Hudson Jones

Another example of Israel's apartheid policy: Since 1994, when settler Baruch Goldstein massacred Moslem worshipers in the Tomb of the Patriarchs, the Israeli military has employed a "policy of separation" in Hebron. This is implemented primarily through severe restrictions on Palestinian movement in downtown Hebron, where most Israeli settlement outposts are located. Lately the military has further entrenched this policy by building a fence dividing a central street in half and only allowing Jews to use the paved side of the street while Palestinians must use a rough, unpaved passage.

As my friend would say: "Show proof or GTFO."

Sure. It happens in some Arab countries, in some African, in some Latin countries and in Asian countries. So, uh, you have a point?

The fact that crazy methods have been attempted and used by the CIA means that they are capable of using it and it's not batshit crazy to think that the CIA would try to kill an undesired leader by using cancer producing poison. I posted from the first link I saw and it was from Veterans Today. I didn't look at the sources of the article, because I don't think there is a need to prove to anyone, anything that is already documented. I did look up CIA's well-documented methods of assassination attempts of Chavez' best pal, Castro and many others around the world. Any person who has looked at this information would conclude that it's quite reasonable to assume that the CIA could be behind something like this. I know it's not fun talking about these things you would usually associate with movies, but they happen:

The fact that they have a history of assassinating or attempting to assassinate undesired people, using many different methods, makes what you said earlier about this being "batshit crazy accusation", illogical, irrational and does not correspond with reality. Oh and this: In 1975, during the Church Committee hearings, the existence of a secret assassination weapon came to light. The CIA had developed a poison that caused the victim to have an immediate heart attack. This poison could be frozen into the shape of a dart and then fired at high speed from a pistol. The gun was capable of shooting the icy projectile with enough speed that the dart would go right through the clothes of the target and leave just a tiny red mark. The answer to the question – Can you give a person cancer – is yes. After nearly 80 years of research and development there is now a way to simulate a real heart attack and to give a healthy person cancer. Both have been used as a means of assassination. Only a very skilled pathologist, who knew exactly what to look for at an autopsy, could distinguish an assassination induced heart attack or cancer from the real thing. Link

You would think that these things only happen in third world countries, but "The only democracy in the middle east" as they like to call themselves has again failed to act like a true democracy. Arresting children in the middle of the night, beating them, questionable interrogation tactics and of course, holding them in detention without access to lawyers. These are some of the tactics documented by UNICEF, which Israel commits towards minors. According to UNICEF, it has documented “examples of practices that amount to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment according to the Convention on the Rights of the Child and the Convention against Torture.” Israeli sources have declined to comment on the findings at the moment. The UNICEF report states that it is based on more than 400 cases since 2009, legal papers, reports by governmental and non-governmental groups, and interviews with Palestinian minors, and Israeli and Palestinian officials and attorneys. Link

Based on history, it is reasonable to think that U.S. could be behind assassinating and killing the undesired Latin American leader. One of the reasons there have been so many attempts on his life is that he has been in power for so long. Attempts to kill Castro began almost immediately after the 1959 revolution, which brought him to power. In 1961, when Cuban exiles with the backing of the US government tried to overthrow him in the Bay of Pigs fiasco, the aim was to assassinate Fidel and Raul Castro and Che Guevara. Two years later, on the day that President Kennedy was assassinated, an agent who had been given a pen-syringe in Paris was sent to kill Castro, but failed. On one occasion, a former lover was recruited to kill him, according to Peter Moore, producer of the new film. The woman was given poison pills by the CIA, and she hid them in her cold cream jar. But the pills melted and she decided that, all things considered, putting cold cream in Castro's mouth while he slept was a bad idea. According to this woman, Castro had already guessed that she was aiming to kill him and he duly offered her his own pistol. "I can't do it, Fidel," she told him. No one apparently could. This former lover is far from the only person to have failed to poison Castro: at one point the CIA prepared bacterial poisons to be placed in Castro's hand-kerchief or in his tea and coffee, but nothing came of it. A CIA poison pill had to be abandoned when it failed to disintegrate in water during tests. The most recent serious assassination attempt that we know of came in 2000 when Castro was due to visit Panama. A plot was hatched to put 200lb (90kg) of high explosives under the podium where he was due to speak. That time, Castro's personal security team carried out their own checks on the scene, and helped to abort the plot. Four men, including Luis Posada, a veteran Cuban exile and former CIA operative, were jailed as a result, but they were later given a pardon and released from jail. Link

You can also look at U.S.' involvement in Latin America. U.S. has a very ugly history of involvement there. They were also behind the attempted and failed coup in 2006, in Venezuela. It's astonishing that AW tries to somehow pretend that Chavez shouldn't have been paranoid about U.S.' intentions.

What's next? The claim that Chavez wasn't really born in Venezuela? Why are people so eager to paint someone to be something they're not? Wasn't Chavez democratically elected by the Venezuelan people? Weren't the elections monitored and the election process found to be one of the best in the world? Didn't Venezuela's living standards dramatically improve under Chavez? You don't hear that from people who try to paint Venezuela under Chavez as a lawless, communist dictatorship. Since 2004, after the failed, American-backed coup, under Chavez: poverty has been cut in half and extreme poverty by 70%. And this measures only cash income. Millions have access to healthcare for the first time, and college enrolment has doubled, with free tuition for many students. Inequality has also been considerably reduced. By contrast, the two decades that preceded Chávez amount to one of the worst economic failures in Latin America, with real income per person actually falling by 14% between 1980 and 1998. Link Why is there a need for some people to paint a different picture? Is it ignorance? Or is it a need to deceit people? If so, what is the agenda?

An individual's opinion, who has not worked on any reports in israel or the occupied territories, who is in an organization made up of thousands of people does not represent the organization's opinion. Especially after the organization distanced itself from his opinion. Has he made these comments before becoming the head of finland's branch? Does calling a country 'scum' warrant the firing of a person? Even if the person has nothing to do with that country, region or any reports that come out of it? Really? Amnesty International said that "Hundreds/Thousands" were dead in Jenin? Please provide proof of this. If anything, Amnesty International failed to follow up on reports about Jenin, where Dr. Derrick Pounder, who works with AI, said, after a visit to Jenin, that there was a “prima facie case for war crimes.” AI failed to even do a report on Jenin. If anything, they succumbed to pressure from the U.S. and Israel and failed in what they're supposed to do. So you're never happy. If the organization doesn't respond to the issue, they're supporting it. If the organization does respond to the issue, they're trying to cover itself up and 'put a positive spin on itself' ? Do you realize that less than 4% of AI reports involve Israel? Think about that for a bit. I never said the Palestinian official/doctor's conclusion from the report were final. I am interested in an independent investigation to see what happened to the prisoner who died in the hands of Israel. We will see if Israel will agree to this. They have a long history of not cooperating and allowing independent reports when it comes to questionable circumstances. I am saying that the situations are much different and for you to try to draw a parallel or make blanket, superficial statements is not going to work. In one, you have a paid lobbyist who was never part of any research or report on Gaza, and who was never in Gaza, making general comments about how it's not a war crime to kill civilians and then you have another person, a Palestinan official/doctor who, from an autopsy conducted in Israel, with others present, stated that the death of a prisoner was not due to a heart attack as Israel previously said (who is now backtracking saying it wasn't a heart attack), and that the bruises to many parts of his body show that the prisoner was tortured, which led to his death.

I do sense the sarcasm, but really; Wasn't he a man of his people? You don't think he will be missed by many people in Venezuela? Didn't he and his policies bring Venezuela out of a really bad economic and social situation?

You have a point. We should wait for an independent investigation into the affair: UN urges independent probe of Palestinian death World body's political chief says Israel must conduct 'transparent' investigation into prisoner Arafat Jaradat's death; I hope Israel agrees to do this.

I have no doubt that an organization made up of thousands of people have people whose personal views differ from the organization. Amnesty spokeswoman Susanna Flood said, “Johansson remains as the director of Amnesty International in Finland. “Obviously, we regret it if such a term was used by an individual whose personal views could be misunderstood as reflecting those of Amnesty International, and we disassociate Amnesty International fully and clearly from such comments and we are making this clear to Mr Johansson,” Flood told thePost. “Amnesty International has never described Israel as a ‘scum state’ or used any such terms to describe Israel,” she added. You should look into AI's reports on North Korea. It might give you a better understanding of how things work. I'm not sure what your definition of massacre is. But killing 55 people is pretty bad. Let's see how the dictionary defines massacre: Deliberately and violently kill (a large number of people). That's his opinion. HRW gave a response to his remark: Human Rights Watch does not believe that the human rights records of "closed" societies are the only ones deserving scrutiny. If that were the case, we would not work on US abuses in Guantanamo Bay, police abuse in Brazil, the "untouchables" in India, or migrants in South Africa. "Open" societies and democracies commit human rights abuses, too, and Human Rights Watch has an important role to play in documenting those abuses and pressing for their end. Human Rights Watch does not devote more time and energy to Israel than to other countries in the region, or in the world. We've produced more than 1,700 reports, letters, news releases, and other commentaries on the Middle East and North Africa since January 2000, and the vast majority of these were about countries other than Israel. Furthermore, our Middle East division is only one of 16 research programs at Human Rights Watch. The work on Israel is a tiny fraction of Human Rights Watch's work as a whole. Quoting a member of government, whose job is to look after detainees and prisoner and who is commenting on the findings of an autopsy is much different than quoting someone who is a paid lobbyist.

When have I posted from CPJME? Even though I have friends who are part of the organization and I have pretty much the same "Mission and Vision", I'm not a member of their organization. Not to say I don't agree with their vision of justice in the middle east. My information usually come from various media outlets and from human rights organizations such as Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, International Red Cross, B'Tselem and various, non-partisan human rights organizations. You, on the other hand, have posted from one of the slimiest lobby groups, CAMERA. In this thread, you posted comments by an Israeli lobbyist who gets paid to lobby for Israel. You always make an effort to draw some kind of a parallel with my sharing of information with your dishonest and suspicious method of spreading information, but you fail every time.

Show me the bill that was passed in U.S.' South half a century ago where black children were not allowed to go to school with white children. Show me the bill that was passed where blacks were supposed to ride in the back of the bus. How about we look at what has happened: - Dramatic birthrate drop of a community in the past 10-15 years - Women coming forward and saying that they were forced and coerced into being injected - The government ordering the stopping of the injections Will you be dealing with the facts above or are you going to request to see a bill that was passed in order to admit the discriminatory birth control policy towards the Ethiopians by Israeli officials?

The failure is when 5 points are given and only one response is made and that response is a failure in itself since it doesn't really touch on the subject. There is no racist birth control policy towards any community in Canada like there is in Israel.

Oops. Failure to respond to the points: There are many holes in the twisting and turning and failed comparisons: #1 - Ethiopians have been living in Israel for many decades. Meaning that they have many decades to assimilate into the culture. If you want to use the natural decline in birthrate argument, then the drop in birthrate should have been happening over time, over many decades. You are not. #2 - The 50% drop in population has happened in the past 10 (or 15) years. It is a sudden drop in birthrate. Not a gradual drop you would expect. #3 - This sudden drop in birthrate coincides with allegations that the Israeli government has been forcing Ethiopian women to be injected with birth control. #4 - The Israeli government has ordered the stopping of the policy. #5 - In Canada, no such discriminatory and racist policy exists towards any community. At least not in this day and age. You can continue to try to excuse and whitewash Israel's discriminatory and racist policies, but the facts will continue contradict you.

What I mean by forced is that they were told you either take the birth control, or you don't come into Israel. According to some others, they were lied to about what they were being injected with. You should look into the information surrounding this news before getting into the Israeli Apologize mode. You are falling for American Woman's narrative. No one is talking about the birthrate in their old country. The comparison is between the birthrate of Israeli Ethiopians now and over 10 years ago. The birthrate of Ethiopian Israelis IN Israel has fallen by 50% in the past 10 years. Then admit the truth and stop dancing around the truth.

It has been confirmed by an autopsy in Israel, that Jaradat was tortured to death: BETHLEHEM (Ma'an) -- An autopsy has revealed that Arafat Jaradat died of extreme torture in Israeli custody and did not have a cardiac arrest, the PA Minister of Detainee Affairs said Sunday. At a news conference in Ramallah, Issa Qaraqe said an autopsy conducted in Israel in the presence of Palestinian officials revealed that 30-year-old Jaradat had six broken bones in his neck, spine, arms and legs. "The information we have received so far is shocking and painful. The evidence corroborates our suspicion that Mr. Jaradat died as a result of torture, especially since the autopsy clearly proved that the victim's heart was healthy, which disproves the initial alleged account presented by occupation authorities that he died of a heart attack," Qaraqe said. Link The minister said Jaradat had sustained injuries and severe bruising in the upper right back area and severe bruises of sharp circular shape in the right chest area. The autopsy revealed evidence of severe torture and on the muscle of the upper left shoulder, parallel to the spine in the lower neck area, and evidence of severe torture under the skin and inside the muscle of the right side of the chest. His second and third ribs in the right side of the chest were broken, Qaraqe said, and he also had injuries in the middle of the muscle in the right hand. Jaradat's heart was in good condition and there were no signs of bruising or stroke, the minister added. Those who are responsible for this murder should be brought to justice.

Ethiopians have been migrating to Israel since many decades ago. There is proof that Israel has had a policy of giving birth control to Ethiopian women from when they were being brought in from Ethiopia. There is proof that many were forced to take the birth control injection. Israel has ordered the practice to stop. Why are you trying to make excuses for something so obvious? How do you feel about Israel's policy of injecting the black Jews from Africa with birth control. Do you also believe the government should take it upon itself to control the Ethiopian Jews' birthrate by forcing and coercing them into being injected with birth control?

There are many holes in the twisting and turning and failed comparisons: #1 - Ethiopians have been living in Israel for many decades. Meaning that they have many decades to assimilate into the culture. If you want to use the natural decline in birthrate argument, then the drop in birthrate should have been happening over time, over many decades. You are not. #2 - The 50% drop in population has happened in the past 10 (or 15) years. It is a sudden drop in birthrate. Not a gradual drop you would expect. #3 - This sudden drop in birthrate coincides with allegations that the Israeli government has been forcing Ethiopian women to be injected with birth control. #4 - The Israeli government has ordered the stopping of the policy. #5 - In Canada, no such discriminatory and racist policy exists towards any community. At least not in this day and age. You can continue to try to excuse and whitewash Israel's discriminatory and racist policies, but the facts will continue contradict you.

How am I supposed to respond to a person who advocates forcibly controlling the birthrate of a group of people? I am not able to discuss racist and discriminatory scenarios with people like you.

Stop lying.

More of the same comments, while dismissing the illogical premise behind it. Your argument is that this sudden drop in birthrate may be due to Israeli Ethiopian women's sudden change in cultural practices. I don't think anyone here, besides others like you, who will go to any length to justify Israeli actions, will see any logic and rational behind your explanation. Ethiopian Jews have been living in Israel for many decades and the sudden birthrate drop happened in only the last decade, while the "women had more choices, living in a developed nation" for many decades. Did they suddenly decide that they had many choices in the past decade and not in the previous decades while living in Israel or because there was a birth control policy which was implemented by a racist country who is trying to keep the population of the Negroids down? These natural changes in cultural practices happen naturally. They don't suddenly change and have a dramatic drop which coincide with a birth control practice that we already know has happened to a number of Ethiopian women.

Does TimG know that every year, the Canadian government gives more than $1.4 billion in tax subsidies to oil, coal, and gas companies. I do not understand those who are so against social services, but are advocates of big company handouts.