Aristides

Recognizing the past is a good way to avoid repeating it in future. Our treatment of Chinese and Jews have already been pointed out. We also put Canadian born Japanese in camps and stole their property during WW2. Irish immigrants were also discriminated against. We have a long list of discrimination in this country. I think the rise of antisemitism has a lot to do with education, my grand kids say they learn little about the holocaust in school, the opposite of my generation who actually knew camp survivors or their kids. Some things about putting the past behind you are not positive.

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/black-canadians

Last week there was a show about Canadian black combat vets from WW2. They were denied certain positions in the military simply because of their race. In combat units they were treated as equals by their comrades but discriminated against when they got home. There was one incident cited where two black vets went into a coffee shop in uniform after they arrived back in Ontario and were refused service by an owner who was also a vet. This was not unusual at the time.

Ontario farms sure do. Dairy is the largest segment of Ontario agriculture making up 20% of receipts. We used to make all that stuff. I have lots of things like cookware, tools , and other stuff made in Canada that I bought in the 60's 70's and 80's. Ontario used to have a large garment and shoe making industry. "but the conditions where it can survive are sometimes/often not worth engineering." Whether you regulate supply to match demand or subsidize the cost, it is still engineering. So you think a system where farmers can produce as much as they want and and have government subsidize the crap out it to keep prices down and still dumping surplus that has no marked is better. Again, you compare a subsidized price with one that isn't. Yup. pretty much says we have a better system, even with its flaws.

No, but I don't see Trump as a conservative, just a grifter.

Huge factory farms put very little into their local economies because they can outsource their suppliers just like you want to do with their product. Basically you want to outsource everything to the cheapest bidder wherever it comes from and then complain that we don't do anything ourselves anymore, just like we have everything else. Make it in China, buy it on Amazon or E Bay, as long as it is cheap. A business is viable only as long as you give it conditions where it can survive. We outsource our security to the US, why not our food as well. Hey, the Yanks are dumb enough to subsidize it for us with their taxes. Right?

Criticism of the war in Russia gets you 9 years in a Gulag. https://www.rferl.org/a/rusia-siberia-journalist-facing-nine-years-prison-ukraine-war/32259948.html

Could just as easily be a Russian.

Competitive with who? You really don't think farmers do everything they can to remain profitable? I posted an aerial photo of a So Cal dairy farm, it wasn't an isolated example. We used to spend several months every winter in a place called Hemet CA. There are more than a half dozen farms just like it on the north side of the city and when the wind is out of the north you can smell them on the south side. If you don't believe me go to Google Earth and look. Cows would never survive one of our winters in conditions like that. 2019 to early? https://pbswisconsin.org/news-item/wisconsin-loses-more-dairy-farms-in-2021-with-total-down-by-a-third-since-2014/ https://qz.com/1832063/covid-19-has-us-cheese-and-milk-industries-on-the-brink https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/21/small-farms-vanish-every-day-in-americas-dairyland-there-aint-no-future-in-dairy What do you think has changed since then, they got more subsidies? This has been going on for decades. That's my biggest beef with your lot, you compare a subsidized price with one that isn't and claim they are the same. You seem to think they are ripping you off. I'd like to see you spend one day working on a dairy farm, getting up at five and not having dinner until 8 in the evening, 11 at night if you are harvesting.

So he would be the only one who would get to produce whatever he wanted, every one else would have to obey the rules so he could get a high price for his milk. The link I posted was a lot more informative, it shows how much stress US farmers are under because of oversupply. Dairy farmers aren't hobby farmers, it is far to expensive and labour intensive.

The guy in the video thinks milk costs $7 a litre and that every farm in the country could produce 30,000 litres a week more without flooding the market and cratering the price he gets for his milk. What do you think would happen to all this milk that has no market?

The Ukrainians have been making their own luck.

I already posted this once. https://www.thebullvine.com/news/could-supply-management-help-struggling-us-dairy-farmers/

You really have no clue.

All supply management does is try to ensure a stable supply at at the same time as give a liveable return for producers. Even if dairy farms do average $160K a year, that is not much for an investment of millions and an occupation that is a 365 day a year job with no benefits. A lot of people get paid a lot more for a lot less.

They still take the same kind of hit when rates increase. No they aren't. Increases in costs have far exceeded prices. https://twitter.com/intent/follow?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1620799272215105538|twgr^42c5e2aefb318573b2a2e2dabbb3362f58b6faa5|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdailyhive.com%2Fcanada%2Fcanada-milk-gate-price-increase&screen_name=CDC_Dairy How is having to subsidize something you don't use more equitable than paying for its real cost. You sound like a communist.

The US and Europe heavily subsidize their agriculture and their consumers do not pay the real cost of the food they consume. How many times does this need to be said. American dairy farmers have been asking for some sort of supply management to save their industry. The cost of land is the same regardless of what you use it for. Dairy farming puts more back into local economies than any other form of farming. The goods and services they require exceed any other form of farming.

Farmers borrow from the chartered banks, just like everyone else. I know one third generation farmer who is thinking of getting out. He is in his late forties and the physical punishment of working with large animals all his life has made him the equivalent of a retired football player and he wonders how long he will be able to keep it up. His father was the same, he farmed till he died because he loved it even though he could hardly walk and could only drive a tractor for his last ten years. He has been in the business all his life and has tried to steadily expand his business in order to remain competitive. The increased cost of servicing his debt, feed, fertilizer, diesel, machinery and all the other costs involved in dairy farming has him barely breaking even. Of his four kids, only one wants to farm but there is no question of passing the business on to him and providing for their own retirement at the same time. Plus, how do you give a farm worth $20 million to one child and disregard the rest and still have a place to live and provide for your own retirement. The farm is also their home. Many farmers are finding themselves in the same position. He has got to the point where he is thinking of selling everything except his land and just producing feed because the prices are so high that it is more profitable than dairy farming. It breaks his heart because he has been a dairy man all his life and loves it.

So you don't know. It isn't but no other farming is so capital intensive. Why do you think the cost of all food is going through there roof but somehow you think dairy should be cheaper. How much dairy do you think the world can absorb at a price that makes its production possible? Our industry is not subsidized, the whole idea behind supply management is to make the industry viable without subsidies. New Zealand's climate has more in common with California than Canada or Northern Europe which does heavily subsidize agriculture.

Sounds fine but how much over capacity can the market absorb?

I like it just fine where I am thanks.

Sell their farm to who? How viable will they be with interest rates tripling and their other costs doubling. Who will buy a business with those fundamentals? We aren't subsidizing them, we are paying the actual un subsidized cost of the commodity. So why aren't subsidized American farmers able to compete in those markets? Why aren't they shipping all their excess production to Asia? Among other things, New Zealand has a much more benign climate. Dairy farming in a Canadian winter is not comparable. Why are no other countries competing in the New Zealand market?

You really need to get out more. There is another world outside of your basement. I've been to Florida as well and would take NZ any day.

Yup

Both of them?