War made easy

[bloodyminded]

You didn't know. Don't project. AS well, that's hindsight knowing that #, that's 150K over 5 years of violence.

As well, from not knowing to knowing, the US ended military sales of weapons likely to be used against civiliansin the aerly 90s.

Nope. They ended the gift (not "sales") of weapons known to be used (not "likely to be used") in September 1999.

[M.Dancer]

Nope. They ended the gift (not "sales") of weapons known to be used (not "likely to be used") in September 1999.

Ho hum....

Responding to Congressional and citizen pressure, in 1994 the U.S. State Department banned the sale to Indonesia of small arms, riot gear, and other "crowd control" technologies which could be used to commit human rights abuses

http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/indonesia.htm

[M.Dancer]

Is a bad education system the other element?

Are you a friend of Benny?

[bloodyminded]

Ho hum....

http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/indonesia.htm

Ho hum indeed. You didn't keep reading the very link you provided.

Did your eyes get tired?

A very, very short bit after what you (selectively) quote:

"President Clinton finally decided to cut off all arms sales and other military ties to Indonesia two weeks after the August 30, 1999 referendum in East Timor and associated violence"

Oops.

[M.Dancer]

Ho hum indeed. You didn't keep reading the very link you provided.

Did your eyes get tired?

A very, very short bit after what you (selectively) quote:

"President Clinton finally decided to cut off all arms sales and other military ties to Indonesia two weeks after the August 30, 1999 referendum in East Timor and associated violence"

Oops.

Read what I wrote before you nake yourself look even more brainless.

As well, from not knowing to knowing, the US ended military sales of weapons likely to be used against civiliansin the aerly 90s.

[bloodyminded]

Read what I wrote before you nake yourself look even more brainless.

You should take up a new hobby besides shilling for Western complicity in mass murder.

Let's try to decode your "argument" such as it is:

Citing human rights abuses (but ignoring the fact that they were DIRECTLY culpable in the abuses; and ignoring the fact that the "human rights abuses" included a mass slaughter that made Milosevic look Like Ghandi), the administration broke the tradition of 20 years and four other administrations (Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 1) and halted certain arms shipments.

Not out of altruism, M.Dancer, but because their intentional support of genocide was beginning to gain a tiny bit of attention.

So they said it was still ok to ship "larger, more expensive weapons, such as F-16 fighter/bomber jets."

Hmm. "Such as."

Meaning, by definition, other items as well, here redacted for our reading pleasure.

Then, "The administration claims that F-16s are not likely to be used to commit human rights abuses, and during 1996-97 it advocated the sale of nine of the aircraft to Indonesia. On 6 June of this year, citing criticism from the U.S. Congress, Indonesia canceled its order for the jets."

So Indonesia--presumably knowing which way the public winds were blowing, and eager to appease their Masters in Washington, cancelled its order.

At the behest of the Republican-led Congress, according to this.

So the Republicans were aware that the jets were a problem?

Or, much more likley, the unspoken "such as" mysteriously unmentioned items might have been some problem.

At any rate, the Republicans (albeit for purely partisan reasons, themselves being wholly culpable in mass slaughter there) thought there WAS a serious issue.

And all this rather misses the point anyway: that the US, UK, Australia, Canada, et al helped the Indonesian military with genocide, knowing it was occurring.

It ceased when people criticized it and complained about it...the things that seem to unaccountably offend you. (Better we let our leaders support killing at will, I suppose.)

Aint' that grand?

Edited December 23, 2009 by bloodyminded

[M.Dancer]

Citing human rights abuses (but ignoring the fact that they were DIRECTLY culpable in the abuses; and ignoring the fact that the "human rights abuses" included a mass slaughter that made Milosevic look Like Ghandi), the administration broke the tradition of 20 years and four other administrations (Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 1) and halted certain arms shipments.

Not out of altruism, M.Dancer, but because their intentional support of genocide was beginning to gain a tiny bit of attention.

That's exactly it.

Now you could argue that it was because the media wasn't covering the story that pressure was put on the US government, or you could argue that because of increased awareness of the story, political pressure was put on the government. Pick the one most likely.

An tiny bit of attention. Is that all it takes to change foreign policy is a tiny bit of attention? I guess in your mind no one covered Iraq at all, at all...cause they didn't change their policy there one iota..

So, you still want to argue the story wasn't being covered?

[bloodyminded]

That's exactly it.

An tiny bit of attention. Is that all it takes to change foreign policy is a tiny bit of attention? I guess in your mind no one covered Iraq at all, at all...cause they didn't change their policy there one iota..

So, you still want to argue the story wasn't being covered?

I never argued the story wasn't being covered. I argued that it was interesting how pro-Western anti-genocide news was everywhere, at the same time we were complicit in genocide.

And the likely reason for the policy change is that, unlike Iraq, there was no decent cover story, aside from citing the phrase "Cold War" in the usual laughable manner. How was the government to spin "support for genocide"?

Better to quit while you're ahead and hope the story doesn't gain much traction.

And this hope proved worthwhile. Few people are aware of it; and those who are (like yourself) are unappreciative of its scope and its horror.

Edited December 23, 2009 by bloodyminded

[Shwa]

Just for fun...

Hansard Daily from the 35th Parliament, 1st Session:

December 7th, 1994 - EAST TIMOR

Mr. Svend J. Robinson (Burnaby-Kingsway, NDP): Mr. Speaker, today marks the 19th anniversary of the Indonesian invasion of East Timor. Since 1974, over 200,000 people, one-third of the population, have died in the genocide. Recent reports indicate that the repression continues with acts such as shutting down key media outlets, banning trade unions and arresting union leaders.

At the recent APEC summit, Canada managed to secure a number of important contracts but the silence on human rights abuses was deafening.

The situation in East Timor received international attention during the APEC meeting, but with the international spotlight gone the Indonesian government can continue to repress the people of East Timor.

It is imperative that pressure be put on now. Canada should end its arms sales to Indonesia and support an international embargo. We should put pressure on the Indonesian government to release all political prisoners, in particular Xanana Gusmao, leader of the independence movement. Canada should support independence and self-determination for the people of East Timor and show full respect for UN Resolutions 389 and 384.

35th Parliament, 2nd Session:

May 30th, 1996

Hon. Lloyd Axworthy (Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, let me first point out that on several occasions members of this government have raised the issue of human rights in East Timor. The Prime Minister when he was there last summer took the occasion to make the Canadian concerns well known.

As far as arms exports are concerned, I would suggest that we probably have the toughest arms export guidelines and controls of any developed country. We intend to apply them exactly as they are meant to be applied, which is very strictly according to the letter of the law.

36th Parliament, 1st Session

December 5th, 1997

Mr. Daniel Turp (BeauharnoisSalaberry, BQ): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Yesterday, the minister stated in this House that Canada had, and I quote:

The toughest export controls in arms of any country in the western world.

If these controls are so tough, how can the minister explain that arms sales to Indonesia totalling approximately $2 billion have been authorized when Amnesty International reports that, in East Timor, a number of people have been killed under dubious circumstances by security forces?

Hon. Lloyd Axworthy (Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, under the export controls that we exercise, we do a careful evaluation as to any piece of article or artefact, determining whether it could be used for involvement in civil wars, involvement in the suppression of civil society. If it is simply a matter of a piece of equipment that could be a rubber boot or a parachute or some kind of electronic device for a ship, then clearly it is not eligible. It is for defensive purposes, not offensive purposes...

36th Parliament, 2nd Session

May 10th, 2000

Mr. Svend J. Robinson (BurnabyDouglas, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present petitions today which are signed by several hundred Canadians from coast to coast to coast on the subject of East Timor.

The petitioners note that the Indonesian military occupied East Timor for over 23 years in violation of UN Security Council resolutions resulting in the death of over one-third of East Timor's population.

They go on to note the participation of over 98% of eligible East Timorese in a referendum voting for independence and the ongoing human rights violations by the Indonesian military and their militia.

The petitioners therefore request that parliament call for a formal military embargo which would revoke all outstanding military export permits issued for sales of military goods to Indonesia, ensure that there are no new export permits issued for sale of military goods to Indonesia, ensure that companies which have already negotiated contracts to supply military goods will be withheld, suspend all Canadian co-operation and ties with the armed forces of Indonesia and would require consultation in parliament before being lifted.

Finally, the petitioners request that parliament work for an international military embargo against Indonesia.

Edited December 23, 2009 by Shwa

[bloodyminded]

Just for fun...

Hansard Daily from the 35th Parliament, 1st Session:

December 7th, 1994 - EAST TIMOR

Mr. Svend J. Robinson (Burnaby-Kingsway, NDP): Mr. Speaker, today marks the 19th anniversary of the Indonesian invasion of East Timor. Since 1974, over 200,000 people, one-third of the population, have died in the genocide. Recent reports indicate that the repression continues with acts such as shutting down key media outlets, banning trade unions and arresting union leaders.

At the recent APEC summit, Canada managed to secure a number of important contracts but the silence on human rights abuses was deafening.

The situation in East Timor received international attention during the APEC meeting, but with the international spotlight gone the Indonesian government can continue to repress the people of East Timor.

It is imperative that pressure be put on now. Canada should end its arms sales to Indonesia and support an international embargo. We should put pressure on the Indonesian government to release all political prisoners, in particular Xanana Gusmao, leader of the independence movement. Canada should support independence and self-determination for the people of East Timor and show full respect for UN Resolutions 389 and 384.

35th Parliament, 2nd Session:

May 30th, 1996

Hon. Lloyd Axworthy (Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, let me first point out that on several occasions members of this government have raised the issue of human rights in East Timor. The Prime Minister when he was there last summer took the occasion to make the Canadian concerns well known.

As far as arms exports are concerned, I would suggest that we probably have the toughest arms export guidelines and controls of any developed country. We intend to apply them exactly as they are meant to be applied, which is very strictly according to the letter of the law.

36th Parliament, 1st Session

December 5th, 1997

Mr. Daniel Turp (Beauharnois—Salaberry, BQ): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Yesterday, the minister stated in this House that Canada had, and I quote:

“The toughest export controls in arms of any country in the western world”.

If these controls are so tough, how can the minister explain that arms sales to Indonesia totalling approximately $2 billion have been authorized when Amnesty International reports that, in East Timor, a number of people have been killed under dubious circumstances by security forces?

Hon. Lloyd Axworthy (Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, under the export controls that we exercise, we do a careful evaluation as to any piece of article or artefact, determining whether it could be used for involvement in civil wars, involvement in the suppression of civil society. If it is simply a matter of a piece of equipment that could be a rubber boot or a parachute or some kind of electronic device for a ship, then clearly it is not eligible. It is for defensive purposes, not offensive purposes...

36th Parliament, 2nd Session

May 10th, 2000

Mr. Svend J. Robinson (Burnaby—Douglas, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present petitions today which are signed by several hundred Canadians from coast to coast to coast on the subject of East Timor.

The petitioners note that the Indonesian military occupied East Timor for over 23 years in violation of UN Security Council resolutions resulting in the death of over one-third of East Timor's population.

They go on to note the participation of over 98% of eligible East Timorese in a referendum voting for independence and the ongoing human rights violations by the Indonesian military and their militia.

The petitioners therefore request that parliament call for a formal military embargo which would revoke all outstanding military export permits issued for sales of military goods to Indonesia, ensure that there are no new export permits issued for sale of military goods to Indonesia, ensure that companies which have already negotiated contracts to supply military goods will be withheld, suspend all Canadian co-operation and ties with the armed forces of Indonesia and would require consultation in parliament before being lifted.

Finally, the petitioners request that parliament work for an international military embargo against Indonesia.

Thanks, very interesting.

[Michael Hardner]

Communism is a dictatorship. I still believe in democracy, I'm not the biggest fan of our current democracy. We should be electing ideas not people, ideas are bulletproof.

How would that happen ? Give me details.

John Lennon does sing one of my favourite songs "Imagine".

And it really is easy to initiate policy, all it takes is a choice.

"I'd say we're in a similar position with peace as well."

I'm not to sure what you mean by this.

Lennon spoke of peace as a value that needed to be held by the population at large as a precursor to having it happen as policy. [my paraphrasing of his words] Similarly, with hunger we need to take the same approach in order to get similar measures of success - and I do mean success if you look at the world today versus 1970.

All these current models are still based on money. I think money is the problem. I understand what money has done for us up until now, but we have gone to far with it. It is Profit before People now.

Millions are dieing for monetary reasons, it isn't worth it.

This is a pretty good system.

I guess it is how you perceive 'em.

Evil comes from Fear.

You can't dismiss every conspiracy.

Love is our proton, fear is our electron.

Every decision anyone makes comes down to Love or Fear.

Life isn't as complicating as we make it out to be.

I have mistrust for the western governments because look at what they are doing.

We are starting Wars. We are killing for power and profit(greed).

Can you do me a favour? Listen to these 4 songs and tell me what you think? maybe look up the lyrics as well.

Sum41 "No Reason"

Sum41 "We're all to Blame"

Muse "Uprising"

Muse "Unnatural Selection"

I think everyone can agree there are problems with how the world works. For some reason we don't seem to realize it is us who creates these problems.

Most problems are symptoms of society and yes the Ruling Class more or less controls society.

I'm gonna say it again, they use fear to control us. Love is our resistance.

People like Bush_Chaney have to realize there is no difference between a Canadian and American, or any one else on the world. We are the same.

Rush

"And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start, to mold a new reality closer to the heart".

It really is a choice between Love and Fear.

We have to know our enemy, believe me, our enemy is not Al Qaeda...

The rest of your post is about values more than policy. I think that's a good tack for you to follow, as policy changes are complicated and mundane and you don't appear to be as interested in that. I support the idea that values need to change as a foundation to changing the world.

But as the Beatles said, you say you want a revolution oh well you know we all want to change the world...

[Shwa]

But as the Beatles said, you say you want a revolution oh well you know we all want to change the world...

And the Who said, meet the new boss - same as the old boss.

[M.Dancer]

And the Who said, meet the new boss - same as the old boss.

And the Beastie Boys said You gotta fight, for your right, to partay.

[maple_leafs182]

How would that happen ? Give me details.

We would think of what we could do to make life better for man, nature and the planet

pollution would have to end, poverty, war too. We(the people) would find solutions to these problems, our scientists, engineers and whoever would all work together, at the end we would arrive at an Idea.

That is democracy.

Idea's are bulletproof,

John Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr., John Lennon...they are not

Lennon spoke of peace as a value that needed to be held by the population at large as a precursor to having it happen as policy. [my paraphrasing of his words] Similarly, with hunger we need to take the same approach in order to get similar measures of success - and I do mean success if you look at the world today versus 1970.

I agree, but I don't think we have progressed nearly enough from the 1970's to now.

The rest of your post is about values more than policy. I think that's a good tack for you to follow, as policy changes are complicated and mundane and you don't appear to be as interested in that. I support the idea that values need to change as a foundation to changing the world.

They are not Values, they are perspectives.

If policy you mean government intervention and there regulations.

We can't rely on our government to make these changes,

As you can see the current state of the world isn't very good, and there is a good chance it will get a lot worse in the coming years. (We're in a Depression, the very beginning of it. need proof?)

But we can't comprehend that corrupt governments and corrupt private banking institutions run the world.

We have the mentality "that can't happen to me", but if we look throughout history this kind of corruption happens time and time again.

If people were more open minded and look into this in they would be able to see it so clearly.

If you don't understand how central banks run the world, watch this movie.

If you watch just one of my movies i post, make it this one.

But as the Beatles said, you say you want a revolution oh well you know we all want to change the world...

Some say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one, I hope someday you'd join us, and the world can be as one...

Love or Fear?

The choice is ours.

[M.Dancer]

What's with tr00thers and their assinie you tube videos?

[maple_leafs182]

What's with tr00thers and their assinie you tube videos?

If you can prove me wrong, i would love to hear it.

[bush_cheney2004]

What's with tr00thers and their assinie you tube videos?

Some are lost souls who can't cope with reality. Fortunately, most are perfectly healthy and are just trying to make a buck on the fools who can't cope!

[bush_cheney2004]

If you can prove me wrong, i would love to hear it.

What was JFK dreaming about at The Bay of Bigs invasion of Cuba? Just wondering....

[Michael Hardner]

We would think of what we could do to make life better for man, nature and the planet

pollution would have to end, poverty, war too. We(the people) would find solutions to these problems, our scientists, engineers and whoever would all work together, at the end we would arrive at an Idea.

That is democracy.

Idea's are bulletproof,

John Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr., John Lennon...they are not

I agree, but I don't think we have progressed nearly enough from the 1970's to now.

They are not Values, they are perspectives.

If policy you mean government intervention and there regulations.

We can't rely on our government to make these changes,

As you can see the current state of the world isn't very good, and there is a good chance it will get a lot worse in the coming years. (We're in a Depression, the very beginning of it. need proof?)

You say tomato, I say tomahto. Yes, your perspectives are useful in the arena of poetry and beautiful thoughts. Kind of like Lennon, with - as I'm sure you'd admit - a fraction of the talent.

But we can't comprehend that corrupt governments and corrupt private banking institutions run the world.

We have the mentality "that can't happen to me", but if we look throughout history this kind of corruption happens time and time again.

If people were more open minded and look into this in they would be able to see it so clearly.

If you don't understand how central banks run the world, watch this movie.

If you watch just one of my movies i post, make it this one.

Some say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one, I hope someday you'd join us, and the world can be as one...

Love or Fear?

The choice is ours.

The thing about Lennon, though, was he was *positive*... that's an attractive quality of his work. Nobody would have listened to the nervous rantings of a paranoid hippy put to bad verse.

[Michael Hardner]

What's with tr00thers and their assinie you tube videos?

Propaganda works best when shown with emotion-laden images and sounds, and when there is no counterpoint or objection to the views presented. Or evidence.

This is why I usually reject argument-by-YouTube outright. If you can't make your point with a few sentences and a link, the chances are high that you don't have one.

[maple_leafs182]

great job on the open minded part.

All these recessions and depressions since the 1913 have been scientifically created.

The central bankers control economy's threw inflation and deflation.

Central Banks control world economies by having monopolies over the printing of nations moneys.

They Don't just supply a nation with money, they loan a Nation it's money at interest.

Where do these nations get the money to pay back the interest?

From the Central banks.

Central banks have to perpetually increase the money supply over time to cover those debts. This is why stuff was so much cheaper in the 50's. Inflation.

They control interest rates.

They create bubbles with interest rates.

***We should not have interest rates this low. We can't keep spending money we don't have. Debt is the problem, not the solution.***

The problem we are in now was because American's were buying stuff they couldn't afford with money they didn't have threw loans. Then when people lost jobs and couldn't afford to pay back the loans. Houses were seized, house prices dropped bringing down the economy.

We are creating another bubble by encouraging spending to "stimulate" the economy.

They are inflating the american dollar and many other nations currency with these bailouts. How do you guys not see this.

This will be a horrible depression if we don't do anything about it.

This will be a global depression, the american dollar, the world reserve currency will soon hyper inflate, probably within 2 years, nobody will be able to afford oil in america, and since we allow the world to be ran off oil(the electric car came out 1997) America's economy will collapse, they too are the largest economy in the world, bringing America down will bring many world economies down with it. Total chaos.

“The Colonists would gladly have borne the little tax on tea and other matters had it not been that England took away from the colonies their money which created unemployment and dissatisfaction. The inability of the colonists to get power to issue their own money permanently out of the hands of George III and the international bankers was the PRIME reason for the Revolutionary War." –Benjamin Franklin

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” –Thomas Jefferson

We allowed private banks to control money world wide. They control the world economies, they are creating a global depression. My assumption is they will eventually talk us into having a global currency backed with political support, to ensure nothing like this happens again. it will be for security purposes, and since people will be frightened(fear), they will believe them.

Maybe martial law in america maybe a civil war?

They are trying to pass a form of gun control in the states.

The Gun Trafficking Prevention Act of 2009.

They say it's to keep illegal guns off the street.

The problem isn't guns, it is the fact drugs are illegal. We create the underground market, which leads to gangs and violence.

Hey guess what, the government is screwing us over again.

The right of the people to bare arms in the united states was to protect them from government.

They just previously fought a tyrannical government, they knew the american people may have to do it again.

How many countries have had gun control and later had holocaust or genocides.

http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm

I'm being serious, this stuff should not be taken lightly.

One world government and one world economy is what they are working toward,

And they are getting it. This climate change crap is a scam.

Treaties will be the first step towards a world government.

Don't get me wrong, i'm all for not polluting, but is this really the only solution to stop polluting?

This will create a trillion dollar industry, it's all about money and control

Really, is this so hard to piece together..

Still don't think there is corruption in government?

Know what the biggest threat to them lately was, Hippies, psychedelic drugs, because they enable you to see stuff from a different perspective. Why do you think in the States marijuana is rated as dangerous as meth?

But they dealt away with that threat by implementing the War On Drugs

The war on drugs is bullshit. It creates problems rather then solving them.

What more do you need to know?

You people live in a dream world.

The economy isn't real, we are real.

Love and Fear, These 2 things really are the everything comes down to.

They are creating fear threw media propaganda. I know lots of you don't realize how awesome of a weapon fear is, it really is.

Love is our resistance.

Any of you see the new Avatar movie, i recommend it, amazing movie, see it in 3d, best visuals you have ever seen in a movie.

Edited December 24, 2009 by maple_leafs182

[bush_cheney2004]

....Any of you see the new Avatar movie, i recommend it, amazing movie, see it in 3d, best visuals you have ever seen in a movie.

Yea...it was made in the US/UK with banker money to the tune of $240 million. Glad you enjoyed it. Maybe add it to the list like "Matrix" to explain the reality.

As for the Federal Reserve Act, colonists, guns, dollar valuations, illegal drugs, and interest rates....relax...you do not live in the United States. You don't have a constitutional right to bear arms.

Edited December 24, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

great job on the open minded part.

All these recessions and depressions since the 1913 have been scientifically created.

The central bankers control economy's threw inflation and deflation.

Central Banks control world economies by having monopolies over the printing of nations moneys.

They Don't just supply a nation with money, they loan a Nation it's money at interest.

Where do these nations get the money to pay back the interest?

From the Central banks.

Central banks have to perpetually increase the money supply over time to cover those debts. This is why stuff was so much cheaper in the 50's. Inflation.

They control interest rates.

They create bubbles with interest rates.

***We should not have interest rates this low. We can't keep spending money we don't have. Debt is the problem, not the solution.***

The problem we are in now was because American's were buying stuff they couldn't afford with money they didn't have threw loans. Then when people lost jobs and couldn't afford to pay back the loans. Houses were seized, house prices dropped bringing down the economy.

We are creating another bubble by encouraging spending to "stimulate" the economy.

They are inflating the american dollar and many other nations currency with these bailouts. How do you guys not see this.

This will be a horrible depression if we don't do anything about it.

This will be a global depression, the american dollar, the world reserve currency will soon hyper inflate, probably within 2 years, nobody will be able to afford oil in america, and since we allow the world to be ran off oil(the electric car came out 1997) America's economy will collapse, they too are the largest economy in the world, bringing America down will bring many world economies down with it. Total chaos.

“The Colonists would gladly have borne the little tax on tea and other matters had it not been that England took away from the colonies their money which created unemployment and dissatisfaction. The inability of the colonists to get power to issue their own money permanently out of the hands of George III and the international bankers was the PRIME reason for the Revolutionary War." –Benjamin Franklin

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” –Thomas Jefferson

We allowed private banks to control money world wide. They control the world economies, they are creating a global depression. My assumption is they will eventually talk us into having a global currency backed with political support, to ensure nothing like this happens again. it will be for security purposes, and since people will be frightened(fear), they will believe them.

Maybe martial law in america maybe a civil war?

They are trying to pass a form of gun control in the states.

The Gun Trafficking Prevention Act of 2009.

They say it's to keep illegal guns off the street.

The problem isn't guns, it is the fact drugs are illegal. We create the underground market, which leads to gangs and violence.

Hey guess what, the government is screwing us over again.

The right of the people to bare arms in the united states was to protect them from government.

They just previously fought a tyrannical government, they knew the american people may have to do it again.

How many countries have had gun control and later had holocaust or genocides.

http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm

I'm being serious, this stuff should not be taken lightly.

One world government and one world economy is what they are working toward,

And they are getting it. This climate change crap is a scam.

Treaties will be the first step towards a world government.

Don't get me wrong, i'm all for not polluting, but is this really the only solution to stop polluting?

This will create a trillion dollar industry, it's all about money and control

Really, is this so hard to piece together..

Still don't think there is corruption in government?

Know what the biggest threat to them lately was, Hippies, psychedelic drugs, because they enable you to see stuff from a different perspective. Why do you think in the States marijuana is rated as dangerous as meth?

But they dealt away with that threat by implementing the War On Drugs

The war on drugs is bullshit. It creates problems rather then solving them.

What more do you need to know?

You people live in a dream world.

The economy isn't real, we are real.

Love and Fear, These 2 things really are the everything comes down to.

They are creating fear threw media propaganda. I know lots of you don't realize how awesome of a weapon fear is, it really is.

Love is our resistance.

Any of you see the new Avatar movie, i recommend it, amazing movie, see it in 3d, best visuals you have ever seen in a movie.

You follow posts that express hope for humanity with posts full of paranoia. Speaking of paranoia, you realize that half a dozen media conglomorates produce most of the media that is consumed, including Avatar, V for Vendetta and Michael Moore. How much of conspiracy could there really be ?

[maple_leafs182]

You follow posts that express hope for humanity with posts full of paranoia. Speaking of paranoia, you realize that half a dozen media conglomorates produce most of the media that is consumed, including Avatar, V for Vendetta and Michael Moore. How much of conspiracy could there really be ?

You guys aren't proving me wrong, you are just calling me paranoid.

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

"If you want to remain slaves of the bankers and pay for the costs of your own slavery, let them continue to create money and control the nation's credit." - Sir Josiah Stamp

"We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." - Louis Brandeis, Supreme Court Justice

"Under the federal reserve act, panics are scientifically created. The present panic is the first scientifically created one, worked out as we figure a mathematical equation."

- Charles Lindberg

"A world banking system was being set up here... a superstate controlled by international bankers... acting together to enslave the world for their own pleasure. The fed has usurped the government."

- Louis McFadden

"The financial system has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That Board as ministers the finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. The system is Private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people's money" -- Charles A. Lindbergh Sr.

"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and

commerce." — James A. Garfield

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance." — James Madison

"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." — Henry Ford

"To expose a 15 Trillion dollar ripoff of the American people by the stockholders of the 1000 largest corporations over the last 100 years will be a tall order of business." -- Buckminster Fuller

"We have, in this country, one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board. This evil institution has impoverished the people of the United States and has practically bankrupted our government. It has done this through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it." -- Congressman Louis T. McFadden in 1932

Still don't believe me?

Executive Order 11110 was issued by U.S. President John F. Kennedy on June 4, 1963.

This executive order delegates to the Secretary of the Treasury the president's authority to issue silver certificates under the Thomas Amendment of the Agricultural Adjustment Act.

In the five months in office before his assassination Kennedy issued over 3 billion US notes, this could of put the Federal Reserve bank out of business.

After Kennedy, no president issued US notes.

In 1933, Louis McFadden introduced House Resolution No. 158, articles of impeachment for the Secretary of the Treasury, two assistant Secretaries of the Treasury, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve, and the officers and directors of its twelve regional banks.

After 2 failed assassination attempts, he was poisoned in New York 1936.

"They must find it difficult... Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority." -G. Massey

Open Your Eyes.

Don't you guys realize we are slaves to money.

[bush_cheney2004]

You guys aren't proving me wrong, you are just calling me paranoid....

Open Your Eyes.

Don't you guys realize we are slaves to money.

And you are a slave to American history....so what?