Dougie93

Canadians don't really want to be truly independent, certainly not at the cost of decoupling from America which would be catastrophic, Canadians are colonials by nature, they just want some other country to do all the heavy lifting, when Britain couldn't do it anymore, Canadians turned to America to run things for them

the politicians simply recognize the reality of Canadian society being so unmartial, and the Canadian economy being so unproductive, that there really is no alternative to Canada relying upon America for Canada's security and prosperity therein

the biggest military threat to Canada is internal, wherein the wholly unmartial cosmopolitan society doesn't even know what the military is for anymore, the military in Canada is treated as just another branch of the civil service, wherein the priority is "Decolonization" and promoting "Feminism" but as you say ; it's not my military anymore, so I just wash my hands of it, If America invades, that would simply be liberating me from the rule of the left wing kooks who run this basket case

the whole idea that Canada is going to divorce itself from America is obviously a pipe dream, the politicians at least seem to recognize this reality, other than the kooks in the NDP that is

leasing as a stop gap would be a good option for Canada, everything is in flux right now, you don't actually know what you need for the long term, when the war in Ukraine is proving many 1980's type weapons to be obsolete, or at least not very decisive

when it comes to sticking it to America in a way that is actually going to get America's attention, Canada is going to have to take the gloves off and start cutting off the supplies ; oil, electricity, potash, etc and be willing to stand firm when Trump goes ballistic about it

I don't think the F-35 is as big a deal to America as people here surmise, it's never actually been put into full rate production, America has started to move away from F-35 being the future, America has already started to move on to the next generation of air dominance weapons, with a much greater emphasis on drones, F-35 is far more important to American allies than it is to the US military it's entirely plausible that Trump would be willing to move on from F-35 sooner rather than later, I would suggest that America would be better off spending it's F-35 money on the B-21 bomber a single B-21 is worth a hundred F-35's in terms of actual effects on target, the role of the F-35 meanwhile could be replaced by drones, everybody is watching Ukraine seeing how warfare is rapidly changing in real time, including the Pentagon the Pentagon for example has already cancelled its next generation attack helicopter program, seeing that drones have already rendered those obsolete, Ukraine is already bombing Moscow with low cost drones ; who needs F-35 ? this is the real reason why Canada should cancel F-35 ; it's probably not worth the money after all, instead, Canada could go with an air defence fighter like Typhoon, and then drones to do strike, Canada probably doesn't need 80+ fighters neither, when 40 would get the job done, Canada only has 40 operational CF-18's for NORAD, and that's been adequate for the task, really Canada just uses CF-18's for air policing, which requires a man in the loop, but when it comes to striking targets offensively, drones have already taken over that role in Ukraine

India's strategy is to source from multiple countries, Russia, France, Israel & America, India does not rely upon any one country, but they do use American kit, Apache, Super Hercules, Globemaster III, so they would be willing to add F-35 to their arsenal to get the edge on China, since they have options if America cuts them off, to include India is developing its own stealth fighter again tho, what India would really be interested in here ; is access to the American global ELINT network which comes with buying F-35, this is how the Ukrainians have been holding out against the Russians, only the Americans have the vast global Intelligence gathering capability to pull that off,

the larger issue is that the public clearly doesn't understand how F-35 works, the jet itself is not that special, it's not the jet which makes the Stealth the F-35 is part of a network, wherein it is being constantly updated by American ELINT to defeat enemy radars, you can make a copy of an F-35, which China already does, but that doesn't replace the American global intelligence network which the Stealth relies upon

China is not going to buy military hardware which relies upon American logistics

actually Trump is targeting China's arch rival India as the next F-35 customer

America was already refusing to sell F-35 to Turkey, since Turkey is considered to be too close to China

except America doesn't actually rely on exports, all American exports combined only amount to 10% of American GDP, most of what is made in America is made for American consumption Buy Canadian vs Buy American ; Canada is going to lose that war very badly it's the same for China & Europe, America buys up everyone else's excess production, that's not a two way street hence why Europe is not rushing to Canada's defence here, Europe, particularly Germany, is in very rough shape right now, they can't afford a war with America the whole Canadian plan of "hey everybody, let's gang up on America !" is just blowing sunshine up your own asses, since it's not in anyone else's interests to do so, if you are going to make realistic plans, that starts with realistic assessments of just how dire the situation actually is, point one ; you are on your own here, nobody is coming to save you point two ; Canada is not going radically transform itself into a dynamo in any relevant time frame your advantages are that you can still spend a lot of money to bail Canada out even if you combine federal & provincial debt, Canada is still only at 80% debt to GDP ratio, which means you in fact have considerable room to print more money and get away with it, can't do that forever, but could be done to outlast Trump's political capital and you can restrict the flow of resources ; energy in particular, to get your shots in in order to wait Trump out in essence, if you are confident that Trump is a fool and that his plan is nonsensical ; then have the courage of those convictions and just wait for it to backfire on him, if Trump's plan doesn't start showing big results for the American economy in short order, then the GOP is going to get wiped out at the mid-terms, so you only have to hold out for 20 months, that's the Democrat plan ; they are just feeding Trump rope at this point, because they think its going to blow up in his face and they want it to be all his fault

indeed, the CF-18's can be operated for time some yet, it's not like Canada uses more than a handful of them anyways, buying F-35 was only to appease America but fighter jets are not actually at the top of Canada's list of military needs, Canada's military crisis is a personnel crisis, Canada can't get enough people recruited & trained to operate what equipment Canada has now, the air force is actually the best equipped of the three service branches, the army is the service which is in the most pitiful state, if the air force does have an urgent need, it's not replacing the CF-18's rather it is replacing the CH-146 Griffon tactical helicopters which support the army the threats to Canada are not invasion by conventional forces, there's very few scenarios imaginable wherein the defence of Canada requires a stealth bomber, even Canada has to fight for NATO in Europe, that will be the army being deployed for that

except Canada can't actually prove that, because Canada is only propped up by American markets, otherwise Canada's governance is dysfunctional resulting a moribund economy in terms of productivity, and Canada's state capacity, the capacity to build things, is feeble comparing Canada to France or Italy is silly ; Canada is nothing like France nor Italy, France & Italy are actually industrial & military powers in their own right, while Canada is just a Company Town which pumps cheap gas for America

well first of all, Canada's inflated GDP is reliant on exports with special access to the American market, so if Canada is getting divorced from that, the GDP will fall sharply, but furthermore, the UK, France & Italy don't have the resources which the Chinese need, Canada is the prize that all the major powers are now pursuing, while unlike Europe, Canada is a vast territory with a comparatively tiny population and practically no military power

I think those were mostly Blue Liberals driven to the Conservatives by Justin Trudeau, with Trudeau gone, they can come back now, never underestimate how gratingly annoying smarmy Justin Trudeau was the Liberals main problem was simply that people couldn't stand the sight nor sound of him anymore

if you have a flameout over the Canadian Arctic, you want two engines this is why the F-35 is actually wrong for the Arctic, Canada is only buying F-35 to bomb other countries alongside America, NORAD is not really what its for, if you are just flying defensive missions over the Canadian Arctic, Eurofighter Typhoon is the best available non American option it's all made in Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain, the plane, the engines, the avionics, everything Americans have no control over it, it's all European, the IP is owned by Airbus it's the best Western air to air fighter other than the F-22, it can launch air to surface weapons as well, it's got better range & payload than a Gripen and it has twin engine redundancy for operating deep into remote areas

not built for the Canadian Arctic ; single engine, plus that engine is American requiring American logistics ; GE F414

America is not threatening me, I'm not particularly attached to the Woke Progressive socialist Post National nanny state, free speech, gun rights, more money, lower taxes; I'm not fighting against that, go ahead and liberate me, America, please do

I'm already there, best of both worlds, it's just that my wife is very attached to Canada, and she's willing to pay the premium to live here, fair enough, we she goes, I go

it's not actually impeding me in any way, I don't rely upon Canadian exports for my prosperity, and other than my modest estate, I'm not invested in Canada,

I'm just going to keep lording my dual citizenship over Canadians in the meantime, lord knows the Canadian Zoomers desperately wish that they had an American parent; then they wouldn't be stuck competing with South Asians for the jobs at Tim Horton's, Canada is fine if you are a wealthy land owner like me, but if not, it's a brutal slog

realistically, Canada is not going to do anything different, Canada will just hunker down and try to wait Trump out, it's easier just to weather a brutal recession, than it is to try to fix Canada's structural problems

ah well, there goes my reason to vote for him. I'll just go back to ignoring the election; not my problem