blackbird

Yes, I have read history books. There are cases of spousal abuse or domestic abuse scattered in society at large in western countries.. It is not something that is promoted as part of the judeo-christian religious systems in western society.

Do you have any evidence of that claim or are you just assuming that?

Altai, I am not cherry-picking anything. What is truth? You believe the Quran came from God. I asked you to explain why you believe that. Is that a good question? The Holy Bible was written over a period of 1500 years and completed about 2000 years ago by about 40 different men, long before Muhammad lived. Muhammad lived about 500 years after the Bible was completed. The Bible has recorded many miracles that took place and many of the men who wrote the bible were eyewitnesses to many miracles. This is one reason you should consider believing the bible came from God. The bible is divided up into 66 books. The second book of the Bible is called Exodus and it tells of many miracles that Moses performed by the power of God. When Moses was in Eygpt with the children of Israel, he performed many miracles to make the Eygptians let the children of Israel go. Then when the children of Israel were leaving Egypt, God divided the Red Sea so that they could cross to the promised land. see Exodus ch14 vs 21 Jesus performed many miracles. They are recorded in the first four book (gospels) of the New Testament. The bible is divided into the Old Testament and the New Testament. The life of Jesus is recorded in the four gospels of the New Testament. Many of the prophets who wrote the Bible were martyred for their faith. This is further proof that what they wrote in the Bible was true. There are prophecies in the Bible that predicted things that had not yet happened and the prophecies came true. This is further proof that the bible came from God. Do you have anything to show that the Quran came from God? The fact that Jesus was seen after he was resurrected from the dead by many eyewitnesses proves a number of things. It proves that Jesus is who he said he is. That is, Jesus is the Son of God and also God. He is not an ordinary man or ordinary prophet as Muslims claim. He performed many miracles and rose from the dead. A central message in the Bible is that God wants men and women to have a personal relationship with him. That is why he sent his son, Jesus, to die on the cross and shed his blood for ours sins. Read the gospels and the book of Hebrews about the necessity of having a sacrifice to pay the price for our sins. Jesus paid that price. The Quran has no similar saviour who paid for our sins. If you look at the Old Testament you will see in Old Testament times the Jews offered sacrifices for sins on an alter. That was only a picture of Christ, the one and only sacrifice for sin. He could do that because he was God's son. God sent his Son to be a sacrifice for our sins. God wants you to believe in Jesus and it is through Jesus that we can know God. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John ch14 vs6

I think there is a little misunderstanding as to what I said. I was referring to the word "tolerance". Jesus did not teach to agree with or go along with those who opposed him or his teachings. When you say moneychangers and sinners were very much accepted by him, that is not correct. Jesus overthrew the tables of the money changers at the temple and condemned making his place of worship a place of money dealing. Jesus accepted sinners who wanted to repent and follow him as disciples. He never approved of sins of people.

God is not an it. In the Bible he is referred to in the masculine gender. see King James Bible (1611) "Why can't God save us from Sharia?" "who's side is it on anyway?" God is not on a side in that way. He is calling people in any group and everywhere to be born again. God uses his word to save people from all sorts of things which are in opposition to him and give them eternal life. But the gospel of Christ is spread through the preaching of God's Word. That is the method God chose to spread his Word. "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians Ch1 vs 18 "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." 1 Corinthians Ch1 vs 21. KJV 1611 Must go out for a few hours.

Altai, you are in a state of denial. Sharia denies freedom of religion and speech in countries where it is imposed. That's why I asked you if you can give any evidence that the Quran and Sharia is from God. If it does not come from God, then it must be invented by man. The Holy Bible as I explained earlier to other people comes from God and the evidence it comes from God is overwhelming. Many prophets and apostles wrote the bible under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and some of them were martyred for their faith. People don't die for something that is false. If you read the first two books of the Bible you will see some big miracles recorded. The children of Israel were held in slavery by the Eygptians for hundreds of years until God set them free. There were many miracles that God performed to convince the Eygptian pharoah to let the children of Israel go. Then God parted the Red Sea and Moses led them through to the promised land. These were big miracles. Have you read the Quran?

Altai, There is a world of difference between between some Islamic countries which practice Sharia and western democracies. You have missed a major difference. It is freedom of religion and freedom of speech. These are considered as fundamental human rights in democratic countries. In Islamic countries this is not so. There is a woman for example in Pakistan who has been sentenced to death for blasphemy. She was a Muslim who converted to christianity. How many Islamic republics have a death sentence for Muslims who convert to christianity? There is no freedom of religion in such countries or freedom of speech.

This is where you seriously err. Many of the prophets and apostles who wrote the Bible were martyred for their beliefs. They obviously were not lying. If they were eyewitnesses to the miracles and power of God, we better believe them. When you have a number of witnesses saying the same thing, you don't dismiss them as liars do you, especially when some of them gave their lives for what they believe.

It shows you haven't really studied the Bible. The words tolerance, peace and acceptance are your idea, but not the main message of the bible. There are modernist liberal churches who might preach that, but it is not the gospel. That is more a liberal ideology. I'm not sure what you mean by "tolerance". The bible does teach to love they neighbour as thyself. But Jesus did not teach to agree with or accept those who are in opposition to him or his teachings. There are places in the bible where being at peace with your neighbour is taught. But the central message of the Bible is Jesus Christ. The New Testament for example especially focuses on Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Saviour. There is no similar central message in the Quran. The teachings in the Quran saying to treat opponents harshly or to tax non-believers have no similarity in the Bible.

That is where you err, not being a believer. There is a world of difference between the Bible and Quran. I don't think she can or will give any evidence. I can give all kinds of evidence. For one thing, Jesus raised the dead, healed the blind so they could see again and was raised from the dead himself. After the resurrection he was seen by many eyewitnesses. If you accept a number of eyewitnesses in a court of law to verify the truth of something, why would you not accept a number of eyewitnesses as recorded in the Bible? Altai might consider this.

I assume Sharia Law is based on the Quran. So I think it is a fair question to ask Atlia to at least give some evidence the Quran (and Sharia Law) came from God. If it is not of God, then it must be invented by men. On the other hand I have pointed out the Bible is full of miracles that prove it came from God. I gave the example of the parting of the Red Sea to allow the children of Israel under the leadship of Moses to escape from captivity in Egypt. That miracle alone demonstrates the Bible is inspired by God. Is there any evidence at all the Quran (and Sharia Law) came from God?

If you are advocating Sharia Law, it is a fair question to ask you why you support Sharia Law. Are you being evasive? Sharia Law is a religious law so please give some proof as to why you think it came from God. If you can't prove it is from God, then why follow it? Is it a man-made law? What is OP?

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy ch 3 vs 16, 17. The bible was written by men acting under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as the above verse teaches. The Old Testament does contain a lot of history of people of Israel because they were God's chosen people and were the people through whom God chose the prophets to write the Old Testament. It is not fiction. Many prophets had encounters with God and God showed them his miraculous power as in the exodus from Eygpt. God parted the Red Sea so that the children of Israel could cross and escape the Egyptians.

I am a believer in God, just not the god of Sharia Law. The topic is Sharia Law so you should be prepared to defend it or acknowledge it is incorrect. Sharia Law, which you are promoting, is open to be examined in this thread correct? Or do you subscribe to the idea nobody can question it? You quoted some verses from the Quran. Again, can you prove the Quran is from God? What evidence do you have. If Sharia Law is based on the Quran, don't you think that is a good question. Prove the Quran/Sharia Law came from God.

Altai, The subject is "Are You Ruled by Sharia". I would have to say no, I am not. I am not a Muslim. I understand Sharia is part of Islam. We in most western countries do not have or recognize Sharia Law. That is something unique to Islamic countries. I am a believer in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. The bible makes it clear he is the only way to heaven as I said in verses I quoted. I understand the Quran was written in the 7th century or about 1300 or 1400 years ago. Do you have a Holy Bible? The Bible was written over a period of about 1500 years starting 3,500 years ago by about 40 different writers I believe. The bible records many miracles which help to verify it's truth and authority. Jesus was raised from the dead and seen after the resurrection by many eyewitnesses. This proves Jesus is the Messiah or Saviour as he said. There are many prophecies in the Old Testament which were later fulfilled. Fulfilled prophecy is more proof of the truth of the Bible and proves it is God's word to men. Can you prove the Quran came from God?

I'm not sure I said that would give you that idea. There is no third place. RCC teaches there is a purgatory but that is an invention of men. There are only two places. "are you compelled to stay?" Are you being facitious?

Absurd comment!

I don't think Jesus forsakes children. There are different views about when believer's children should be baptized. Two schools of thought: infant baptism in Reformed and Presbyterian churches (and some other denominations) and in Baptist churches, believer's baptism. However, it comes down to the truth that salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ alone. Churches that baptize infants believe baptism is a sign and a seal. Baptists who baptize older children when they profess their faith have a similar belief but perhaps slightly different about the meaning of baptism. That is a whole different subject. The essential thing is a person must be born again to receive eternal life. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" book of Acts

I don't understand your perverse logic. Murder is condemned in the Bible. "thou shalt not kill". Jesus loved little children and said of such is the kingdom of God. I think I see what you are getting at. If someone is mentally incapable of understanding the gospel, either because they are too young or are an infant, and they pass away, most churches believe they will go to heaven. God is a just God and merciful and as the bible says, he wills that non will perish.

Arguing about whether Islam can be reformed is ludicrous. There is only one biblical truth. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me." John ch14 vs6 There are many religions but there is only one Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord said in the book of Isaiah "I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah ch 43 vs 11. These verses make is clear there is absolutely no salvation in other religions. One must born again by faith in Jesus. There is no other way.

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John ch3 vs 5. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John ch14 vs6 This verse tells me one must be born again by faith in Jesus Christ in order to have eternal life. There is no other way. One must believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God as the gospels teach, and that he is in fact God as the scriptures teach. The Bible teaches all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans) Islam does not teach man is a sinner and needs a savior, but the Bible makes it clear he is. The Bible teaches man is in a lost state until he is born again and know Jesus Christ as his personal savior. Do you know Christ as your personal savior? If you were to die at this moment, do you know where you would go? If not, don't waste any more time. Get a bible (KIng Jame Bible) 1611 if an English translation is needed and study and pray. Ask Jesus to save you. That is the most important issue in life.

That's completely false, rubbish.

OK. I think I answered your questions about those verses in the O.T.

?Impact, I can't give you an analysis of those verse right now because of time constraints. I'm not sure if you have a particular comment or question about them. Not exactly sure why you quoted them.

No. That's not how to interpret or understand the Old Testament. As I said it is partly a historical record and not meant to be an instruction on how to live today. Israel was in a unique situation as God's chosen people and Exodus tells the story of how God brought the people of Israel out of captivity and slavery in Egypt and brought them to the promised land under the leadership of Moses. You've probably seen the movie The Ten Commandments. It is probably a rough approximation of what happened but not exact. What God gave for instructions in those days were meant for Israel, not for today. There are some instructions that are for all time such as most of the ten commandments. Examples such as thou shalt not kill. not steal, love thy neighbour , etc.