When is Poland going to give back East Prussia to Germany?

[jbg]

As the Moody Blues once sang "(w)hy do we never get an answer when someone's knocking at the door..." in a song called "Question". DOP asked a question quoted below on the thread Israel continues to spit in the face of international law. GostHacked suggested, properly, avoiding thread drift. But I still want the question answered.

When is Poland going to give back East Prussia to Germany?

Let's stick to this issue shall we?

Thoughts?

[yarg]

Simply because for the first time in history that I am aware of we have a very privleged group of people who have convinced themselves that their own heritage is evil despite the fact that the acts of their ancestors, often acts of imperialism, have given them this privlege.

Edited May 22, 2010 by yarg

[jbg]

Simply because for the first time in history that I am aware of we have a very privleged group of people who have convinced themselves that their own heritage is evil despite the fact that the acts of their ancestors, often acts of imperialism, have given them this privlege.

Your post sounds interesting. Could you develop that thought a bit?

[Bonam]

When is Poland going to give back East Prussia to Germany?

I'd say right around the same time that Turkey gives Constantinople back to Rome.

Edited May 22, 2010 by Bonam

[jbg]

I'd say right around the same time that Turkey gives Constantinople back to Rome.

Of course the West is the one that is expected to surrender its gains to the various thugs and dictators. We gave back Hong Kong, the numerous African colonies, the numerous Asian colonies etc. And how many of the common people actually benefitted? Mugabe is Exhibit "A", Hong Kong Exhibit "B".

Even in the case of South Africa, how many people actually were helped by the demise of the morally indefensible system of apartheid?

And they've been looking to carve up Israel for how many years?

[eyeball]

Simply because for the first time in history that I am aware of we have a very privleged group of people who have convinced themselves that their own heritage is evil despite the fact that the acts of their ancestors, often acts of imperialism, have given them this privlege.

No that's not quite right. It's the similar acts of imperialism today that are maintaining that privilege that is evil - especially in light of our hindsight.

As far as our ancestors go I'm convinced most of them were a bunch of ignorant savages but that's about all. That's not so hard to forgive. Educated savages are another matter.

[Bonam]

Of course the West is the one that is expected to surrender its gains to the various thugs and dictators.

Expected by who? Only by itself. Everyone else just sees the weakness in this regard and so endlessly clamors for more because they know that by doing so they can get it.

Eventually "the West" (or at least some part thereof) will see its mistakes in this regard and cease to commit them, or it will continue and destroy itself in which case it was unworthy of continued existence and will perhaps be replaced by a more self-confident and assertive culture. Divvying up apparently contested areas of the Earth's surface is hardly the biggest challenge mankind will face if it is to survive for a significant period of time, and if the West can't even figure it out while it has the power to easily assert its will in this regard... well...

[August1991]

The more intriguing question is to ask why the one million Arabs living in Israel live arguably better than most Arabs elsewhere in the Middle East.

Israeli Arabs (about 20% of the Israeli population) are full citizens and have the right to vote. State schools provide education in Arabic as do State-owned television.

However one feels about Israel, to compare it to South Africa ("Israeli Apartheid") is simply wrong.

[Sir Bandelot]

Germany is not asking for it back.

[M.Dancer]

Germany is not asking for it back.

In related news....Jordan isn't asking for the west bank back.....

[Sir Bandelot]

The Palestinian Authority believes that the West Bank ought to be a part of their sovereign nation, and that the presence of Israeli military control is a violation of their right to Palestinian Authority rule.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank

Some good reading there, for the politically disadvantaged...

[jbg]

The Palestinian Authority believes that the West Bank ought to be a part of their sovereign nation, and that the presence of Israeli military control is a violation of their right to Palestinian Authority rule.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank

Some good reading there, for the politically disadvantaged...

If anyone is politically disadvantage it's the Jewish population of the world, and Israel. We are 1.9% of the U.S. and Canada's population and about 0.2% of the world's population. It's hard to see who's more disadvantaged than Israel and the Jewish people.

[sharkman]

The Palestinian Authority believes that the West Bank ought to be a part of their sovereign nation, and that the presence of Israeli military control is a violation of their right to Palestinian Authority rule.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank

Some good reading there, for the politically disadvantaged...

I wasn't aware that Jordon was part of the Palestinian Authority. Do you have some reading on this matter, I think I need to bone up.

[Sir Bandelot]

I wasn't aware that Jordon was part of the Palestinian Authority. Do you have some reading on this matter

If you want to talk about Jordan talk to MDcancer.

I think I need to bone up.

You need seomthin, alright. Thats another thread

[DogOnPorch]

If you want to talk about Jordan talk to MDcancer.

Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1949 and didn't give up claim to it until 1988. They lost it during the 1967 Six Day War, of course. The Palestinian Arabs that took refuge in Jordan attempted to take over the country by force. The Palestinian Arab's first leader, the Nazi al-Husseini, had Jordan's 1st king assassinated in 1951. One can't talk about one without talking about the other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_I_of_Jordan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Days_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan

[Sir Bandelot]

With the break-up of the Ottoman Empire at the end of World War I, the League of Nations and the occupying powers chose to redraw the borders of the Middle East. The ensuing decisions, most notably the Sykes–Picot Agreement, gave birth to the French Mandate of Syria and British Mandate of Palestine. More than 76% of the British Mandate of Palestine was east of the Jordan river and was known as "Transjordan". The Permanent Court of International Justice and an International Court of Arbitration established by the Council of the League of Nations handed down rulings in 1925 which determined that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created successor states of the Ottoman Empire as defined by international law

[Sir Bandelot]

Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1949 and didn't give up claim to it until 1988.

Likewise the Germans have given up their claim to Danzig.

[M.Dancer]

Likewise the Germans have given up their claim to Danzig.

Germans are smarter than palestinians...

[DogOnPorch]

Likewise the Germans have given up their claim to Danzig.

Being East Prussia is the heartland of Pomeranian and Teutonic culture, I wouldn't bet on that as an absolute.

Either way...that has nothing to do with Jordan's relevance to the Israeli-Palestinian Arab situation.

[DogOnPorch]

With the break-up of the Ottoman Empire at the end of World War I, the League of Nations and the occupying powers chose to redraw the borders of the Middle East. The ensuing decisions, most notably the Sykes–Picot Agreement, gave birth to the French Mandate of Syria and British Mandate of Palestine. More than 76% of the British Mandate of Palestine was east of the Jordan river and was known as "Transjordan". The Permanent Court of International Justice and an International Court of Arbitration established by the Council of the League of Nations handed down rulings in 1925 which determined that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created successor states of the Ottoman Empire as defined by international law

If Jordan really believed that there would have been a Palestinian Arab state in 1949.

[jbg]

If Jordan really believed that there would have been a Palestinian Arab state in 1949.

You don't remember the U.N. resolutions against Jordan during 1948-67 over this issue? The suicide attacks?

[WIP]

When is Poland going to give back East Prussia to Germany? Or, What Makes Israel Different

Thoughts?

One thought! How many Germans are living in East Prussia?

My grandparents on my mother's side, left that area after WWI when the Polish Corridor was created, and more left after the Soviet Union changed the borders....and that`s another point to consider, since the changing of the borders after WWII gave Russia much more Polish territory than the parcel of former German territory that was given to Poland. You see how complicated this could become! It wouldn`t merely involve the changing of borders between two countries -- three nations would have to agree to put everything back to the way it was before....and once again, how many Germans are living there now?

[jbg]

One thought! How many Germans are living in East Prussia?

My grandparents on my mother's side, left that area after WWI when the Polish Corridor was created, and more left after the Soviet Union changed the borders....and that`s another point to consider, since the changing of the borders after WWII gave Russia much more Polish territory than the parcel of former German territory that was given to Poland. You see how complicated this could become! It wouldn`t merely involve the changing of borders between two countries -- three nations would have to agree to put everything back to the way it was before....and once again, how many Germans are living there now?

My7 view is that getting anything back to some historical state is useless. If everyone went "back" to where they cam e from the Great Rift Valley of Africa would get quite crowded.

[bloodyminded]

If anyone is politically disadvantage it's the Jewish population of the world, and Israel. We are 1.9% of the U.S. and Canada's population and about 0.2% of the world's population. It's hard to see who's more disadvantaged than Israel and the Jewish people.

They're not disadvantaged, they're advantaged, particularly in comparison to the uncountable numbers of oppressed peoples around the globe. further, the Jewish people have managed to become relatively advantaged through their own strength and tenacity, and in the face of hatred that reached its apex only recently. Quite an achievement, and to be celebrated.

If you mean "disadvantaged" purely in terms of demographics, then ok. But that is not the commonly-understood connotations of such a loaded word.

Edited May 24, 2010 by bloodyminded

[jbg]

They're not disadvantaged, they're advantaged, particularly in comparison to the uncountable numbers of oppressed peoples around the globe. further, the Jewish people have managed to become relatively advantaged through their own strength and tenacity, and in the face of hatred that reached its apex only recently. Quite an achievement, and to be celebrated.

Why should the Jews be treated as being "advantaged"? Our percentage of the population is miniscule. Our ability to resist when the majority popularions rise up in a united manner against thew Jews is nil.

If you mean "disadvantaged" purely in terms of demographics, then ok. But that is not the commonly-understood connotations of such a loaded word.

That must be a consideration in any system based either on force or on voting.