dialamah

An interesting article about the way in which our society is becoming increasingly polarized. I'm sure we've seen or experienced the other side's "hatred" of us. I admit, I've wondered why. When I arrived on this forum about a year ago, I actually believed I'd find reasoned discourse about policies and ideology on both sides of the political divide. Prior to this forum, I'd been described as apolitical by others. I didn't have strong feelings about right vs. left; I only knew that I'd supported Harper previously, but that ultimately I didn't like some of the policies that were being implemented. But I really wanted to understand both sides better, to make a better and more informed decision this time, and maybe next time as well. But now, a year later I'm a (sneer) 'progressive', a (sneer) 'leftie', someone who doesn't care about Canada, who experiences "white liberal guilt" (I had no idea that was even a thing in August of 2015), and who sides with people who carry out brutal attacks on others. Equally, my supposed "opponents" complain about being called racist, bigots, red-necked, un-Canadian, backwards, etc. I'm sorry we're at this point, honestly. Is the article accurate in it's explanation of why we have become so nasty to each other? Is there any way of becoming more civil to one another - both here, and in the wider world? What do you think?

At least here I can agree with you.

In the Arabic Bible, the word for God is Allah. In Matthew 4:10, the Arabic version would read: "You shall worship Allah your Lord, and only him shall you serve." You aren't really open to it, DoP; you use abrogation as your 'out' to actually understanding and accepting what billions of Muslims believe to be the message of the Qu'ran and Muhammed. Never mind that abrogation is a disputed concept among Muslims, and that even where Muslims accept some abrogation as valid, they dispute others. Even the Hadiths are disputed, and there's an entire subset of Islam who doesn't follow any of the Hadiths. But you'll take whatever current "teaching" of Islam you can find to support your contention that it's inherently violent, radical and 'worse' than any Western ideology, and you'll ignore and dismiss anything that says differently. So don't give me any BS about being "open" to any message other than what you already believe. At least be that honest.

I was raised in the Cariboo; I saw plenty of non-white faces starting in grade school, though they were of the native kind. I saw my first black kid in Grade 2, and she already knew people didn't like her because of her skin color. In high school, an American kid made fun of me because I befriended some East Indian kids. Called me snake charmer and some other things, I forget all what. There was a lot of racism directed toward those non-white kids and I didn't want to be a part of it.

I'm one of those progressives so I guess I also see them make fun of Trudeau. Note the first comment at the bottom decrying the lack of comedy and respect for Trudeau. And here's Mercer tearing a strip off Trudeau over the Saudi deal.

I like status updates. I say keep'em. If people want to expand an update into a topic, they can.

Much as I enjoy sparring with you, DoP, we've had this dance before. I've given you the message of Islam, as I understand it, and you reject it in favor of your own understanding of Islam. This difference between you and I is the same difference that results in ISIS killing other Muslims as well as sponsoring terror attacks in the West.

Well I don't know how many Richmonites are actually foreign-born, but I agree a lot of them look Asian. But I think this is what Canada looks like; perhaps I simply don't have the same emotional connection as you do to seeing mostly 'white' faces and English signs?

Oh yeah. These people who like to expand their comfort zones - it doesn't mean they go 'visit' like tourists to a strange country. It means they get to know that which makes them uncomfortable until they are comfortable with it. That means they don't need to return to 'more comfortable' environments. I grant you that the majority of people do not do this. I moved from Kitsilano to Surrey, so I guess I'm in a lot more diverse neighborhood now. I live in a complex of 18 townhouses; there are seven obvious white families, the rest are ethnic but really couldn't say if they are first, second or third generation Canadian. Or PRs, for all I know. Two of the white families are quite racist, one violently so. I guess they're pretty uncomfortable here, but I'm not. I love it for a few reasons, but the two racist neighbors annoy me. On the other hand, not sure I'd be entirely comfortable if, for instance, I lived in a place where it was entirely East Indian except for me, and there were a lot of East Indian signage in my closest consumer center.

What does that mean? What should Richmond or Brampton look like that would make it recognizable to you? I have to say, you seem pretty pissed off anyway.

All true stuff. Also, Harvard has developed an implicit association test which can indicate one's unconscious bias for or against certain things about other people (weight, race, religion, etc.) Still, some people like to expand their comfort zone and deliberately look for similarities in people that are different from themselves.

Our critical thinking skills (or lack thereof) are off-topic. My apologies for getting caught up and encouraging you. Cheers.

NM: Non-substantive post.

NM: non-substantive post.

My conclusion is that humans like to fight.

Wow, you so lack reading comprehension! I didn't deny it; I said I researched it.

I agree, it's a pointless joke and that Harper did exactly as he should have done. But don't think it means the comedian needs to be fired.

Yeah, I know you believe Islam is so much more warlike than any other group. I wondered once if maybe you had a point, so I looked back about 200 years. Turned out, every group I looked at was about the same in terms of military conflict they voluntarily engaged in. So you will no doubt continue to believe that Islam is particularly aggressive, but I know you are wrong.

Sorry, what? I thought he was making fun of Harper hiding in the closet.

I might agree the joke was in poor taste, but hardly a firing offense. I wouldn't want to start a trend of firing comedians for making fun of politicians. Do you really want to start down that road?

This reminds me of an ex I had who admitted that if he understood why I disagreed with him, that meant he'd have to agree and then he'd have to change something about himself. I thought he could understand, still disagree and then we'd work out some kind of compromise.

Complaining without looking for reasons and solutions is a waste of time and energy, imo. Terrorists are indeed creating havoc and despair around the world; if we don't solve the question of 'why', we're never going to figure out how to solve the problem. The all-too-easy response of 'because of Islam' doesn't explain why we barely heard of Islam or Muslims prior to 9/11, and yet now we regularly hear of terror attacks. Islam and Muslims were certainly in existence prior to 9/11.

Well comedians do make fun of politicians. I've already seen JT get some ridicule from Rick Mercer. But anyway, I agree it's generally a low-blow given he was only doing what his security had instructed him to do.

I'm well aware of abrogation, a *controversial* aspect of Islam. Tell me, if people who've grown up in the Islamic faitth do not believe they must wage war on unbelievers, why should you , a Westerner, declare them wrong? Do you wish to support violence, terrorism and war? Do you wish to convince people that war must be waged on Islam? Do you want to ensure young people hear and follow your interpretation if Islam and join ISIS, rather than the the interpretation that allows them to live peacefully with others in Canada? Just what is your agenda in pushing an intolerant warlike interpretation of Islam, and deny an equally valid peaceful and tolerant interpretation? People choose what they want to believe regardless of evidence or fact. You choose to believe that Islam preaches war on unbelievers and apostates, I consider you the same ilk as ISIS. My brother-in-law chooses to believe that Islam preaches peace and tolerance, I hold him in the same regard I hold Canadian fundamentalist Christians.

Islam also teaches: "There is no compulsion where the religion is concerned" (Qu'ran 2:56). "The Truth is from your Lord; so let him who please believe and let him who please disbelieve." (Qu'ran 18:29) "And obey Allah and obey the Messenger; but if you turn away, the duty of Our Messenger is only to deliver the message clearly" (Qu'ran 64.12) "Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, or curtails their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything away from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the day of Judgment". (Abu Dawud). That is the Islam my sister's family follows along with the majority of Muslims world-wide; it is not for them to explain away what Allah commands.