Yzermandius19

Following the Italian model is retarded, clearly they don't have slightest clue what they are doing. If you think everyone following Italy's example, which would result in shutting down the world economy, won't cause lots of economic damage, I would suggest this is because you have no real grasp of economics and you have no real grasp of how shutting down the economy negatively effects health outcomes in this pandemic, while also completely overestimating the positive health effects of shutting down the economy.

Your trust in Chinese claims of having handled the virus is naive. The North Korean's haven't had a single case according to them, I bet you think they kicked Coronavirus ass too, lulz. These governments claims are not to be trusted, especially the Chinese who wouldn't even admit the virus existed for weeks after they knew about human to human transmissions, but now all of a sudden, you trust them because they tell you what you want to hear.

Follow Y's approach and you get South Korea's results. Italy cracked down far more and have had vastly worse results. Your theory that shutting down the economy is the best way to handle things is not working out so great in Italy, that's who you want to emulate, them and China, clown. Whatever you do, don't emulate the clearly vastly superior model and destroy the economy instead, that's the ticket. Follow the examples who handled it the worst instead, great job.

You are the one disregarding experts, pretending all of them agree with you is proof of that.

Brainwashed Commies existing does mean Communist China can't be that bad. They have over a million Uyghurs in concentration camps, and harvest the organs of the Falun Gong. They are committing genocide as we speak, but it can't be that bad. Stupidity Over 9000. Some people's preference for Totalitarian Government is so strong they think we should model ourselves on Genocidal Communists.

I know, and yet we still have folks on this forum who think China is the model to emulate, and it's ten feet tall while the sky is about to fall on America. Silly stuff, America Derangement Syndrome is a helluva drug.

Free markets make government more accountable, not less accountable. Communist governments are far less accountable than Capitalist governments, anyone with half a brain can see that, only left wing extremists are silly enough to claim otherwise. Totalitarian Communists are more accountable then we ever could be? Hilarious.

Trudeau Derangement Syndrome props up Trudeau, just as Trump Derangement Syndrome props up Trump. You are falling for the same trap that Democrat fall for, just with Trudeau instead of Trump. If you can't even acknowledge that a broken clock is right twice a day, that's counter-productive hate, right thur.

What you consider to be downplaying the virus is not panicking like all the SIFCLFs, so you are a terrible judge of what constitutes downplaying the virus.

The Spanish Flu killed people with strong immune systems, weaponizing it against them, as well as taking out the weak. The Wuhan Flu kills people with weak immune systems, and is like the seasonal flu to those with strong immune systems, mortality wise. It's not the same at all, and the expert you are talking about doesn't disagree with anything I just said, you just misguidedly think he does, because your comprehension of what he was saying isn't very good.

It really isn't, and even those who agree on the strategy don't all agree on the timing. Your "the science is settled, all the experts agree" bullshit is funny though. Boris wasn't forced to change tack because of science, he was forced to change tack because of SIFCLF panic monkey's demanding it out of ignorance.

It is not a separate discussion, everything is interconnected. Solving one problem by creating a worse problem isn't a solution, especially if you don't even solve the original problem and add a worse problem on top of it.

That time and pace can get a lot of people killed if you go too far with draconian economic shutdowns, more people than will be saved by such draconian economic shutdowns. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get a net loss of life because of tunnel vision on Coronavirus. That and thinking that the only effective measures to fight Coronavirus are desperate measures with massive government intervention, because you're a knee-jerk nanny stater who sees a free market economy as the enemy, if a threat you don't understand gets you whipped up into a panic. If it doesn't come with big heapings of massive government control, or with the support of people who support such policies, then you won't consider such a policy effective against Coronavirus.

When you shut the economy down for extended periods of time, the economy doesn't simply come roaring back, that's not how it works. If you fail to factor in economic downsides, that can lead to proposals that do far more damage to human life and the economy than the coronavirus ever could, embracing "cures" that are worse than the disease is not the way to handle coronavirus. You can't just tune out important factors because you're hyper focused on one factor, that can lead to terrible decisions where the juice isn't worth squeeze, such decisions being more likely with such a mindset because of tunnel vision and panic.

Indeed, lets not look at the mental health costs at shutting down the economy and killing social gatherings, lets just play if it saves even one life of someone with coronavirus game, all other costs are totally irrelevant. I mean any plan will look good for addressing the coronavirus if you ignore all the downsides and only factor in the potential upside, but that's stupid.

The vast majority of those cases under 65, are among those with underlying conditions. Never said the young folks without underlying conditions were immune either, I said that the mortality rates among that group are very close to seasonal flu mortality rate levels for the general population, in and around 0.2%

I'm not suggesting putting the economy first, I am suggesting that many of the best ways to deal with the health crisis have nothing to do with hurting the economy. Not taking economic effects into account is a big reason why you don't see the downsides to many of your suggested policies. The economy effects people's lives too, and a terrible economy can lead to a lot of deaths that wouldn't otherwise have happened, so if you don't have proof of measures that shut down the economy make a huge difference in the amount of lives saved, then you have very little upside being gained at the expense of huge downsides. Saving a few extra peoples lives from Coronavirus, which isn't even what you are doing you are actually getting more people killed by Coronavirus with this economic shutdown, all while allowing a lot of people to die due to terrible economic situations caused an ineffective overreaction to the virus, that is not a good trade off. That's a net loss of life plus huge economic damage. Literally the worst of both worlds.

The correct action isn't at odds with the economy, you assuming that the best way to address the health issue is to hurt the economy is the problem, because it causes you to dismiss any solution that doesn't hurt economy, no matter how effective it is. It's not a zero-sum game.

You understand incorrectly. The Wuhan Virus is basically only killing old people with weak or compromised immune systems, the death rate among young people with strong immune systems is around the seasonal flu mortality rate, while Spanish Flu killed these folks in droves. Spanish Flu killed loads of young people and children, Coronavirus kills loads of people with health problems and those of advanced age, totally different.

Do your own homework, apparently you only listen to experts who claim the sky is falling, and claim that shutting down the economy is the only way to fight the virus, and none of the experts who say anything different. If you think there is a massive consensus about the right course of action and flattening the curve is the best measure there is, you're wrong.

The virus seems to be less deadly than the Spanish flu, especially to those who aren't old or with underlying conditions. Something like 99% of the people dying in Italy are either old or have underlying conditions, this is barely touching young healthy people or even kids, the Spanish flu on other hand was more deadly the healthier and younger you are, as it used a healthy body's defenses against itself which resulted in a large amount of deaths, on top of taking out the old.

None of what you said has anything to do with what I just said, total non-sequitur.

None of the experts are making the claims you are about flattening the curve. If the medical capacity line is far lower than social distancing can flatten the curve, then things will bad for longer, not shorter. Many experts say that after things are no longer totally shut down there will be a surge in cases due to a lack of herd immunity that will be nearly as bad as if nothing had been done at all, so doing it means you get both the flattened curved and the big spike in cases instead of just the big spike. My view is that needlessly delaying herd immunity among populations that are at low risk from the virus is counterproductive, especially in the long term.

South Korea was more prepared prior to the outbreak, that's why they had the resources, not because the draconian measures they did implement bought them the time to produce them. Flattening the curve did not increase their preparedness to any significant degree, but at least they were smart enough not to mandate the shut down of thier entire economy like others in a futile attempt to overdo it on the social distancing thing way too early.

Nope. Totally inappropriate and completely overblown. The panic does not fit with the actual danger of the threat. Governments are pandering to the panickers, and the panickers of course think this is a good idea, but they would think that wouldn't they?