monty16

If you talk to a modern day catholic you will find that they are in the process of updating their beliefs to fit in with scientific facts. Some of the more enlightened ones now believe that jesus was a mortal man! What's left after that becomes the popular position of catholics. Soutern Baptist Youn Earth Creationists?

It was predictable even during the Olympics that the US/Nato was itching for trouble with Russia. The hate rhetoric during the games should have warned everyone. It was as if the cold war was still going on and there was a real reason to hate Russia. All they could muster up was the gay issue and even the US hawks got on that bandwagon against their own personal interests.

Unlike the Iraq war where we had Chretien seeing the façade the US had set up, this time we have Harper at the wheel and he's not going to disappoint the US for any reason. Canada will join the US in it's plans to further encroach on Russia. After all the US aggression since they got the opportunity with the fall of the Soviet Union, it should be difficult to be taken in again for Canadians who look into what's going on in the Ukraine. Alas, not so for many as the US/Nato propaganda sweeps them along!

You see, that post is more to the point than most. It's an insult aimed at me that's probably going to fall within the rules. No less egregious in it's content than coming right out and calling me a troll. So if that's within forum rules then is it not what a forum is all about. It could be termed as 'trolling' this thread but I promised I wouldn't use the term loosely. I'll just call it irrelevant to the purpose of this thread and a childish response to a serious topic. Not to mention that it indicates a fear of being exposed by the poster *'itself'. * well within the apparent rules of this forum

To get the ball rolling, I'm going to suggest that the term 'trolling' is really what any forum is all about. So why would anybody take exception to 'trolling' if in fact a forum is actually encouraging it? Granted, some few members take part in the kind of conversation that is searching each other for answers to any number of questions. But look at the content of any thread to see that is far outweighed by members eliciting a response from a political or ideological opponent. That act of eliciting will almost never be done in a way that would be asking for an opinion from the opponent that could conceivable be acceptable to the enquirer. So considering that 'trolling' as such is quite acceptable to forums and forum members, can we not be more specific in our charges against others? For instance: If one makes the claim that most Americans are hypocrites because they overlook their war crimes in a dishonest way, would that be 'trolling' for a response and be outside the forum's rules. Or would it just be normal behavious here and only content which would be seen as totally acceptable. And if it is seen as being unsuitable or against forum rules to make such or similar comments, then what more suitable charge could be levelled at the offender? Then, would the charge be anything more than just one person's political or ideological opinion and be completely within the parameters of good behaviour to another member?

In my opinion it's really just being lazy to try to pin that charge on anyone. It's invariably used on the recipient by his political foes because your explanation is how foes see it. Those in agreement with the recipient of the charge will rarely be in agreement with the charge of trolling. A thorough discussion on the term 'trolling would be a worthwhile exercise on any forum. I think it would be instructive and useful to moderators and give direction to them on how to handle what they see as forum abuse. I would never make the charge to a moderator unless is was to question the tactic in return to a like charge against me. More appropriately, I would try to be specific and make the charge in line with the rules of the forum. Forum rules where the term 'trolling' is used are really only relying on a copout for being less specific. Now why don't you see if you can do that? Or start a new thread to serve the purpose. the question I would like to ask of you, what is your purpose in bringing it up?

Some people whine and cry about drinking driving while knowing very well that most people who sit in a pub or bar are going to go out and drive home after having a drink. I say 'a drink' because of the new limit of .05 in B.C. you can't even have one. So what do we do? Hold bartenders responsible for serving alcohol to patrons who they suspect of being drivers? It would seem this would be a legitimate response to these new laws. Laws that in my opinion at least are being too restrictive of the use of a legal intoxicant. In B.C. a person who serves alcohol to a guest in their home can be held responsible for that person's behaviour due to alcohol. Considering that the police consider a level of .05 to be intoxicated then a person who is served one bottle of beer in my home could perform outside my home immediately following that drink and I could be held liable. If he/she drives and kills somebody on the road then I could supposedly be sued for millions. Maybe it's time to stop the hypocrist. If not then it's time to outlaw bars or taverns.

Funny thing is sharkman, I have just been accused of trolling by a moderator. Whatever trolling means? The I get this from you which surely qualifies as namecalling and surely qualifies as eliciting a response from me to address your abuse of the rules. I'm not really sure what 'trolling' is but it seems to me this post of yours could apply to the term. I mean, what's it's purpose other than to elicit a response in kind? I think you are trying to elicit a response that would be outside the rules of this forum. I'll decline the offer this one time but report the post in the hopes that it will do some good. Some useful purpose other than crying to the moderators which I really don't relish doing when there are other remedies. A remedy such as simply reminding you that you are acting like a frustrated troublemaker?

You're trying to apologize for American stupidity but you're also trying to excuse arrogance. Americans really don't care all that much about the rest of the world. Many even proclaim that openly. Hence, comedians like Rick Mercer have a ready made source for material. Arrogance with your religious beliefs and combative of others who don't accept your religious fantasies. Arrogance toward others who believe in different relgions and toward atheists who believe in none, even to the point of advocating causing bodily harm toward them in your own country. Murderers of doctors who perform abortions on women due to the arrogance of accepting no varying opinions on the question. So arrogant that you don't even recognize those heinous crimes as murder. Arrogance in being excluding of other languages than English. Arrogance in being excluding of Hispanics. Accepting of the arrogance against blacks in the southern states. Arrogance in thinking that proactive wars can be passed off as legitimate. And arrogant toward those who expose your ugliness, ignorance, and stupidity. Now don't get me wrong and accuse me of being an American hater. Try to understand that we've just got your number now. I mean, there's lots to hate after the slaughter of over a million Iraqi people but we are looking to the future with some caution and giving you another chance. Even though we suspect you'll disappoint again because we know that nothing stops a fascit bully but the bully's own comeuppance.

When you post evil american lies I'm one to pick up on them. It's bad enough that your country slaughtered millions of Iraqis on false pretenses, and now you try to perpetuate the lies with excuses. Is it any wonder the rest of the world sees the US as the modern day Nazi aggressor state. Regardless of whether you are talking to someone else, I'll always pick up on your lies when I see them. That's the way it works around here and you have no power to change it. What are you going to do, bomb me from 30,000'?

I just finished going back to 2008 and reading over my identical twin brother's posts on this forum and lo and behold, he had it right on pretty well everything. As Ron Paul now admits and Ron Paul backers must agree, bombing them over there just makes them want to kill us over here. (Paraphrased) Or another way to put it would be 'the US had it Coming'. That's how my identical twin brother, USHADITCOMING, put it. But then they went and banned my identical twin brother because the worthless Bush2 warmongering apologists just couldn't stand the truth. Mostly people like Shady who kept pushing it with the moderators because he was probably feeling challenged back then. If he wasn't he should have been, knowing the truth as we know it now. And ya know, all the same olds who had it wrong then are still getting it all wrong today! Flagwaving USBS ya know. So how about that kids? Have people like Shady and a few others my identical twin brother mentioned have grown up a bit yet? Or is the truth still banned on this forum. Just in case, I'll smell ya all later. My twin brother told me this forum is a waste of time and not worthy of adult discussion and I'm pretty well in agreement with that by now.

How about making a lampshade of your imaginary pretend uncle's hide?

Either you need to read more carefully or you need to stop lying. Above you will find a post of yours where you do the same thing to me. You come to wrong conclusions on what I said because of one or the other. As for pilots (some pilots?) telling Sada, that sounds like more hearsay that has never been proven to be correct. In fact it's been shown to be highly unlikely. You're not doing very well with your gung-ho flagwaving, sabre rattling so why not back off a little and get some facts for a change.

No. No. Right!

"Talks"! More talks! And what do you think the talks will consist of? Have you thought it through that far yet? Do you think there's any possibility at all that Iran would want concessions on the Israel question? Hmmmm? Iran can live with the sanctions because Russia and China will surreptitiously make it look like they're cooperating. But we should all know that China and Russia are the US's competitiors for oil in the ME so they're certainly not going to play their hand and make it easy for the US, hence hard on Iran to the point where Iran needs to cave. It's the perfect storm woman. The perfect storm for you too because everybody wins and everybody loses at the same time. Right?

Well isn't that a lot of rightwing US bravado! You can't say for sure if Iran's seeking nuclear weapons or not but I sure hope they are! You're no ME expert for sure but you talk like you think you are. Juan Cole is and he tells it pretty much like it is because he doesn't need to pretend that the US can do what it pleases in the ME anymore. If the US bombs Iran it will be with the UN's blessing and that doesn't come without China and Russia's blessing. And if the US gets China's and Russia's blessing then the US will have no reason to bomb Iran. China and Russia have a stake in not seeing Iran get nukes too, to a lesser extent than the US and so those two will be asking for concessions from the US on the Israel/Palestine issue. The US will. Sorry but your wet dreams of war are not on the table. Isreal won't be starting one either and so that bluff has been called.

Slowly, very slowly the holocaust story is changing and it's not due to IHR. Impossible legends are being replaced with plausible stories. Israel's biggest enemy is those who built up exaggerations and ridiculous yarns which we know now are impossible. And none of it was necessary because the real facts would have sufficed. It's just too bad there's not enough intelligence on this forum to keep the conversation rational without the fighting back and forth and accusations both ways. Both on the side of believers and deniers. And so nothing will come of this exercise. Or maybe at best the ditzy woman will say everybody's right and everybody's wrong.

For once this ditzy woman is right, nothing will change. What's of mior importance is who gets blamed for nothing changing. We know her opinion will be popular in the US but we also know that the rest of the world has known for years how the game has been played. Israel causes trouble and the Palestinians respond. But why argue over that again and never reach any kind of agreement? I've laid out above what will happen and what needs to happen.

Don't try to lead me into a different discussion, it won't work. Israel/Arab relations is the bone of contention that needs to be addressed. And fwiw, what I say is exactly what is going to happen but of course Israel will blame it on Hamas. Israel apologists will believe it. Read this: http://www.juancole.com/2011/12/2011-end-of-us-hyperpower-its-war-with-islamdom.html The US will have to manufacture a pretense for war but it's not going to be as easy as it always has been. That is because China/Russia are not going to give the US the UN resolution to go ahead. This means that the US is going to have to make Israel pull in it's horns in order to get joint cooperation on Iran. That is, pressure against Iran in a non-violent way along with Russia/China support. Israel is not threatened but neither is Iran at the moment but it's still in Russia/China's best interest that Iran doesn't go nuclear. Here's where Israel will get thrown to the dogs if it doesn't begin to live up to it's part of the shared state or two state bargain. The US has always used Israel and will abuse Israel readily when it becomes in the US's interests. Israel will shift from being friends ot the US because of US interests, to being a chain around the neck of the US. It won't need Ron Paul as president. He's nothing more than a senile old fool who knows how to play the game and foresees what is coming. As the balance of power in the ME shifts more to multilateral power agreements, so will Israel by necessary become less influencial. This is the best hope for future peace in Israel/Palestine. A few years perhaps? Making Israel behave with it's neighbours is a very cheap price for the US to pay.

This has nothing to do with denigrating Obama or any US politician. Let's think this one through shall we kids? If the US does Iran then Iran does Israel in a big way. But if Israel goes nuclear then Russia and/or China go nuclear too. So Israel and the US know that and suppose it doesn't go nuclear. Israel loses bigtime as well as Iran losing bigtime but not so bad as Israel because Israel's assets and populations are more concentrated. Which asks us to imagine an impossible situation because neither Iran or Israel want to suffer the huge losses of civilian population, even in a non-nuclear conflict. So then we imagine the most likely outcome and that's that the US reign of terror in the ME is nearly over. And that means that Israel pulls in it's horns too. Which doesn't mean that Iran then controls the ME but it does mean that Iran has the deterrent necessary to stop the US further momentum. Then Russia and China establish their presense in the ME and develops Iran's oil resources. (cause that's what it's all about) And the US faces the possibility of losing out in Iran and Iraq too because both countries will favour the Russians and the Chinese.

Think a little deeper. The US doesn't regret either of it's wars against Iraq. If you're not understanding the strategic importance of the USpresense in the ME then you're missing the bigger picture. Did you think that Russia was in Afghanistan to harvest poppie seeds for bagels? I know it's hard to accept the logic because if you do then it makes it quite undeniable that the US is the warmongering aggressor of the 21st. century so far. Which all explains why as long as the US is killing them over there then they are going to be killing Americans over here. Probably Canadians too.

We can always depend on you to take both sides of an issue. You're just so wonderfully ditzy on everything!

Any peace overtures on the part of Hamas will be met with slaughter at the hands of the Israelis. Israel can never allow an atmosphere of peace in which they could eventually be forced to agree with the UN's 67 borders mandate. Israel has no good intention whatsoever.

Brought the fear of nuclear retaliation to the US which has historically resulted in the biggest deterrent to war the world has ever seen. The number of lives this will save in the ME over the next 50 or more years is unimaginable. This very well could be the biggest determining factor for preventing wholesale slaughter at the hands of the US for the foreseeable future. Easily 100 to 1 odds over Ron Paul ever accomplishing peace in the ME.

Brewer, Limbaugh, Perry, Cain, or even goggling the santorum, they're all priceless but you people are missing the big picture. The US wins first prize hands down for it's ignorance and bigotry and overall comedy routine in politics. Honourable mention has to go to Ron Paul for his outrageously ridiculous agenda that could only be imaginable in a third world country. And next runnerup goes to the racist, hating baggers that think it could ever become reality!