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I agree that many Canadians can only define an identity by being "not American", but others manage to be secure and confident with what it means to be Canadian in Canadian terms, history, language, etc. Justin Trudeau has capitulated on this, declaring Canada as a "post-national state", completing his father's political play for multicultural dilution and counter for Quebec nationalism. Trump inflames pre-existing insecurities in Canada for some people, and Canadian media eats that up.

What got Trump elected? Trump spoke political incorrectness, something that people wanted to hear from a politician. That is what got him elected. Trump did not kiss ass anyone to get elected. That helps a lot. But what he did was kiss azz the voters who voted for him as it should be. Unfortunately for most Canadian politicians they have to kiss ass so many special interest groups to try and get elected. Scheer will be no exception. Now if Scheer got up and spoke political incorrectness he would probably have a better chance of winning the next election. The Americans who voted for Trump did. People want to hear a political leader speak for and to them and not for the establishment elite cabal and special interest groups. Those are the ones that are and have been trying to destroy Canada for decades now, and all seems to be working fine for them thanks to our inept politically correct politicians whom have never appeared to ever try and make Canada great again. They have been in support of what appears to be making Canada un great. The majority of the Republicans appear to have no values or morals or love for America. The majority of them are nothing more than a bunch of swampsters who despise and hate Trump for no other reason than to try and keep their little swamp corrupt game going.

How would you know that it effects me? Now JT getting elected, that deeply effected me. If Wynne wins next June, that'll deeply effect me. I guess it effects me like a sporting event. But it is just entertainment. I can put the same amount of effort trading barbs with you clowns than I can debating if Walking Dead is still a good show or if the Toronto Maple Leafs are Stanley Cup contenders. You seem to be the one taking this deeply personally. Just like you like seeing Liberals lose their minds, I like to see Repubs sacrifice all their moral high ground to defend a President like Trump.

Canada's obsession with Trump is unbalanced, but that's on top of a long existing anti-American neurosis. Trump knows how to push buttons, but some Canadians/media react just as he intends them to. Is it even possible for them to ignore Trump for a moment ?

Wondering why so many Chinese-Canadians line up for those Liberal Party 'lunches' with Trudeau and his ministers? It has similarities to what Canada does in the United States by reaching out to Congress, business leaders and others to sell the merits of NAFTA — with one key difference. “We do that above board, we do that publicly. Where China differs is its willingness to use diaspora groups, people who have an economic stake in China to work behind the scenes,” Mulroney said. “That’s a form of interference in Canadian affairs.” http://ottawacitizen.com/news/economy/watch-chinas-efforts-to-influence-as-canada-pursues-trade-says-former-envoy/wcm/b9a71c96-f933-4dc0-9705-0a90b83b451e

Here, I tried to share informations from any sources but noone share anything other than me only some troll posts. Another problem is that I am a bit whimsy. So I am interested with many different issues at the same time and I instantly lose all my interest about a subject and focusing another subject. So this always cause my projects to stay in half. I am the brain, not the worker. I give orders, I dont take orders.

"Plus I just wanted to trap you with your own Godwin's Law moment." Hmmm....I should make a 'Law' too. The Law of Inoculation: When one tends to desire resistance to logical reflection on some idea that is common by some outside group or the general population, name the tendency of their most powerful arguments as conspiring to mislead you by triggered themes as a 'law'. This inoculates the insider from giving outsiders the platform known to brainwash you of something irrational that appears logical.

Begging facts is not proving them. Do you not recognize the borders prior to 1947?

So Hitler's Holocaust justifies the Jews to now have carte blanche victimhood rights to now BE the same? Where is the German Nationalists among Israel? Hitler (and/or the party as a whole) actually formulated an antithesis to the Jews by embracing the kind of National Socialist he saw worked effectively within the Jewish community. That is, their philosophy was based on embracing in reflection, a solidarity among the German aboriginals by fostering a 'history' and 'religious cult' that granted "Providence" (Nature and their 'god') to formulate a ZION exclusive of all other peoples. Any wrong by one time against people does not justify payback to the others unrelated to the cause of harm, NOR to the offspring of those children. Is your "Jerusalem" ALL of it (East and West)?

You are entitled to your opinion, but for the debate to carry on one must be founded in reality. That is not meant to be an insult, but what you are talking about here is fiction. There is not much point to discuss such "fantastic" ideas. In reality you cannot claim it is your capital unless it is within your borders. That's just... fundamental. Palestinians are a people that have no country. The country is Israel. Jerusalem can still be their capital, but only in the sense that it belongs to the nation of Israel. This point shows that Donald Trump did not unilaterally make this decision. A number of other world leaders past and present have done likewise. As is often the case by pro-leftist media these days, they are not lying but they are omitting parts of the truth, seemingly to increase outrage and fear directed solely at Donald Trump.

"-Jersusalem is already the self-declared capital of Israel." Jerusalem is NOT a consolidated entity capable of self-declaration. But let me try too: Jerusalem is MY capital. So now I declared it, I give it to the world and no religious organ can impose laws that favor nor disfavor other groups. The people of my city now have no state but the world's. "-Other nations have recognized this." I'm not "other nations". ... I don't 'recognize' it. I wasn't even invited to the meeting to vote. I guess they forgot to invite potential dissenters. "-Several past US presidents and congress expressed their support for this, even through the passage of laws." And 'several' past AND present leaders also disagree and even passed these into their own laws. "- All countries have the right to self-determination, including the right to choose which city within their borders is the capital." "Country" requires the inhabitants to have the vote to allow some set of distinct owners of some cult to declare they don't have to follow the prior country's rule. If force is all the matters, than 'right' again only refers to 'might'. The 'borders' are the contention. "- Comparison of Israel with Pangea are not well founded. May I also add that Pangea existed 100's of millions of years ago, long before any humans existed to live on it." My comparison was to the arbitrary nature of claiming some 'truth' by merely labeling it when the meaning is not tied to its label. Asserting "X is Y" is a definition of Y by X that 'begs' without justification. If you use outside meanings to X and Y, you need to define what X is independently, what Y is, and how they are related. Thus, the statement, "Pangea is the name of the continent that existed billions of years ago", is definition begging because it only ties the label, "Pangea", to that entity. That entity, the continent that existed billions of years ago doesn't prove nor disprove whether anyone was there to assert it UNIQUELY as named Pangea. [like whether a sound of a falling tree 'exists' if it is defined by the act of hearing it.] Claiming that "Jerusalem is the capital of Israel" is the same. It begs your personal definition of it by opinion but doesn't establish whether the city is NOT the capital of the Palestinians UNIQUELY. It just begs your preference without argument. "- Former Canadian governments have expressed similar support for this idea." This is an irrelevant appeal. Former Palestinian governments would express a different view.

I think it's obvious the embassy will be located (if it's ever moved at all) in the undisputed parts of Jerusalem west of the 1949 border. There is no point in saying the US recognized the Israeli part of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, because if you are talking about the capital of Israel, you obviously aren't talking about the Palestinian part of Jerusalem. Trump isn't exactly known for the precision of his language, so it's not exactly surprising that he failed to specify things to the degree that you might wish. I'm sure the US will clarify what exactly it means in the near future.

"....reality is that Jerusalem is Israel's capital city." And,....the reality is that Jerusalem is Palestine's capital city. There! Did I now win because I say it last? Does it convince you differently? "might is right" is fine if you don't mind it imposed on you. This IS nature's default prior to "civilization". Just don't let me catch you complaining about any injustice and expect me not to throw this claim back at you elsewhere. The problem becomes one of a subset of people who are "indifferent" to conditions they don't perceive locally or even beneficial (as wars and disasters tend to foster economic gains for many). But the lowest common denominator of those who exist in defiance of some convention to a LOGIC solution only empower the EMOTIONAL ones and prevents civilization and peace that defaults to those who already view this preference. It makes those people the major factor that prevents even a potential 'majority' of favor for peace impossible. I think you need to rethink this one. I'll have to see how you argue on other issues you may find more compassion for to determine if this isn't just some touchy personal factor rather than some logical misfire.

You merely 'insulted' me by declaring some delusion above ('reality over fantasy') which is merely a non-sequitur given it doesn't ESTABLISH your 'reality' valid AND mine 'invalid'. Thus, you're just stating, not arguing. All that is "counter" to me is that you don't seem to have ANY reason other than a 'might is right' argument. "We" should be attentive to the FACTS that Israel is established on a Jewish-only state (with token support to those who allow them to) and threaten the world both there and here by the nature of the West to be 'agreeing' to their (Israel's) intolerance. If we 'shouldn't' be 'dictating', then not even the U.S. 'should be dictating' the 'support' as it CLEARLY asserts violation AGAINST not only the Palestinians but to ALL Muslims worldwide who view Jerusalem as their own. If both are 'wrong', which I contend the rest of the world stand by, we CAN resolve the issue by isolating the capital (both would agree its their own) and set up a 'republic' with the two states. The nature of Israel, IN THE POWER, to maintain this.....along with the support of us here, is extremely violent and justifies any retribution. Or does it not matter whether terroristic activities continue here or anywhere else in the world. If the Israelis ARE the 'supreme' elements of beings they think they are, then they would have intellectually derived this. I know they have. But then it indicates their OWN HATRED of Muslims WITH PROOF! And the complicity of the U.S. or any others of their support, the same is true. We support their EQUAL RIGHT TO USE FORCE AT ALL COSTS upon us in any way the WORKS. And THIS is what you have to try to prove of yourself as a member of our states here in North America. If YOU don't care, why should anyone care whether you get violated in kind. I might chance to 'look the other way' too. Is that what you appeal to?

I'm not 'silencing' you. You appear to be trying to do that to me, is more of what I was saying, because you are not actually arguing but restating a kind of "Bush"-like appeal. ...like when Bush asserted WMDs of Sadam or repeating his link to Al Qaeda. If you actually believe in nothing LESS than this kind of argument, I'm saying that your approach for ALL other arguments should be consistently to STATE your view without anything more to add. I don't believe this is so and why I doubt that you are sincerely arguing but emoting for some other personal interest you don't wish to share. I get it if that is the case. I just don't believe you're being serious.

What's your point Bush_Cheney? You just seem to be repeating yourself. If you don't think there is anything wrong, I already heard you on that. But you aren't adding any argument distinctly than a type of "it is what it is" kind of argument. I only guess from your namesake that you support a right-wing preferential and likely religious need to have Israel bring about the end-of-times? If present power is the only justice you have for Israel's 'right' to do anything, then do you agree with Hitlers' similar stance when he was in power for his atrocities against the Jews in the Holocaust? I mean....it was their 'law' of his present ownership by right of force....stronger "willpower"! I hope I don't find you being hypocritical to 'support' any other cause here or anywhere else in the world. If might is right, that is all that matters. Are you just admittedly biased for Israel for personal reasons? Do you not see an advantage of an American-style distinct capital as Washington D.C.? Should Ottawa not just become both the capital of Ontario AND Canada as a whole? Would that possibly not bias Ottawa to be bound biased to Ontario versus the rest of Canada (like it kinda is given they don't separately treat Ottawa as 'provinceless'?

I already clarified the other Presidents THOUGHT about doing this. Add to this ANY leader of the past, like Joe Clark. This is not news to me. ALL of these past leaders backed off or out of their prior positions when they took offices and participated in the actual politics in practice. "Canada" is presumably a "multicultural" country. While it is certainly limited in what 'cultures' they Constitutionally favor, Canada is still NOT a 'fascist' state. They don't claim to serve ONE Constitution that serves ONE religiously and genetically favored group. The Aboriginals, as a class, though is interpreted as this and to what WILL in our future be the problem as we permit supporting segregate 'national rights'. You missed the point before too that Washington D.C. is NOT of any 'state'. If this was done in Palestine, you'd have two distinct states with clear and agreed to boundaries that are fair, and have Jerusalem be of neither Israel nor Palestine, but, perhaps, a 'district' OWNED by ALL states of the Middle East. That's what the United States intended and successfully achieved. Let Israel have a distinct "State Capital" apart from the very Jerusalem that the is the problem. It worked for the U.S..

Guys, the statement by Trump was not to distinguish which of East or West was "Jerusalem" but to assign with official arrogant force that the U.S. supports the contested view of Israel to the WHOLE city as theirs with clear and direct bias with disdain, against the Muslims and the whole world of Muslims. Otherwise, Trumps words had no NEED to be spoken. Oftenwrong, the city was only taken by the Jewish supremacists in a war they instigated to 'justify' a retroactive theft in return. The 'settlements' too are clear indicators of their criminal behavior. The idea is to separate and ISOLATE (as abusers do) to the Muslims there. This was already being done in the past. Their discrimination is also indicated in the past by the fact that they took 'ownership' of particular properties and called it a Nation. This would be like Chinatown in Vancouver declaring that part of Vancouver as now "China's Zion" with its own segregate special laws, etc.

The city existed and was called Jerusalem long before Muhammad was even born.

Are you being forced to contribute to this thread, hey? The Tax Bill is an American Bill, not a Canadian one. I personally could careless about their Tax Bill. It's none of our Canadian beez wax.

East Jerusalem is not recognized as being part of the internationally recognized border of Israel. It's part of Palestinian territory.

Jerusalem is the capital of Israel on land that is internationally recognized (West Jerusalem) as part of Israel since the 1948 war. Domestically in the United States, Congress passed a law (Jerusalem Embassy Act) in 1995 that recognizes this reality, as leveraged by many U.S. presidential candidates. Israel is an ally of the United States...Palestine is not. Israel gets to decide where its capital will exist, not international opinion in the context of the Palestinian conflict. Ottawa is on First Nations ( Algonquin ) land...should it not be recognized as the capital of Canada ?

An oversimplification, that if followed could get you fired. Would I ask my mother for a hug? yes. Co-worker? No. Would I compliment my mother, if she changed her hair, bought a new outfit? yes. Co-worker? No. Would I ask my mother to lunch, and buy her drinks? yes. Co-worker.? No. Would I make a joke that has some element of sex in front of my mother? Yes. Co-worker? No.

I will only waste my energy with you. The reality is Israel is and has always been Israel's capital. The reality is no nation in the world can dictate to Israel where to put its capital but they do. Can you imagine telling Saudi Arabia they can't put their capital in Riyadh or Iran they can't put their capital in Tehran or telling Canada they can't put their capital in Ottawa. The issue isn't where Israel puts its capital its that the world has capitulated to the Arab League of Nations, Muslim oil rich nations and extremist nations like Iran, fearing a backlash for recognizing Jerusalem as the state capital of Israel. Look at the rhetoric Scott Mayers uses. This kind of shrill oh my God the world will blow up reaction is what of course I expect from people who live in sheltered environments and fear extremist reactions. The world will end oh my God. Give me a fucking break. The reality is the PA and Hamas do NOT and will never recognize a Jewish state of Israel and want all of Israel back as a Muslim state but these leftist twits engage in this fantasy that; a-the only issue is settlements on the West Bank; ii-Jerusalem can't be the capital of Israel. The fact is many of the people who feel Jerusalem should not be the capital of Israel don't believe the state should exist but they won't have the balls to say that on this or any other forum. They will isolate the issue as they do the settlement issue, pretending they are stand alone issues. They are not. Even if a two state solution comes about, Jerusalem will be the capital for Israel no different than it would be for this alleged second Palestine nation if they recognized a Jewish state. One does not preclude the other. The point Trump made is that nations have held off recognizing Jerusalem as capital of Israel saying it needs to be part of a larger settlement plan of two nations living side by side. That's nice but since the 1920's and to this day, not ONE, not one Arab or Palestinian politician will recognize a Jewish state of Israel ANYWHERE and the current PA and Hamas have made it clear they will never stop until Israel is turned back into a Muslim state merged into a larger state with Jordan, Gaza and the West Bank. That is the position of the PA and Hamas and its always been. So isolating the Jerusalem issue to placate Arab League nations and the PA or Hamas for fear they will have tantrums on the streets and engage in violence means what? Trump did what Trump does and said FUCK YOU. He said FUCK YOU to threats of tantrums. He said you have 4 years before we physically move either get off the toilet and engage in serious peace talks where you stop denying the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, and make a deal based on that reality, anything else is up for talks. That is all he said. Problem is because its Trump no one is listening. Because its Israel no one listens. People simply assume and go off on tangents trying to isolate the Jerusalem issue as a stand alone issue. Its not and has never been. All Trump did was state the obvious. Every day diplomats travel to the capital in Jerusalem. They engage in fiction and pretend they ain't doing so because their offices are in Tel Aviv. The Knesset and government buildings are all in Jerusalem. Next, Israel pays rent every month to Christian churches who own the land on which the Knesset and all its government buildings are situated on. The PA and Hamas and Arab League of Nations unlike Israel do not recognize the Christian land rights, Israel does. So this is in fact not just a legal issue between the Palestinians and Israel its with Christian land owners in East Jerusalem which the Palestinians claim exclusively. The PA and Hamas recognize no Jewish or Christian land titles or rights of access ibn East Jerusalem. Let's be clear in a comprehensive peace agreement if there was a capital for the second Palestinian state and Israel both in Jerusalem it would have to be carefully planned. It would also have to incorporate and recognize Christian land rights. Israel has made it clear it will continue to recognize Christian land rights. It did not build any Israeli government building on land owned by Palestinians. Let's also be clear. Up until 1967 Muslims controlled East Jerusalem and pissed and defecated on and destroyed sacred Jewish sites in Jerusalem. When Israel went in to East Jerusalem in 1967 it said never again will our sites be treated in such a manner. The three religions have equal religious connections to the city and its a unique situation that would eventually have to be considered a special site for all three in some kind of international agreement but we are not there. We are not there because Palestinians will not recognize a Jewish state in Israel under any circumstance, and will not recognize Christian and Jewish access or land title rights in East Jerusalem. Sitting in a stalemate in fantasy land with the status quo has not worked. Maybe this will start something. It could yes trigger street riots and tantrums. So? Is that something new? The current status quo is open street warfare in East Jerusalem where at a moment's notice a civilian in the name of Palestine liberation of Israel could attack and kill someone indiscriminately. That's the status quo. That is something that needs to change. I finish by saying I believe the Jerusalem capital issue does not and will not negate the ability to create a second Palestinian nation anymore than settlements on the West bank will. Both issues are certainly seen by Palestinians as affronts to their dignity but they are not stand alone issues. They are all interconnected just as Canada and the world say.

found this thread and had a quick look, though maybe time for a little counterpoint to bjre. Not that you and Tim have not been carrying the ball very well, I just have a bit different point of view. First of all, I had an office in Guangzhou from the early '90s and later in Shenzhen until my very good friend and business partner died in 2007. He was borne in China to a Canadian father and Chinese mother, but due to the Exclusion Act, was not able to be brought home. Mom kept them alive throughout the Japanese invasion and occupation, then walked her pre-teen son over 1,000 kms. through the battles between the Nationalist and Red Army. My friend was, let's just say known to a significant number of people in Canton and when the Nationalists retreated to Taiwan, Hong Kong who would go on to be important to the development of China, Hong Kong and Taiwan in the future. They were some of the first people to immigrate (Exclusion Act ended IIRC in '47, but first actual immigrants arrived in '52). After becoming a very successful businessman in Canada, my then young friend did business for Communist China (something for a Nationalist!!) all through the '70s and '80s. He not only traded internationally for food, but travelled extensively throughout China dealing with provincial leaders regarding food distribution. Unlike Chinese citizens in Mao's time, and even deep into Deng's time, he knew far, far better what was actually going on in the country. After his passing, I stayed in touch with my closest Chinese friend, who rose to the very top of one of those massive state owned enterprises (vice chair, responsible for all international business). He has continued my education on how exactly things are actually done in China. BTW: he immigrated last year, as even from an extremely privileged position, he had no further desire to raise his son in China. So, to summarize: I know China first hand from my many years working in and out of there, and second hand from people far, far more knowledgeable than 99.99% of Chinese when it comes to economic policies and the strategies employed to carry this out. From all of that, I can say that China is one thing above all else in international business - PREDATORY. It has an extremely active and highly organized (and effective) policy of stealing technology, of coming into marketplaces and destroying local competitors, abusing their host country to exploit resources, and walking out the door leaving nothing behind. As has been mentioned in this thread, big business only gets into China by having a state owned entity as an equal partner. GM only managed to outgrow the market leader (VW, first big company to come in) because they were so weak that the Chinese partner managed to seize de facto control and have their way with the bankrupt yanks. When I see someone as totally inept as Trudeau trying to make some kind of deal believing we will come out somewhere near even in trade with China, it makes my cry to think there are people this stupid in Ottawa. The title of the thread is a lot more prophetic than I would wish.