Feds give $1B to Vale to Kill Jobs in Thompson

[kimmy]

While I’m reluctant to respond because I enjoy it when Shady looks desperate, insecure and insane, I stand by my original post.

The claims in your original post remain unsubstantiated. The claim "feds give $1B to Vale to kill jobs in Thompson" appears to be a FauxNews-esque misrepresentation of the facts.

Simply put, there is no reason to lay those people off. They could be redeployed, but they’d rather take a stab at busting the union than worry about long-standing workers and their families.

The blond woman in your video says (2:50 to 3:05) that workers are being redeployed into the mining operation.

If it was Shady’s job, he would be up in arms that the federal government was giving $1B to facilitate that job loss.

The billion dollar loan was to facilitate expansion of facilities, not to close the Thompson smelter.

By the way, some people seem to be portraying this as "evil multinational doesn't care about Canadian workers". But let me ask this: what makes you guys so sure that the Thompson smelter would be in any better shape if Vale hadn't bought out Inco?

To recap, this is a smelter and refinery that's too old to meet upcoming environmental regulations, has to import ore to keep operating, and is losing its supply of ore in 2013. How likely is it that Inco would have kept this smelter operating either?

Yet another reason why Canada should be kept for Canadians. The only people who benefit from these multinationals in the end are their shareholders.

Do you think the people who will be employed at the new $2.8 billion mill that Vale will be building in Labrador are going to be receiving some benefit?

Do you think the people who will be employed when Vale puts $3.4 billion into upgrading and expanding their operations in the Sudbury area will be receiving some benefit?

Do you think the people who will be employed by Vale's new potash operation in Saskatchewan will be receiving some benefit?

Are the people employed by Ford and GM plants receiving some benefit? Why don't we tell those Yankees to take their damned autoplants out of Canada?

I never said that there weren’t taxes paid out. I was responding to M.Dancers laughable statement that, unless you're a shareholder, you as a Canadian deserve nothing for letting these multinationals operate within Canada.

I think a lot of Canadians receive the benefit of having jobs to go to each morning.

-k

[Battletoads]

I think a lot of Canadians receive the benefit of having jobs to go to each morning.

-k

Yeah, think of those lucky Thompson residents.

[kimmy]

Yeah, think of those lucky Thompson residents.

What about those lucky residents of places in Saskatchewan and Ontario and Newfoundland that will have jobs because of the 10 billion dollars that Vale is investing in Canadian operations over the next 5 years?

Don't they matter?

Why not?

Is it because Michael Moore didn't do a sound-bite on their behalf?

-k

[BubberMiley]

The claims in your original post remain unsubstantiated. The claim "feds give $1B to Vale to kill jobs in Thompson" appears to be a FauxNews-esque misrepresentation of the facts.

The federal government has $1B worth of leverage to protect Vale jobs in Thompson. They prefer to let Vale try and bust the union. What other conclusion is there to draw from that?

The blond woman in your video says (2:50 to 3:05) that workers are being redeployed into the mining operation.

The reality is 1600 jobs in Thompson will be reduced to fewer than 1000, and the federal government donated $1B to make that happen.

Spin it how you like.

Edited March 8, 2011 by BubberMiley

[kimmy]

The federal government has $1B worth of leverage to protect Vale jobs in Thompson. They prefer to let Vale try and bust the union. What other conclusion is there to draw from that?

I've read nothing to support the claim that the $1B was to protect jobs at Thompson. The link I provided earlier explains that the $1B is a loan that is intended to expand Vale operations and finance projects that will use Canadian goods and services.

If you've got something to support your claim, please provide it.

The reality is 1600 jobs in Thompson will be reduced to fewer than 1000, and the federal government donated $1B to make that happen.

Spin it how you like.

Is it always "union busting" when people are laid off, or is that also spin?

-k

[Shady]

I stand by my original post.

Even though it has been demonstrated to be completely false and misleading.

Kimmy utterly destroyed your hit piece.

[madmax]

It seems like a stretch to say the feds gave them the money to kill jobs in Manitoba. It appears the money was to invest in Vale's operations in Canada, and operations abroad that would use Canadian products.

Been around the block too many times to be that naive. It is wishful thinking, it would be nice. People would like it. Fool me once....

However, we should always ask questions when public money is given to private enterprise. What will we actually get for our money? It appears that this is a loan... so what are the terms of its repayment? Will the loan actually be repaid at all, or are there loopholes?

-k

Way to much logic applied here.

Sorry, u will be disappointed.

[August1991]

The problems with these sorts of deals with massive US global companies is that the money isn't upfront - then you have the government GIVE THEM 1 Billion dollars....

The federal government's Export Development Corporation does not give away money. It loans money or offers loan guarantees.

Nevertheless, I agree with WA's intent here. EDC is a mammoth slush fund that allows federal politicians to play favourites with business people. A smart, strong-willed politician will sometime in the future shut this racket down. But I'm not holding my breath.

However, we should always ask questions when public money is given to private enterprise. What will we actually get for our money? It appears that this is a loan... so what are the terms of its repayment? Will the loan actually be repaid at all, or are there loopholes?

The loans are on favourable terms. To understand this in the real world, the EDC is the CMHC of business - except the EDC goes much further than CMHC and it exercises its power arbitrarily. Imagine that you want to negotiate a mortgage but the bank wants too much collateral or its interest rate is too high. Now, imagine if such a thing as the EDC existed for mortgages. You would apply to the EDC, and if approved, they would guarantee your mortgage or even get you a better rate at the bank. Why? Because they like your blue eyes.

This is how the political game is played in Canada. The BDC is another similar racket.

While I’m reluctant to respond because I enjoy it when Shady looks desperate, insecure and insane, I stand by my original post.

Simply put, there is no reason to lay those people off. They could be redeployed, but they’d rather take a stab at busting the union than worry about long-standing workers and their families.

If it was Shady’s job, he would be up in arms that the federal government was giving $1B to facilitate that job loss.

But that would mean he has a real job to lose.

"real job"? Bubbler, your post gets to the heart of the issue. And it's not about a $1 billion government subsidy.

No society will long survive when it encourages people to "destroy value". If you work five hours to dig holes, and then another five hours to fill the holes up, you may have a job but you are wasting your time and "destroying value". I don't know the entire story about the smelter in Thompson but if it's not profitable, then it would be foolish to continue to operate it. This is true regardless of who owns the smelter whether it's a Canadian, a Brazilian or someone from Timbuctoo.

Edited March 11, 2011 by August1991