interactions to the future, as in that the initiative to do, from will, comes from a collective agreement from emotional responses sent by commonality, but that would mean a collective cultural complex is present, but the culture is divided by birthing alone, and is becoming more questionable. so i believe from then to now, finite existences is truth, but the step to the end or means to the end would require a strong will to that end, or as it might have been if mankind can break past limitation, past an end and to rebirth, not as nihilism, but as gradual recreation of these complexes into individual minds, i'd like to call that an 'over mind,' or 'common tongue.' That would be a collective of individual complexes, as one person of many. i know a little of his philosiphy and might agree, but in truth i never read any of his books, suggestion?

also, if anyone is interested in faster then light travel, which might i add could be benifical in finding truth, look up: 1. Cherenkov Effect 2. Third Party Observers 3. Shadows and Light Spots 4. Rigid Bodies 5. Phase Velocity 6. Superluminal Galaxies 7. Relativistic Rocket 8. Speed of Gravity 9. EPR Paradox 10. Virtual Photons 11. Quantum Tunnelling 12. Casimir Effect 13. Expansion of the Universe 14. The moon revolves round my head faster than light! 15. What Does Faster Than Light Mean? 16. The Infinite Energy Argument 17. Quantum Field Theory 18. Grandfather Paradox 19. Tachyons 20. Worm Holes 21. Warp Drives all of these are very interesting, and can be looked up at: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Rela...ight/FTL.html#1 i love this site, i think its a bit old but, it's still cool.

i promised not to shoot any 1 theory down, but why do you all follow 1 theory and not make one more true to you? the scale of belief in the masses, does indeed separate us into 'war tribes' if that is what you'd like to call it, the organized complex of an 'underground' religion, is quite hostile, like early Satanic and Pagan ritualism, now i believe they have changed, but i also see Christian/Catholic based religions branching off, picketing for oblivious reasons that make them seem hostile! has mankind become broken? alas, i see that in the complex society we choose to live in today, one side will get the motivation and inspiration to make a terrible move, and all the organized faiths will fight to their death, pride and belt, furry and courage, all down, down further into a broken world, i smile at a word unspoken, in other words it's hard for a believer to stay quit, but i will, who would not take up arms against evil? and good... and scream bloody murder as they do so?

So? It's his own analysis! That's his belief! Practically everyone can create or make up their own theory. Dark Angel has his own theory! He can write and promote his own theory.....get published...make money! Does that make it an absolute truth? No. And what's he on about scaffolds? How many of those who marched proudly on the scaffold had done so without believing in a God? What does he know what drove the dignity and courage of those who walked to their deaths? Who do you think is the one most likely to march on to death with dignity, courage and pride...the one who thinks there's something that awaits him on the other side...or the one who believes after that rope snaps his neck, it means kaput! I got to admit...he is poetic. Romantically so. thank you! thats exactly what i was trying to say, i made a theory, you all made theories, men 1000 years ago made theories, that we are all wrong cant be so, i geuss what i'm asking is for kinship in the finding of the truth! so, is science the proof of existance in time? or are we to follow 'the path of roses' so to speak... and i'd agree, it is very poetic indeed!

anyone have a 'event' of belief of god? i could help explain them to you, it wouldn't ruin it i'm sure, like 3 years ago i saw messages in the clouds, how bout you? also i am asking for any volenteers for research, we all research what we want; present the facts and start from there, come on, it'll be fun!

about me not speaking "correctly" i do it quite intensionally, look at the way they are said and they can mean more. otherwords i'm trying to say it, as if i really was saying it, kinda hard... but also; my spelling sucks. good vocab, but forgetful of the use of words. suck at grammer. good at poetry. can only speak english,(american) my point of this post is to find the truth, to ()#!! with our personal disagreements!' how about volitires? who is willing to do reasearch on the truth, back to front, anyone wish to join me on my hunt? the qeustion is, how much do we know of how we are here? and if you have a theory, let loose! i love brainstorming!!

ok... we are just shooting points of 'IM RIGHT' and 'what if im right' so what is'nt real? to me the god of the many books out their is most likely not the real god, or there is no god at all. the qeustion leads to how far you might go in your faith, without science. (which would be unfortunate) we cant just simply believe and i'm sure you can't convince us of this, or us you. so, how about you give us science, we understand metaphor too so please let loose your artistic muse, but no more bad-bashing, i hate a debate when it's become useless! brainstorm: where did we come from on earth, asia? europe? brainstorm the design of mankind: the golden ratio compaired to math on other theories, the construct of a simple program 'built' into our DNA. (or something like that) brainstorm: is what you say a truth? or a shot in the dark? (no more please, i cant stand this 'well i'm right and your wrong!" nonsense) so, please no more, my theory was to begin the topic: 'What if,' and 'Well maybe,' 'I disagree because,' or ''ok then how about this', can we not be assertive in this argument? i at a time said god does not exist, now i say he could, but to more then your books say! so please be scilent, your raving histarics and condridictions, you waning babies! i respect you enough to know that this will lead now where! if you know nothing and am ignorent, go to wikipedia, their you can look for your self, as for me, i'm reading the bible and studying world religion and histroy, thank you and please, good luck.

ok, who can agree on this; 1: no one is telling the truth because they do not know the truth. 2:many unexplained events, as fascinating as they are, are being ignored in science and religion. 3: that we should FIND the truth, using science, instinct, philosophy and the willingness to learn. 4: that if we do not find a 'crumb' of the truth, we will go mad. 5: that for some odd reason, liberals like blue cheese? my point is, you all are just finding a contradiction to everything everyone is saying. can we agree that we have not found truth and so shoul we search for it? i want this post to STAY ON TOPIC. now from truth, religious peoples; history results to the future, but is not the future, no more guesses, we need hard stone fact to find the truth, and no, sorry, a 'your truth' does not count. (no more contradicting statements to valid points please) Science people's; though events current looked at are more relevant, in the past we may learn of a history we never knew, a part of our meaning lying in our past, so no more condescendence, and make relative points to truth or theory based on everyone. (no more contradicting statements to you too, peoples) i'm not ordering this, i am no boss, i just would like to see some brainstorming on the truth of the matter, not complex hypocritical slurrs and meaning. (poetry does not count) so...ya...that’s it.

So let me get this straight: in your world - Jesus is reduced to a charlatan, as are the people who witnessed his miracles, - everyone who has ever had a vision or seen/felt a presence of God are nuts, - all mediums and psychics are bogus, and - every religion is wrong. Hmm, centuries of belief out the window. Thanks for clearing that up for us. though not pertaining to me: - Jesus is reduced to a charlatan, as are the people who witnessed his miracles, no, he was in his greatness, ahead of the herd. - everyone who has ever had a vision or seen/felt a presence of God are nuts, no, unexplained, i could tell you why... - all mediums and psychics are bogus also unexplained and very interesting might i add - every religion is wrong. yes, the truth would be true to everyone, you see "art" is in the eye of the beholder, not truth.

So let me get this straight: in your world - Jesus is reduced to a charlatan, as are the people who witnessed his miracles, - everyone who has ever had a vision or seen/felt a presence of God are nuts, - all mediums and psychics are bogus, and - every religion is wrong. Hmm, centuries of belief out the window. Thanks for clearing that up for us. As Karl Marx said, "Religion is the opiate of the masses." (Waiting for the accusations of being a Commie) All those centuries of belief were based on simple people trying to understand the world, and falling back on a paternalistic safety net. (Now I'm a feminist Commie) God reminds me of another fairy tale figure you may be familiar with around this time of year. You know, "He sees you when you're sleeping, He knows when you're awake, He knows if you've been bad or good so be good for goodness sake." Remember boys and girls, if you are really good you will get rewarded, but if you are bad......... oh dear, this is bad, a reward in death? how morbid, i wish to exist in life! do not be the black glove that slopes the babies heads, i am godless, remeber that for the others as well...

No one. They were created spontaneously. It's much 'easier' for me to believe that protons, electrons, neutrons etc. were created out of nothing, then came together to form atoms, which came together to form molecules, which came together to form molecules that are capable of self-replication, which formed life than it is to believe that God was created out of nothing. Both theories have to explain how the original materials of the Universe came about, it's just 'simpler' to explain the formation of simple matter than it is to explain the formation of some super intelligent being. its not that believing in a god is hard, its just silly. to me at least. maybe their is a god, but i keep raving! not as it is worshiped!!

Who created the original materials that initiated the evolution process? did you read my theory?? if you mean the energies then please, enlighten us. if you mean to say god made matter, then i'd say that we would need a basis of science, as in a value to observe, any suggestions?

also betsy, let me simplifiy it, believe me, i barely understood it myself, lol! as uncharged or unchanged energy-'inert' energy (as in kinetics or a still object before movement) is swept up by an event (like the big bang) energy spirals out of control and the chaos of the event is so powerful, it changes the energies into other energies similar to the first, they link together and form a 'reflection' or imprint of the event, or the 'downward spiral' as a matrix of interacting energies, (like a whole bunch of magnets rejecting and attracting eachother, in the form of a tree) hence are super-charged and then cause effects to the 'inert' energy around them, linking the matrix to other forms of energy.(like playing marbles with 100 sets and seeing where they clump together, the matrixes interaction is like the braker ball) then as it becomes too massive in its energy, it collapses into a form of matter,(like streeching rubber to far, the recoil is that it forms into a ball) as at first it was 1 dimensional, or 2 points in the form of a string or matrix, then forms into a 0 dimensional object, or a focused point in space (atomic and subatomic) but as similar the energy was in the matrix, only a few kinds of matter where made,(like cooking with only flour and sugar) so the subatomic effect was to spiral into an organized form, or to compress (like pushing a car through mud, the imprint and effect of the motion are still there) then doing the same to atomic particles, or elements that then turned out many more forms of matter that had a better chance of interaction and reaction (like in chemistry) which then spun these atoms into masses that then spun complex singular hyper-reactive objects that also mimicked the event, or us. (DNA is nick named the 'downward spiral')

which would mean it does not exist, there for cannot exist.

oh i know! i saw a documentery on this, the hole: "i will take the sickness of the devil out a ya!" thing. or are you talking about the "all faith" church at the hospital, or the death morning by rejoice. I'm talking about this. And if I'm not mistaken, our healthcare cover this now, or there was a petition to have it recognized and covered. "A. Holistic Healing is a term that can be easily interchangeable with many other names commonly used in the healing community such as: • Alternative Medicine • Complementary Medicine • Holistic Health • Integrative Medicine Holistic or "wholistic" Healing approaches all parts of the individual, not just the physical aspect of a person where manifested illnesses are often most apparent. Although it may very well be the physical component of a person that people more easily recognize when problems arise through its discomfort or PAIN signals; the mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects of ourselves also indicate imbalances and dis-ease . No aspect (mind, body, spirit, or emotions) of a person is overlooked when an holistic treatment is sought. Types of Holistic Healing Therapies and Treatments Aromatherapy, Ayurveda medicine, natural diet, exercise, counseling, herbal remedies, homeopathy, acupuncture, naturopathic medicine, bodywork, energy-based therapies, prayerful intention, and traditional Chinese medicine. Explore the Holistic Therapies Index to learn about these therapies and others." http://healing.about.com/od/faq/f/holistic.htm In your previous posts, you have advocated strongly to question...not to be "mindless." Cybercoma had talked of his truth, his belief being in the scientific field...and his contempt for religious beliefs. All I did was address both your points together. I guess if some people can accept psychology, including some psycho-babbles that come along with it, why would their mind be closed to something like faith? Dark Angel, you urge us to question. Well, I'm sort of questioning....or contemplating...that there could be something more that Christ was telling us. If He came as a man, then why would He be giving demonstrations of god-like feats such as walking on water, or healing the sick? I never did know much of holistic healing, but in that link...there is also a therapy that's called "radical forgiveness." Forgiveness is one of the big message of Christ. Forgiving us as we forgive others. When He said, "I am the Way." Maybe it means MORE THAN JUST the way to gain the entry to heaven. Anyway, what about your chiropractor? Or those massage therapist? Can they not be called your modern-day "healers?" Look ma, no instruments! Just my bare hands! Science and faith seem to be merging. There is nothing conclusive...we cannot just dismiss religious faith as balderash! We'll have to fully understands our own selves, our inner selves, our minds....what the human's FULL potential can be. What's so disturbing about that? At least the attempt at conversion was happening in a hospital...not in the middle of a football field. Aren't you, yourself, attempting to "convert" us? I wouldn't call that a "division." In fact...the priest was attempting at unification. well ya know, i don't believe i wish to convert you, i wish to show you something along with what you believe, i don't think i ever showed you did i? well to the point of Jesus camp, that is all their being shown... also we've not proven Jesus walked on water, or any of those events furthermore. also the bible was not righten by a historian (we actually don't know), so the proverbs in the bible are inconclusive in relation to fact! also i do believe that as the rock hard god loving communities takes hold of the center base of politics, it will divide us into a religous coo! and it seems some people are rounding up the troops, if you get my meaning. ok did anyone read the R.J. Hollingdale translation of 'Thus spoke Zarathustra?' if you go into the woods and wait for danger, once it comes tell me how it feels. ha ha.....just joking, but you'll feel the animal, that is the pull to the past. this book tells of mental evolution, the jump or the crossing over the bridge between man and 'superman' or something greater then man. Some call this book a cry of nihilism, but that’s untrue, and a misinterpretation of the book, all he is saying is that the points of moral values are becoming too common in situational mannerisms, and that our emotional extreme’s can be satisfied with a individual understanding of your own humanity. That as a thought of a god exists is a far cry from truth, that in fact the projection of a human need is being filled with a god. He speaks of a human need for freedom, which is mistaken for anti-state or anarchism, but in fact is an organization of understanding and boundaries that, as a person, you can bend and build at will, that it is our will that made this all possible and that would make us more then we are. Also it’s not my bible I don’t speak behind it, I don’t speak ahead of it, it speaks beside me, so I guess I agree with the book, but there is more to it then you can read, haven’t you felt emotions without a name? emotions that are strong and deep and unexplained? Well in a part of self delusion is an understanding of yourself (been there, done that.) but past the delusion outside of you is the inner delusion, that thing you call a mind or self image of your perceptions. Past that is a focus on reality, and past that… science! Which for me is the finding of truth similar to the minds that you all quote, they used science, not as a term! Or as the name! but the act!!!

ummm... i am a theoretical physicist, not good at math but i got friends that help me out, and actually 'evolution' is more probable, the thing is, its very broad so hard to get a mathematical standing point to start from, but the theory i just specified is a good example of energy matrixing or the conversion of 'still' energy into matter. not easy, but if you want me to explain a probable god i will... read it from the age of 4 (bed time stories) tell 14, i don't remember a load of it, but i know of what i felt in it's teachings, every morning i'd pray, walk outside and watch a sun rise. i asked god every day the questions i do know, i tryed to find them on my own, i questioned my faith to strengthen it, i went as far as to try to find god in me! but it is not in me as much as it is by me, i adopted those morals and in a sense, he was morally real, but it was no truth, you see i had a conflict with god: freedom, i wanted to die at my time once done. i wanted to be individual, 'the one' but i saw that hole unfilled in me so i read 'Thus Spoke Zarathustra' and found a freedom that is so, REAL! and now my passions are back, i don't have to be happy to be complete, and that is when you can see a rainy day and still be yourself, that the situation is separate from the moral, i wish to be free of your moral gods, i am becoming. and that is good health. in history, all the great minds turned to their own mind, and did so in the ways of science! did you ever hear Da Vinci say "he said so!"? no, and i look to science for truth, not history. but corporations are damning science's prestige with lies and public agenda, i will have a stop to it, and have the resources to find truth amongst rabble, but the bible never told me the truth, now i must find it, but why on my own? the truth would be true to everyone! why resist its finding? in science, a mistake is more of a lesson then a success i agree cybecoma, it is beautiful to understand something, but even more beautiful if you come to understand it on your own! so every day i make a note: don't trust any 1 word, find it out your own, even science has lie's and i have seen them! in my theory i can now look at the reality of energy matrixing, and in this theory their is potential, and a flaw, what caused the chain reaction?

James Randi. Mind you, I wasn't talking about those slap-on-the-forehead kind of faith-healing. I'm thinking along the lines of holistic healing...which are being used now, although I don't know how well they do. oh i know! i saw a documentery on this, the hole: "i will take the sickness of the devil out a ya!" thing. or are you talking about the "all faith" church at the hospital, or the death morning by rejoice. i saw about a year back a disterbing event, in the hospital a preist trying to convert a islam family. so the hole holy healing thing is very bright, but it divides us...

Einsteinian God -- the universe -- is not God in the sense of religion, where an entity lives in the sky answering prayers. as metaphor, the universe is our carver so in a sense others may call it 'god'. i am atheist and would agree, but i love man too much to just say he is wrong, so would you not speak to their pride instead of against it? it is the way we find truth, help me out: what is your truth and THE truth. i told you my possible truth, but indeed i look and see that what is so, is so, and in turn is my reality. the truth is whats in front of me. also i reformed my theory: where ever a space exists, something must exist in it, whether it be black emptiness, or a galaxy of stars. that in universal intelligence is a binding between what there is, and can be, that nothingness cannot exist, and that as a universal language, only the most basic form of energy can be arranged or communicated freely, so in my theory, that something comes from the organization of energy into matter in space, as an event of change or perpetual motion occurs in energy, it causes chain reactions to change the energy outside of it to form into strings or 1 dimensional lines of energy, and as the effect reacts with other energy, it creates similar strings in effect that link together in the form of a matrix or "downward spiral", and is a destabilization in 'inert' energy, and as the effect then takes place and branches off, it becomes a little different each time, and as the variety grows the interaction of these strings become more susceptible to an effect or result, in that effect it also damages or changes other strings and branches the matrix into 'Y' or a split between 1 energy into 2. the points between matrixes are 1 dimensional, and i do not know the math on it, but any 2 points together i believe make a 0 dimensional point in space, so as this spiral of energy collapses it turns those points into matter, that as the reaction broadens may have some how branched the matrix into a totally different form of matter, until of course, many kinds of matter are expanded in their properties, and as the change was so huge the matter that was changed from energy, is then capable of its own atomic properties, and so then can interact, changing and bonding with the other forms of matter to make molecules, which then do the same to form raw elements, that once put into those reactions and interactions cause effects in organization, and the reaction becomes more large, as in chemistry, and like the event that originally took place, the reorganized forms of chemicals form together and hold the events of this chaos and reorganize, then as larger objects that all fit and fall into place hence making other parts in the shape of a "downward spiral" or "DNA" that store this information chemically and reorganize that material into a working matrix, our human form.

i put this as a reply to be honest, but it had a 'new topic' feel. this is my scientific basis for the creation of everything in its complexity, (its complicated, and most likely wrong) where ever a space exists, something must exist in it, whether it be black emptiness, or a galaxy of stars. that in universal intelligence is a binding between what there is, and can be, and that as a universal language, only the most basic form of energy can be arranged freely or communicated with the same meaning, so in my theory, that something comes from the organization of energy into matter in space, as an event of change or perpetual motion occures, as energy, causes chain reactions to change the energy outside of it to form into strings or 1 dimensional lines of energy, and as the effect reacts with other energy, it creates similar strings in effect that link together. this is a "downward spiral" and is a form of chaos, or destabilization in 'inert' energy, as an effect then takes place and branches off, it becomes a little different each time, and as the variety grows the interaction of these strings become more susceptible to an effect or result, in that effect it also damages or changes other strings and branches the matrix into 'Y' or a split between 1 energy into 2. the points between matrixes are 1 dimensional, and i do not know the math on it, but any 2 points together i believe make a 0 dimensional point in space, so as this spiral of energy collapses it turns those points into matter, that as the reaction broadens may have some how branched the matrix into a totally different form of matter, until of course, many kinds of matter are expanded in their properties, and as the change was so huge the matter that was changed from energy, is then capable of its own atomic properties, and so then can interact, changing and bonding with the other forms of matter to make molecules, which then do the same to form raw elements, that once put into those reactions and interactions cause effects in organization, and the reaction becomes more elemental, as in chemistry, and like the event that originally took place, the reorganized forms of chemicals form together and hold the events of this chaos and reorganize, then as larger objects that all fit and fall into place hence making other parts in the shape of a "downward spiral" or "DNA" that store this information chemically and reorganize that material into a working matrix, our human form. the 'energy string matrixing' theory ...gotta love it. maybe god did make us in his image... hence the universe is our sculptor. what do you think of it? and what is your belief?

nothing cannot exist... that is 1 fact me and several scientist types can agree with...

moved

"it is not that i am truthful, but that i prefer truth" this is the priest that claims vision. "every event is proceeded by prophecy, but without the hero, their is no event..." this is for the individual, who as fluidity fills the cup of destiny, "a destiny fulfilled is 1 less empty cup." And this is the will to destiny, not to me but all that search for things greater then themselves! "truth is true, not to be as reality painted dry, the only way to truth is to see it for yourself!" that is what the father of a god teaches him, and is reason for belief. their is no hero for this passing, no destiny to fill, no gloom to overcome or unknown truth we must uncover, we choose too. that which is here is what is seen in our realm and is our only stand, our only perception. "we stand in awe before that which is not seen." that's what is greater then us. at last this is the human mind, the phantom... in all reality 1 rule applies, we cannot trust ourselves, so why then call yourself the seer and knower? "to ME" is your claim, "to US" you all say together, but you have no proof, you see that is the divination of faith, to believe without proof, that is not always truth. But judgment. we crave an ending, there is more glory in an end then the pride of a life, even once a life fails. years back i had a mental break down, i was hopeless, where as with faith you receive hope. my reason for wanting death was diffrent... but the feeling is the same.

i like the tea pot, it is very funny, and also, i am scientific as well, this mind hood of reason does not make me believe science can prove everything, but that i with science can help explain things, it just takes longer, it is a way of seeing that does not require faith. let me explain: today i saw that as a finger pointed up goes down forward, it becomes smaller, as in distance, so i presumed that the arch of an objects movement is the image of size, that matter is in fact a complex string of points that are only visible in a falling arch. i experimented by throwing a ball, it too had an arch, but i noticed it was of gravity, so in fact the distance was a change in matter, in that it moved so in effect had the energy to land at a velocity = or greater to the arch angle. i did not expect this, and asked many if this was so, but i was proven wrong and today am at it again, i qeustion to the end, i expected no one result, while faith is more hope to a result, that is fortold, read below to see some quotes i made and got from various places. remember that in the cerebral cortex, the imagination has a separate part to you calculation and deduction, though they are not limited to their bounds.

in all that is known, gods are not, so god may exist, but not as he is worshiped. past man may be the build of this great carver, past man is that sculpture, but i see words by men describing god, as betsy said: 'we all have our translations of the bible' i think it is the translation of a god, i do not put faith in the unknown. so i believe in no god. Would you define reality as a god?

moved