Feds give $1B to Vale to Kill Jobs in Thompson

[BubberMiley]

I think Michael Moore said it best that rather than have a Brazilian country become more like Canada, "instead, they want a future where Canada becomes Brazil."

Edited February 26, 2011 by BubberMiley

[kimmy]

Anything with Michael Moore's name attached to it deserves a healthy dose of skepticism, so here it comes.

On the takeover of Inco... why would our government approves something like that? Well...

The Thompson nickel refinery and smelter will be closing down in five years as part of the Brazilian mining, Vale SA's, $10-billion plan to overhaul and expand its mining operations in Canada.

(...)

Although the closure could cause significant employment disruption in Thompson it may be mitigated by a potential investment of up to $1 billion by the company to develop new nickel resources in the existing Thompson Mine.

The company also announced substantial investments in its mining operations in Ontario and Newfoundland as well as a plan to get into the potash business in Saskatchewan.

If approved, the Saskatchewan potash project would employ 1,500 contractors over a four-year construction period and create up to 500 permanent jobs once in operation, Vale said Wednesday.

(...)

Vale said most of the $10 billion outlined in its five-year plan for Canada will be for existing operations surrounding its nickel business.

About one-third of the money, $3.4 billion, is to upgrade mining and processing operations in Ontario — the traditional centre of Inco's global nickel business.

There will be another $2.8 billion for a new processing mill in Newfoundland and Labrador — a figure that had been previously announced. That mill would process nickel extracted from the Voisey's Bay mine in northeastern Labrador, an operation that's currently on strike.

Winnipeg Free Press

Vale is going to be investing a huge amount of money in other operations in Canada, and is going to be investing in new projects in Thompson and northern Manitoba as well.

As well, it appears that the closure of the current Thompson operation is not so much a product of Brazilians being mean as a result of reality:

Vale says the closure is required for a few reasons. It said there has not been enough mineral resources in Thompson to keep the smelter at full capacity for many years; the nickel ore it had been importing to keep the smelter full will not be available after 2013; and the company determined it will not be able to meet new federal sulphur dioxide emissions standards required by 2015.

(same article)

So... they have to import ore to keep the smelter operating, and the ore they're importing won't be available, and the smelter won't comply with changing environmental regulations.

On the billion dollars the feds gave Vale:

On October 4, 2010, Export Development Canada (EDC) announced that it would provide up to a billion dollars in loans to international mining giant Vale. Half of the amount is targeted to projects at former Inco facilities in Canada; the other half will be available for operations outside Canada but that use Canadian goods and services, or to support exports involving Canadian suppliers. EDC is a Crown corporation that provides financial services including political risk insurance, loans, and loan guarantees to Canadian companies and their customers.

The EDC press release announcing the loans commented on Vale’s commitment to Canadian suppliers. Many have, however, questioned why Vale should be the beneficiary of a loan from a public agency when its commitment to Canadian workers and the environment are not to be congratulated. While EDC’s self-financing model means that Canadian taxpayer dollars are not being funnelled to Vale, as a Crown corporation EDC should ensure that it is supporting companies that operate to a high standard of ethics, labour relations, and environmental performance (sometimes referred to as “CSR” – corporate social responsibility).

Mining Watch

It seems like a stretch to say the feds gave them the money to kill jobs in Manitoba. It appears the money was to invest in Vale's operations in Canada, and operations abroad that would use Canadian products.

However, we should always ask questions when public money is given to private enterprise. What will we actually get for our money? It appears that this is a loan... so what are the terms of its repayment? Will the loan actually be repaid at all, or are there loopholes?

-k

[William Ashley]

The problems with these sorts of deals with massive US global companies is that the money isn't upfront - then you have the government GIVE THEM 1 Billion dollars....

These types of deals should only exist if the money is put into a trust fund for the purpose and only useable for that purpose, as soon as the company goes against the agreemnent, they should loose whatever they gained by the deal and forfit the trust.

You can't trust US resource companies they are notorious for backstabbing Canadians.

I'm not saying if the shoe fits, but I am saying that more safegaurds need to be exercised when dealing with these guys because they are "of the momement" and if it ain't protected they don't care. The government is being irresponsible, it needs more defined commitments.

These things have massive longterm issues.

Of course the ring of fire project in Northern ontario is underway... Another US company Cliffs could maybe benefit from the smelter. Not sure on the profit model there.. but they could ship from Northern ontario to Thompson Northern Manitoba rather than to Sudbury or ThunderBay. This is if a company life Cliffs and Vale (both american could cooperate on it.)

Although I'd really like to see a smelter in ThunderBay.. in that instance people from Thompson would have jobs again in 3 years if they moved there.. if it went ahead.. there is the potential of a new smelter operation from the Ring of Fire development though.

Hot off the press.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9LK2IOO0.htm

Edited February 26, 2011 by William Ashley

[Shady]

Great job on your post kimmy!

Bubble's propaganda piece was completely and utterly destroyed with facts. I love it!

[GWiz]

I think Michael Moore said it best that rather than have a Brazilian country become more like Canada, "instead, they want a future where Canada becomes Brazil."

We should be so lucky...

Outlook 2011: Brazil Jumps from Economic Stability to Economic Mobility

[Shady]

Looks like this thread is a classic Bubbles drive-by shooting. Smears and lies, gets called on it, and then runs away. Pathetic.

[Shady]

Has Bubbles still dodged this obvious drive-by smear yet?

[Shady]

Still silent huh? You can run but you can't hide.

[Shady]

Looks like Bubbles is back posting. Hopefully he'll address his gross misrepresentation.

[Shady]

Bump.

[Shady]

Bump.

[Jack Weber]

Professor...

Are going to answer post #1105 in the Union Busting thread,or will I have to bump that one...Again....????

Edited March 7, 2011 by Jack Weber

[Shady]

Professor...

Are going to answer post #1105 in the Union Busting thread,or will I have to bump that one...Again....????

Already replied to.

Oh, and Bubbles. Bump!

[BubberMiley]

While I’m reluctant to respond because I enjoy it when Shady looks desperate, insecure and insane, I stand by my original post.

Simply put, there is no reason to lay those people off. They could be redeployed, but they’d rather take a stab at busting the union than worry about long-standing workers and their families.

If it was Shady’s job, he would be up in arms that the federal government was giving $1B to facilitate that job loss.

But that would mean he has a real job to lose.

[Jack Weber]

Already replied to.

Oh, and Bubbles. Bump!

Answered poorly...

I'll get to you,and your usual personalized brand of zaniness,shortly...

[Battletoads]

Yet another reason why Canada should be kept for Canadians. The only people who benefit from these multinationals in the end are their shareholders.

[M.Dancer]

Yet another reason why Canada should be kept for Canadians. The only people who benefit from these multinationals in the end are their shareholders.

That's not entirely true. There's the transfer agents, securities lawyers, wire services, capital markets banks....

I mean, why should those who own the company expect to benefit from the sale of the company?

[Battletoads]

That's not entirely true. There's the transfer agents, securities lawyers, wire services, capital markets banks....

I mean, why should those who own the company expect to benefit from the sale of the company?

Canadians should be benefiting over multinational interest. Its our country, their just abusing using it.

[M.Dancer]

Canadians should be benefiting over multinational interest. Its our country, their just abusing using it.

Canadians are benefiting ...at least the canadians who are shareholders...why should non owners benefit? When you sell your house, do you willy nilly distribute the profits to the non owners?

[Battletoads]

Canadians are benefiting ...at least the canadians who are shareholders...why should non owners benefit? When you sell your house, do you willy nilly distribute the profits to the non owners?

If they want to come and use Canadian land, then Canadians should benefit. Like if someone wants to rent a room in your house, your going to expect them to pay.

And when you sell a house there are taxes that get paid out to the Government.

This is a disturbing theme from the cons though, their the only party I know of that places foreign profit over citizen well-being.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Battletoads

[bloodyminded]

If they want to come and use Canadian land, then Canadians should benefit. Like if someone wants to rent a room in your house, your going to expect them to pay.

And when you sell a house there are taxes that get paid out to the Government.

This is a disturbing theme from the cons though, their the only party I know of that places foreign profit over citizen well-being.

They simply believe that if you have the money, it's fair that you should have more control over other people's lives. It's as much about power as anything else...and they loooove power, or at least defending it in others.

It's good old-fashioned elitism, dressed up as economic theory.

[blueblood]

If they want to come and use Canadian land, then Canadians should benefit. Like if someone wants to rent a room in your house, your going to expect them to pay.

And when you sell a house there are taxes that get paid out to the Government.

This is a disturbing theme from the cons though, their the only party I know of that places foreign profit over citizen well-being.

Except that taxes are paid; royalties,income, dividends, sales taxes,property tax, etc.

[M.Dancer]

If they want to come and use Canadian land, then Canadians should benefit. Like if someone wants to rent a room in your house, your going to expect them to pay.

And when you sell a house there are taxes that get paid out to the Government.

This is a disturbing theme from the cons though, their the only party I know of that places foreign profit over citizen well-being.

I think this can be filed under "doesn't know what he is talking about but that doesn't get in the way of getting emotional about it"

[Battletoads]

Except that taxes are paid; royalties,income, dividends, sales taxes,property tax, etc.

I never said that there weren’t taxes paid out. I was responding to M.Dancers laughable statement that, unless you're a shareholder, you as a Canadian deserve nothing for letting these multinationals operate within Canada.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Battletoads

[BubberMiley]

bump

Edited March 8, 2011 by BubberMiley