HOW LONG ? BEFORE WE HAVE THE FIRST OF THE MANY INNOCENT DEATHS &#33

[shavluk]

Ok this is a poll.

How long after implementation of the new for profit type mentality of Harper's escalated drugwar

that even he admits will be years if not never won

AND HE SAYS ,,,,

"" HE NEEDS TO CHANGE THE CULTURE""

WOW

Get ready and maybe keep a flack jacket in your vehicle ,,,

hunting season just got wide open and the boys even get to match all weapons brought down on all of us !!!!!!

I don't think it will take long before I win the poll.

Headline ,,,,,

7 police gunned down

5 bikers executed as Asian gangs take over

3 children caught in cross fire

Look to the past with alcohol and Capone.

I ""do"" wanna say I told you so!!!

VOTE GREEN !!

AS WE ARE ALL FROM OTHER PARTIES AND ARE TIRED OF POOR LEADERSHIP

AND ARE ALREADY LEADING THE COUNTRY WITH THE RIGHT ISSUES

EVEN WITH OUT A SEAT !!!

THIS NEW POLICY IS SO HORRIBLY WRONG FOR CANADIANS !

FOR SO MANY REASONS !

Any politician who admits to ever trying cannabis should be jailed and see what is in store for so many more. NOW !

Edited October 4, 2007 by shavluk

[ScottSA]

Headline ,,,,,

7 police gunned down

5 bikers executed as Asian gangs take over

3 children caught in cross fire

Look to the past with alcohol and Capone.

I ""do"" wanna say I told you so!!!

VOTE GREEN !!

AS WE ARE ALL FROM OTHER PARTIES AND ARE TIRED OF POOR LEADERSHIP

AND ARE ALREADY LEADING THE COUNTRY WITH THE RIGHT ISSUES

EVEN WITH OUT A SEAT !!!

THIS NEW POLICY IS SO HORRIBLY WRONG FOR CANADIANS !

FOR SO MANY REASONS !

Any politician who admits to ever trying cannabis should be jailed and see what is in store for so many more. NOW !

It doesn't take long for the mentally...errr..."different" to go right off their rockers...

Edited October 5, 2007 by ScottSA

[guyser]

Ok this is a poll.

AND HE SAYS ,,,,

"" HE NEEDS TO CHANGE THE CULTURE""

WOW

Get ready and maybe keep a flack jacket in your vehicle ,,,

hunting season just got wide open and the boys even get to match all weapons brought down on all of us !!!!!!

I don't think it will take long before I win the poll.

Headline ,,,,,

7 police gunned down

5 bikers executed as Asian gangs take over

3 children caught in cross fire

Look to the past with alcohol and Capone.

I ""do"" wanna say I told you so!!!

VOTE GREEN !!

AS WE ARE ALL FROM OTHER PARTIES AND ARE TIRED OF POOR LEADERSHIP

Any politician who admits to ever trying cannabis should be jailed and see what is in store for so many more. NOW !

By any chance could you enroll in an english composition class ? It takes at least three reads to figure the gist of your posts.

Yelling...gaps.....discombobulation everywhere.....

[noahbody]

"Currently there are no minimum prison sentences for producing and trafficking dangerous drugs like methamphetamine and cocaine," Harper said. "These are serious crimes. Those who commit them should do serious time." harper -ctv.ca

Yes this is sure to have all the traffickers upset and voting Green. I don't think the Green Party is wanting to make trafficking of cocaine legal though. And you don't have to worry about automatic weapons. We have the Gun Registry. When they gangs go to register their guns they'll all be confiscated.

[old_bold&cold]

Not sure of just what your end game is in this post, but I see more reason to vote for Harper. But then again I am more inclined to think along the same lines as those people who burnt down the crak house in Ile deux Madeline. If more communities were willing to do this, or at least show proper support for the police in cracking down on this, then maybe there would be less of it. The longer we let the issue of hard core drugs go by the more users there will be. But if users seen by the community are basically ostracized by that community so they will have to leave, then maybe there would be fewer. The police can only make arrests. The community must set it social expectations and stick to them. When this gets done, there will be less drugs.

When children are seen doing drugs the community should be first to act and let the parents know and then also act as a neighbourhood watch type plan to keep all aware of any further instances. I support Harpers view, but I also think that it is the communities that need to get off their apathy and do some local clean ups.

[shavluk]

Maybe there should be one for murder?

If fact the sentenses for growing cannabis are longer than most have served if they murdered someone.

No we just killed people with this one.

This is insane!!

IT IS NOW THE CORNER STONE OF MY CAMPAIGN AND BASED ON THE CALLS IT IS FOR MANY

change the culture ,,hmm my my my yes that will end the un-end able war.

And remove the demand for drugs.

Considering the biggest segment of drug users are actually the elderly in this country on an average 5 drugs each (we can argue legality when i am bored) the way its going is hypocritical.

It will end when humans stop breathing.

Thank you for the stupidity harper because this is the issue that will break the back.

[shavluk]

Not sure of just what your end game is in this post, but I see more reason to vote for Harper. But then again I am more inclined to think along the same lines as those people who burnt down the crak house in Ile deux Madeline. If more communities were willing to do this, or at least show proper support for the police in cracking down on this, then maybe there would be less of it. The longer we let the issue of hard core drugs go by the more users there will be. But if users seen by the community are basically ostracized by that community so they will have to leave, then maybe there would be fewer. The police can only make arrests. The community must set it social expectations and stick to them. When this gets done, there will be less drugs.

When children are seen doing drugs the community should be first to act and let the parents know and then also act as a neighbourhood watch type plan to keep all aware of any further instances. I support Harpers view, but I also think that it is the communities that need to get off their apathy and do some local clean ups.

No this does nothing but make cocaine more profitable and more rewarding.

I could put buckets of it on every street corner and only the same people will touch it.

Would you?

yet you pay a third your tax's trying to stop them and raise the price from 50 cents a gram to 80 dollars by its illegality.

All the violence , shootings , homeless , despair and other problems are actually just symptoms of prohibition itself !

Its not the drugs !

I would legalize all drugs or at least decriminalize them all so that the government could take over the control of the supply and save us billions in insurance and police costs etc,etc .

Then I already know I would have to still buckle down and help deal with Canada's drug problem which is a society based problem

But at least they would be again a health issue.

Not jeopardize the whole community and only enrich criminals and cops and lawyers.

It would work , and it works in Amsterdam RIGHT NOW and it would stop the profit reasons to sell it

The current model just creates more of these people and by letting dealers provide the drugs

we not only allow the giving of billions to criminals , but we also have to spent billions to clean up their criminal enterprise ,,,

you know kinda like the oil industry etc.

No this is always about money , lots of money as always (biggest business in the world actually ) also union security and a lack of human rights.

Ignorance is no excuse for wilful blindness , nor wilful negligence , mark my words.

You were all warned.

Edited October 4, 2007 by shavluk

[Topaz]

Boy, on this topic one could go round in circles! I'm for getting drugs off the street to help young people avoid them and getting hooked on them. Harper wants to put these guys in jail. ok, so now they go to jail, which WE pay for and they will DO drugs in jail! This doesn't stop the drugs from coming into the country. Its the BIG guys will lots of money amd means that do that. In the US, I've read that the CIA had their own drug trade going. There 's lots of money to be made in this trade and ANYONE can be into.

[bush_cheney2004]

...This doesn't stop the drugs from coming into the country. Its the BIG guys will lots of money amd means that do that. In the US, I've read that the CIA had their own drug trade going. There 's lots of money to be made in this trade and ANYONE can be into.

Of course....drugs only come INTO the country...LOL! Canadian policy should be based on what the American CIA is rumoured to be doing/have done. Oy vey...

[Wilber]

If fact the sentenses for growing cannabis are longer than most have served if they murdered someone.

On average, a person needs ten convictions for operating a grow in BC before they spend more than a few nights in jail and then it is just a few months. That's ten houses as good as destroyed and who knows how many neighbourhoods ruined. I'll bet you will have a tough time finding anyone who has spent time in a federal jail (two years or more) for operating a grow.

[Wilber]

Regardless of your position on the legalization of cannabis, I don't see much of a reduction in the organized crime surrounding it. Most of the market for Canadian pot is south of the border. As long as it is illegal in the US there will be a healthy crime element involved. The easier we make it for those people to operate here compared to the US, the more they will choose Canada as a place to do business.

Edited October 5, 2007 by Wilber

[geoffrey]

Maybe there should be one for murder?

There is a minimum sentance for murder.

If fact the sentenses for growing cannabis are longer than most have served if they murdered someone.

Complete bullshit. But I won't even bother asking for a reference or some evidence of that.

And remove the demand for drugs.

Because, if they are legal, cheaper and available, there will be less demand? Do you think Canadians are actually dumb enough to buy that? Most have the logical ability to discern between radical and ridiculous.

Regardless of your position on the legalization of cannabis, I don't see much of a reduction in the organized crime surrounding it. Most of the market for Canadian pot is south of the border. As long as it is illegal in the US there will be a healthy crime element involved. The easier we make it for those people to operate here compared to the US, the more they will choose Canada as a place to do business.

Good points Wilber. Legalisation will not reduce crime. Gangsters and grow op people don't just take a 9-5 the next day. It's a criminal population that is fairly steady.

Not to mention, as I've argued in other threads, legalisation will simply create government subsidized pot. That's the last thing we need, especially next to a neighbour that will never legalise the drug.

[shavluk]

Of course....drugs only come INTO the country...LOL! Canadian policy should be based on what the American CIA is rumoured to be doing/have done. Oy vey...

************BULLSHIT ALARM************

*on what the American CIA is rumoured to be doing/have done. Oy vey...*

How about the congressional hearing in to Iran contra?

Do you not realize or dispute that it is a fact they traded guns for cocaine that they distributed themselves?

Lets try to keep it in reality and not create side tracks that are only figments of your bad memory.

Do any here know that gw bush did not renew the ban on semiautomatic weapons and soon 50 caliber machine guns capable of firing for miles will soon be employed to make sure someone who is going to do 14 years for trafficking will just shoot themselves out of it as murder you can get out sooner.

That's the facts ladies and gentlemen as we have no mandatory minimum for any violent crime in this country but soon we will have one for pot !

Sad time as we become Americans.

[bush_cheney2004]

How about the congressional hearing in to Iran contra?

What about them? Has nothing to do with dopers in Canada.

Do you not realize or dispute that it is a fact they traded guns for cocaine that they distributed themselves?

Nope.....nor do I care. It was frickin' brilliant. Col. Oliver North is a goddamn American hero...Semper Fi!

Lets try to keep it in reality and not create side tracks that are only figments of your bad memory.

Do any here know that gw bush did not renew the ban on semiautomatic weapons and soon 50 caliber machine guns capable of firing for miles will soon be employed to make sure someone who is going to do 14 years for trafficking will just shoot themselves out of it as murder you can get out sooner.

Does anyone else see the irony in these two sentences?

That's the facts ladies and gentlemen as we have no mandatory minimum for any violent crime in this country but soon we will have one for pot !

Sad time as we become Americans.

No...sad time for Dopesters!!!

[Guest coot]

Not to mention, as I've argued in other threads, legalisation will simply create government subsidized pot. That's the last thing we need, especially next to a neighbour that will never legalise the drug.

As you have been refuted on other threads and had no reply when all your hypothetical speculation about what might happen under decriminalization was clearly shown to be out to lunch.

[mikedavid00]

How long after implementation of the new for profit type mentality of Harper's escalated drugwar

that even he admits will be years if not never won

Harper needs to realize he's still in a minority gov't.

'Drugs Wars' are unpopular with Canadian voters becuase it's too 'American'.

I feel this was a very, very bad move on Harpers part. Let's hope this was just a 1 day photo op.

Harper needs ot focus on getting tough on sex offenses and raising the life sentence and remvoing the faint hope claw.

The drug war is just not popular with Canadians and one can't help but to thing of Bush and Regan.

[Guest coot]

No...sad time for Dopesters!!!

Very sad time for conservatives who hoped that Dion's incompetence would signal a Tory majority.

[geoffrey]

The program is focused on cutting cocaine and heroin trafficking while helping those addicted to the substances.

I think this is a real winner. Only the biggest junkies need fear this one. Great plan. Let's do it.

[shavluk]

It gives old ladies ,students ,recent immigrants or any down trodden willing to make 2500 a month sitting in cannabis grow op houses (as the owners are not the ones sitting there watering plants) an automatic 14 years instead of a possible maximum unheard of 7 in the old law.

People will die over this one.

lots of money for advertising friends it sounds like.

And what do they mean by "" TREATMENT"" ? hahhahahhahha

NO this is a gift and soon it will be apparent to even some one like you.

Stupid , stupid timing as I agree they had the liberals on the mat.

I can tell you quite honestly this just proves what I have been telling conservatives for a long time and this is the best thing to have happened in my Green campaign as ,,,and I hate to burst your bubble but contrary to harper and his kids and his Beatle records these conservative got what the Beatles were actually saying and they are not as ashamed of their choices as harper seems to be.

The above view

Paid for by the committee for human sanity by the year 3000 association

[August1991]

I'm going to go with the CBC quote on this issue. Why?

First, Leftists and anti-Harperists will trust a CBC quote.

Second, CBC links last into the future. Taxpayer money and all.

He did not say what offences would fall into that category or how long the sentences would be, but he did not mention marijuana in connection with mandatory sentencing.

...

"It's time to be straight with Canadians so Canadians who use drugs can get straight, because narcotics destroy lives."

CBC

I agree with Harper - or his speechwriter. Narcotics destroy lives.

At several times in my life, I have had to deal with people who use cocaine and heroin. Harper is right. You have to be straight and hard. Anything else doesn't work.

Edited October 5, 2007 by August1991

[geoffrey]

It gives old ladies ,students ,recent immigrants or any down trodden willing to make 2500 a month sitting in cannabis grow op houses (as the owners are not the ones sitting there watering plants) an automatic 14 years instead of a possible maximum unheard of 7 in the old law.

I see no evidence of this in the legislation. Could you show us where an exploited immigrant would get an automatic 14 years?

People will die over this one.

People are already dying. It goes along with drug use.

And what do they mean by "" TREATMENT"" ? hahhahahhahha

You don't think someone with a heroin addiction needs treatment? You don't think someone with a cocaine addiction needs treatment?

Most of the money in this plan goes towards treating addiction. For the people that admit they have one of course, not those that advocate further drug use.

I can tell you quite honestly this just proves what I have been telling conservatives for a long time and this is the best thing to have happened in my Green campaign as ,,,and I hate to burst your bubble but contrary to harper and his kids and his Beatle records these conservative got what the Beatles were actually saying and they are not as ashamed of their choices as harper seems to be.

The Beatles say what??

[capricorn]

'Drugs Wars' are unpopular with Canadian voters becuase it's too 'American'.

I feel this was a very, very bad move on Harpers part. Let's hope this was just a 1 day photo op.

Harper needs ot focus on getting tough on sex offenses and raising the life sentence and remvoing the faint hope claw.

The drug war is just not popular with Canadians and one can't help but to thing of Bush and Regan.

It's the word "war" that is unpopular with Canadians.

They would be more comfortable with "campaign" against drugs. More sanitized.

Yes md, I agree we need tougher sentences not only on sex offences but all crimes.

[Wilber]

In the Vancouver area there are gang members shooting each other up (with guns not needles) on the street, in restaurants and night clubs on a weekly basis. No one in authority wants to openly admit there are gang wars going on (too American) but anyone with half a brain can figure it out on their own.

[old_bold&cold]

The criminal under world will always have its murders and killings. If it was not about drugs it would be about prostitution or something the like. What really kind of makes me nervous is the fact that the rantings of some, while mostly incoherent are really not in any way mainstream. Yes Canadians hate the word war, and would rather other words used. Most of the canadian public has had some time or other used soft drugs, and yes they can see curiosity as being a big cause for this in young people. So they do not want these to end up serving time for that. But this initiative is for going after the dealers and manufacturer's and making sure that they serve long prison sentences for their part in this plague on the lives of the drug addicts. I see this as a winner with the people, and I do not think it will be allowed to be turned against the government who brings this about. Only time will tell on that though.

I was in my early time involved with drugs, and I do not mean so much as doing, but the dirty under belly of organised crime. It is no myth that most of the crime families will not allow their people to become addicted to drugs, as an addict can never be trusted. I saw more then my share of drug deaths and settling of accounts in my day, but I was smart enough by my early twenties to get out and away from those times, and the people. Many of that old gang were either murdered or are serving time. Which is what I figured was going to happen and why I left that behind. Harpers initiative will take the fight to that level and hopefully up from there, and that is where it needs to be done. The crime families will then be short handed for true non drug users to fill those ranks and will then start having drug users do this. That will be what weakens the "Omearta" of that way, and will be the opening to the family heads and all those beneath them. It is a good theory and yes the trouble with theories is that they tend not to do as well in execution. But they will still target the levels that need to be targetted.

Shavluks thinking reminds me of those drug addelled people who used to sell drugs for ever trying to make enough to serve their habit. They never do,and in the end,always end up being used as an example to the next person who does not pay the piper. As for his running gren goes.... well I like comedy as much as the next person. I still though can not tie most of the sentences he wrote in his first post in this thread, to coherrent ideas, or even what I would say are fringe ideas. Sometimes in my life I try to look over the ledge and see what is going on underneath the normal street, and even with that in mind I do not see where Harpers plan should make anyone mad. It will make a lot od mid level dealers more nervous, and also by now outlawing the ingredients that are the precursors to cooking meth, that is all going to hit above the lower level people, and go to the more serious mid to high levels. This to me is better then anything else that has been put forward.

[scribblet]

The program is focused on cutting cocaine and heroin trafficking while helping those addicted to the substances.

I think this is a real winner. Only the biggest junkies need fear this one. Great plan. Let's do it.

I agree, it's great he's taking a stand, and 2 /3 of the declared funding is going to prevention and treatment - what's wrong with that?

Why on earth do people think it's okay to use or sell drugs with no punishment or war on it - in fact, the term 'war on drugs' is more left wing spin which plays to anti -americanism.

Not to mention that the Harper gov't has actually extended the license of the Vancouver safe injection site, so anyone who plays the anti-Americanism card is simply blindly partisan - or downright blind - likely the former.

Edited October 5, 2007 by scriblett