Guest American Woman Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 He is still blaming others for his actions, which is BS....yes others did play a role in his life, but nobody , forced him into planting or making IED's or take part in that fire fight....it was all him...not mom, or dad....which will not be held accountable because this is Canada....and we don't have the policitcal will, or balls....So Omar it's all on you....He needs to step up and take responabilty for his actions.... He seems to blame everyone except his family. He denies that his father did anything wrong. Quote
bleeding heart Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) If I am understanding things correctly, some people on this forum are suggesting a 15 year old cannot make adult choices at all but magically at the age of 18 they suddenly can make "adult" decisions. Then, of course, you don't think there should be a legal drinking age, or an age at which someone cannot vote...what magically happens between 15 and 18 in which such rights and priveleges are arbitrarily allowed? At any rate, there are real, actually-exisitng psychological and neurological differences between a fifteen year old and an adult. So is your position that a 15 year old is too stupid to know the most basic of things? Like the difference between right and wrong. I personally do not think that there is much difference in the way a 15 year old thinks compared to how an 18 year old thinks. Please do tell me at what point in time a person becomes an adult? Again; drinking...and a slew of other "adult" rights and privelges. Why are you dodging this point? After all, it is germane to the very responses you're giving. Unless, as I've said, that you think a person that age should have the responsibilities of adults...but not the rights and priveleges of adults. And if this extremist statism and derision of individual rights is your stance...you should come out and say so. What day in a persons life is the day when their thinking suddenly changes? How is that a person cannot vote 1 day before they are 18 but suddenly they become capable and responsible when they turn 18? Is there a chemical or biological reaction that only occurs on the birthday? ??? That was my question. My point: adult responsibilities has to mean adult rights...you can't have it both ways...unless you're a totalitarian. Edited October 4, 2012 by bleeding heart Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
Peter F Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) The only thing this proves is that it is next to imposiable to prove anything that has happened on a battle field. There are no CSI teams, or investaigation teams that scour the battle field.....it is searched for intel then abandoned to the locals.... And yet Khadr was the only such combatant charged with murder? Perhaps no other combatant has ever been captured? or perhaps no other combatant murdered in an unprivledged way an american combatant? Even without CSI teams they charged Khadr for a combat death. He is the only one that has ever been charged - after what? 10 years of war in Afghanistan - as a murderer for a combat death. Whats up with that? Edited October 4, 2012 by Peter F Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
jacee Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 The only thing this proves is that it is next to imposiable to prove anything that has happened on a battle field. There are no CSI teams, or investaigation teams that scour the battle field.....it is searched for intel then abandoned to the locals.... _______________________ http://www.talkleft....7/12/2278/68899 Not sure what your piont is here the first statement says that the rules are so unfair they will will depress you into condessing to anything.....the statement below does not sound like it came from a depressed little boy to me, in fact he does not sound depressed at all.... ___________ He is still blaming others for his actions, which is BS....yes others did play a role in his life, but nobody , forced him into planting or making IED's or take part in that fire fight....it was all him...not mom, or dad....which will not be held accountable because this is Canada....and we don't have the policitcal will, or balls....So Omar it's all on you....He needs to step up and take responabilty for his actions.... He did. Omar pleaded guilty, sentenced, serving time ... on top of 10 years in Guantanamo. He was forced into training in Pakistan then put into combat in Afghanistan at 10 years of age. War is hell ... for adults. For kids ...? Forcing children into combat is a crime. The war's over. Don't you think it's time to cut him just a bit of slack, Army Guy? We all know the real criminal is his father, now dead. We all hate that sometimes our soldiers face children in battle, and children kill. But this isn't a battlefield, and yes, he was forced to fight and I believe that now he deserves a chance to finally have a chance to have a life of his own. Quote
Signals.Cpl Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 Then, of course, you don't think there should be a legal drinking age, or an age at which someone cannot vote...what magically happens between 15 and 18 in which such rights and priveleges are arbitrarily allowed? At any rate, there are real, actually-exisitng psychological and neurological differences between a fifteen year old and an adult. As far as I understand it, drinking is not allowed for people under 18/19 depending on province because it could hurt their development at a biological level whereas making decisions does not really hurt them. My view is that people are given "adult" decisions at 18 so that they can get experience being adults without the decisions hanging over their heads, not because they are too stupid to make those decisions. Again; drinking...and a slew of other "adult" rights and privelges. As I mentioned above, 18 is an arbitrary date that was chosen to become an adult, drinking before 18 has consequences that would be negative to their development and health even in moderation. As for the others, as I said voting I don't see a difference between 15 and 18 year olds way of thinking. Now the most controversial one is the age of consent, and this is where I don't think we should have it at 16 but at 20+, not because a 15 or 16 year old cannot make an informed decision about potential sex partner, but because a 15-19 year olds generally do not have the means to take care of the consequences(kids) due to lack of education which means that no education=no good job... Why are you dodging this point? After all, it is germane to the very responses you're giving. If your kids are 15, do you keep them on a leash? And I mean a real leash around their neck like a dog because they are too stupid to make ANY decisions? Or is this limited only to Mr. Khadr? Unless, as I've said, that you think a person that age should have the responsibilities of adults...but not the rights and priveleges of adults. I am all for that, a person should have the responsibilities of an adult as soon as it becomes obvious that they have the mental capacity to do so. Rights and privileges should be earned through good decisions and actions rather than through arbitrary naming an age where you become an adult. And if this extremist statism and derision of individual rights is your stance...you should come out and say so. I dont understand your point here, my position is that a 15 year old is an adult and should be treated as such, 18 is an arbitrary number that someone dreamed up as the age of becoming an adult. If you treat a 15-17 year old as an idiot who is unable to make any decisions, then they will not be able to make any decisions even after they turn 18. ???That was my question. My point: adult responsibilities has to mean adult rights...you can't have it both ways...unless you're a totalitarian. There are somethings I believe that we could give 15 year olds and have no major change in the way things are run, but there are other"rights and privileges" that should be restricted to those who can manage the consequences and there are some things that are and should be denied, not because they are in capable of making a decision, but because they are unable to deal with the consequences due to missing an important factor(education,job...). Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 And yet Khadr was the only such combatant charged with murder? Perhaps no other combatant has ever been captured? or perhaps no other combatant murdered in an unprivledged way an american combatant? Even without CSI teams they charged Khadr for a combat death. He is the only one that has ever been charged - after what? 10 years of war in Afghanistan - as a murderer for a combat death. Whats up with that? How do you know he is the only one ever charged? Others could have been charged but no one pretends to give a shit because they are not our favourite little terrorist. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
bleeding heart Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) As I mentioned above, 18 is an arbitrary date that was chosen to become an adult, drinking before 18 has consequences that would be negative to their development and health even in moderation. Irrelevant to your "adults" argument...antithetical to it, in fact. If, as you say, they are adults, then the nanny state shouldn't be determining what isn't allowed based solely on their age. They're adults; they want to hurt their bodies through alcohol; that's their business. As for the others, as I said voting I don't see a difference between 15 and 18 year olds way of thinking. Now the most controversial one is the age of consent, and this is where I don't think we should have it at 16 but at 20+, not because a 15 or 16 year old cannot make an informed decision about potential sex partner, but because a 15-19 year olds generally do not have the means to take care of the consequences(kids) due to lack of education which means that no education=no good job... But you also don't believe in the concept of statutory rape. After all, how could it be a crime to have consensual sex with an adult? So that's out the window. I am all for that, a person should have the responsibilities of an adult as soon as it becomes obvious that they have the mental capacity to do so. Rights and privileges should be earned through good decisions and actions rather than through arbitrary naming an age where you become an adult. Well then that has to happen first, before we go any further with the adult responsibility business. First, we have to change the laws, giving fifteen year olds the rightrs of an adult. And only then can we start charging them with adult responsibility. Which means we can't yet do so. I dont understand your point here, my position is that a 15 year old is an adult and should be treated as such, 18 is an arbitrary number that someone dreamed up as the age of becoming an adult. If you treat a 15-17 year old as an idiot who is unable to make any decisions, then they will not be able to make any decisions even after they turn 18. Except sex, in yoru world. Can't go that far, nosiree. Do you even see how hypocritical your argument is, from beginning to end? Edited October 4, 2012 by bleeding heart Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
wyly Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) Do you even see how hypocritical your argument is, from beginning to end? a certain irony here, you're debating with an "adult" who can't see how hypocritical/ludicrous his argument is, yet he thinks a 15yr old can make adult logical decisions...an adult who can't string a logical argument together or even vaguely comprehend the legal contradictions he's proposing... Edited October 4, 2012 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
jacee Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 How do you know he is the only one ever charged? Others could have been charged but no one pretends to give a shit because they are not our favourite little terrorist. Read the thread ... Of the 2,000 Americans and (150-plus Canadians) killed in Afghanistan,Mr. Khadr is the only captured enemy to have been charged with murder for a combat death. http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/omar-khadrs-return-an-unavoidable-evil/article4578639/?service=mobile Also you might have missed this: Omar's father put him into Al Quaeda training camp as a young child, and put him into combat in Afghanistan AT 10 YEARS OF AGE. As his older brother found out, the price of rebelling against his father was to be 'volunteered' as a suicide bomb. Can it be any more clear? The Khadr children were forced to become combatants for Al Quaeda under threat of death. Quote
bleeding heart Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 a certain irony here, you're debating with an "adult" who can't see how hypocritical/ludicrous his argument is, yet he thinks a 15yr old can make adult logical decisions. Actually, that never occurred to me. Good catch. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
Guest American Woman Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) The Khadr children were forced to become combatants for Al Quaeda under threat of death. Who was threatening him/them? Edited October 4, 2012 by American Woman Quote
Peter F Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 How do you know he is the only one ever charged? Others could have been charged but no one pretends to give a shit because they are not our favourite little terrorist. I suppose others could very well have been charged. But if they have then the people doing the charging have kept it secret and thus your favourite terrorist lover has no knowledge of them being charged. Or, it could be, that no one outside of Khadr and Jawad was charged murder by an unpriviledged combatant. Since I have never heard of anyone being charged like that I assume no one has been charged since Khadr. You also have not heard of anyone being charged but assume that there must be some somewhere. Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
Fletch 27 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 There were NO threats made.. That comment could come from a terrorist sympathizer. Maybe some of the Khadr supporters on here should simply you-tube or "wiki" the comments made by his Sister and mother,, who currently reside in Scarborough.. Once a sympathizer, always a sympathizer... regardless of the facts and positions of thier beloved terrorists.. Who was threatening him/them? Quote
jacee Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 Maybe some of the Khadr supporters on here should simply you-tube or "wiki" the comments made by his Sister and mother,, who currently reside in Scarborough. You are making my point: Elders (mother, father) forced Omar into AlQuaeda training, and into combat at 10 years of age Thanks. Quote
Fletch 27 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 Didnt bother to "you-tube" the sister did you.... This little SOB was 2 months from 16.. an age where you can drive a car, In whatever fasion you choose. But when you KILL someone with that car.. you can get 8 years or more... Vehicular manslaughter.. This little SOB killed and he had his whits about him... Continue down that path with your blinders on... Hitler had a VERY rough childhood.... Whats your opinion on his deeds? You are making my point: Elders (mother, father) forced Omar into AlQuaeda training, and into combat at 10 years of age Thanks. Quote
jacee Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 Didnt bother to "you-tube" the sister did you.... Irrelevant This little SOB was 2 months from 16.. an age where you can drive a car, In whatever fasion you choose. But when you KILL someone with that car.. you can get 8 years or more... Vehicular manslaughter. Omar was 10 years old when illegally forced into combat. Child soldiers may be no different than any others when they're shooting at you, but once apprehended there are special considerations to be applied. There was no special consideration given to Omar Khadr: Shot in the back 3 times, illegally interrogated and tortured, 10 years in Gitmo + an 8 year sentence ... and still you complain? Give it a rest! Quote
Signals.Cpl Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 I suppose others could very well have been charged. But if they have then the people doing the charging have kept it secret and thus your favourite terrorist lover has no knowledge of them being charged. Or, it could be, that no one outside of Khadr and Jawad was charged murder by an unpriviledged combatant. Since I have never heard of anyone being charged like that I assume no one has been charged since Khadr. You also have not heard of anyone being charged but assume that there must be some somewhere. Google. Use it. in 35s of searching there are a number of people terrorists charged or convicted of murder by the US and other western Nations. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Fletch 27 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 Yes, Im complaining as it should have remained at the full 40 years in Jail. If he was forced... at "exactly what age".. would he say... "Not" have been forced? Do you have an age in mind? Irrelevant Omar was 10 years old when illegally forced into combat. Child soldiers may be no different than any others when they're shooting at you, but once apprehended there are special considerations to be applied. There was no special consideration given to Omar Khadr: Shot in the back 3 times, illegally interrogated and tortured, 10 years in Gitmo + an 8 year sentence ... and still you complain? Give it a rest! Quote
GostHacked Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 If I am understanding things correctly, some people on this forum are suggesting a 15 year old cannot make adult choices at all but magically at the age of 18 they suddenly can make "adult" decisions. I know many adults that cannot make adult decisions. Quote
Signals.Cpl Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 Irrelevant to your "adults" argument...antithetical to it, in fact. How is it irrelevant? If, as you say, they are adults, then the nanny state shouldn't be determining what isn't allowed based solely on their age. When it does not come to whether or not it’s right or wrong but it comes down to being dangerous to the health of developing bodies intervention is required. They're adults; they want to hurt their bodies through alcohol; that's their business. Then why can’t I go and get some crack cocaine? I’m 25 and am an adult so why is it that I cannot go and purchase it from my neighborhood pharmacy? But you also don't believe in the concept of statutory rape. If the age of consent is at age 21 or higher than that becomes irrelevant. After all, how could it be a crime to have consensual sex with an adult? Easy, if you cannot take care of the consequences then you don’t get to engage in the act simple as that, and the assumption is that by age 21-22 a person should be well established with at least a reasonable chance of obtaining employment, something that is not available to them at age 16 simply because they haven’t completed the necessary schooling. Well then that has to happen first, before we go any further with the adult responsibility business. So you think that rights and privileges make an adult? So by your reasoning adult in Ontario are 19 and over because at 18 they are not trusted to make proper decisions regarding drinking and smoking until 19... so how does that work? They are not adults until all their rights and privileges are given to them? First, we have to change the laws, giving fifteen year olds the rightrs of an adult. Or you give the 15 year old the chance to prove themselves as an adult and punish them if they screw up letting them know what is expected of them. Waiting until the age of 18 to treat someone like an adult means that you expect that there is a magic overnight change that makes someone an adult. It's not an event but rather a process, years in the making. And only then can we start charging them with adult responsibility. Until the age of 19 people are idiots and thus cannot be trusted to be adults? Which means we can't yet do so. So we expect them to act like apes, because they are stupid little children who cannot be trusted to know the difference between right and wrong, that is until they turn 19 because then they get the final right to drink. Except sex, in yoru world. Can't go that far, nosiree. Being ready to make the decision does not make you ready to deal with the consequences. There are plenty of 15 and 16 year old who can make good decisions, but when you don’t have a high school education then you become a burden to the state which means the state has a say in the whole affair. Do you even see how hypocritical your argument is, from beginning to end? Do you realize how idiotic your argument is? That suddenly on your 18th birthday you become an adult or your 19th birthday in Ontario. Playing the you are not an adult at 17y and 360 days but suddenly you are an adult and should act like one at age 18 is ridiculous. Using your argument, none of us are adults until we can all go in to a pharmacy and buy crack cocaine, LSD and every other drug known to man because we should be given the choice to take said drugs. There are certain restrictions that should be placed for the good of the individual regardless their age, and there are certain restrictions placed on the individual for the good of the state regardless of their age , placing certain restrictions does not make one a child, and giving some freedoms does not make one an adult. I would like to ask you to present evidence that at age 15 people are unable to determine what is right and what is wrong, and act accordingly. Please inform me why certain 18 and under individuals are fit to be held accountable for their actions not under one but two justice systems while others are too stupid to be held accountable for their actions in front of one system? Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 I know many adults that cannot make adult decisions. So because they are idiots do we void them of all responsibility as adults? Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 You are making my point: Elders (mother, father) forced Omar into AlQuaeda training, and into combat at 10 years of age Thanks. so he was 10 in 2002? I think your info is a little off... Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Fletch 27 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 I think he was maybe a "pre-pubescent soldier".. Or "Adolesent Soldier"? Maybe that s stretching it... Most have pubes at 15... Meaning that they can procreate... like a big boy.. Teen-soldier... Seems he has captured the hearts of many a fair-maidens on this site.. The Khadr-tattoo will be huge in 2013.. "I heart Khadr",,, As will his band when he's released.. "Boys 2 Men, with C4" so he was 10 in 2002? I think your info is a little off... Quote
guyser Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 This little SOB was 2 months from 16.. Uh..no you cant an age where you can drive a car, In whatever fasion you choose. Uh no you cannot. I suppose there was some sort of a point being attempted? Quote
Fletch 27 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Posted October 4, 2012 Please, when quoting me,,, please dont cut and edit to make your point... Here is my gramatically correct sentence that you butchered to suit your cause: This little SOB was 2 months from 16.. an age where you can drive a car Yes, at 16, here in "Khanadar" we can drive at 16. Please stop the selfish edits .... Uh..no you cant Uh no you cannot. I suppose there was some sort of a point being attempted? Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.