Calling Some One a Racist or Bigot

[ScottSA]

Here's what you said: "No one blamed America," yet now you're saying people want to blame Christianity while earlier you said "some even tried to blame Christianity." Now you're saying he did it because he disagreed with the government, yet accoring to you, repeating again, "no one blamed America." Again according to you: they rightfully blamed Timothy McVeigh. So according to YOUR logic, you should be blaming bin Laden, not Islam.

There's nothing wrong with my comprehension. As I said, your statement contradicts yourself.

Uh, no. I don't even know what you're trying unsuccessfully to say, but listen carefully while I spell it out for you: McVeigh is a single individual who blew up an office building because he had a beef with the government. He did it in his own name.

Muslims blew up the twin towers in the name of Allah. Muslims, at least good Muslims, continue to blow things up in the name of Islam every single day all over the world. If McVeigh had blown up a building in the name of Christianity, and if thousands of Christians blew up buildings and killed people every single day around the world in the name of Christianity, you better believe I'd have a problem with Christianity.

My point in the original post is this: whereas liberals are all too ready to absolve Muslims and blame the actions of the US government for 911, no-one has tried to absolve Timmy by blaming the US government for his actions. I'm addressing the hypocrisy of liberals. I'm sorry you find that so hard to understand.

Edited October 5, 2007 by ScottSA

[Higgly]

Swarthy folks. I love it. I'll put my experience with other races up against yours any day. You focus on negatives and you ignore the tremendous numbers - at least as large as us "white folks" - of perfectly law-abiding members of the "swarthy folk" who outnumber the "bad swarthy folk" you constantly go on about, ScottSA. Try focussing constantly on the misdeeds of "non-swarthy folks". What a pretty picture you would come up with.

And yes, I do refer to Harper as Steve and I do it because I want to communicate the extraordinary extent to which he has aligned himself with the Bush administration. I expect that his most recent attack on marijuana is another thread in that skein. Steve's constant snuggling up to "W" on all issues of importance - the environment, the war on drugs, border issues, is very troubling.

Almost as troubling as his repeated attacks on the judiciary, and even here he looks like "W". Were it not for the judiciary in this country, we would be completely at the mercy of guys like Steve and he is working has hard as his little brain will let him to hobble it. This is the big issue I personally have with Steve and why I will refer to him with as much disdain as the rules will allow.

This country has seen constitutional greats and consitutional midgets. You can guess into which category I put Steve.

[moderateamericain]

Look, I can not exactly say I am innocent of name calling in the past. But I do make it a point to avoid it as much as possible. Why is it that some of you feel it is necessary to make your point by attacking the actual poster. Is it not possible for you to respond to a post with Why your way of thinking is correct with out saying YOUR WRONG.

For example. If someone were to post a thread saying "Deport Muslim extremist out of America" Instead of going in there saying OMG YOUR A RACIST PIECE OF TRASH. How about go in there and argue why it would be worse for us to do that and back up your explanation with thought/logic/or facts/stats. It is received a whole lot better IMO. At this point when i read a thread to sort out the discussion its like I have to mentally discard half the thread because its things like "Well based on your other post and your IDIOTIC this and that." We have intelligent posters here, so use those god given smarts and post your opinions instead of just attacking the other poster.

Basing your opinions off a posters old threads is just weak. Don't go into someone's old post and find something that contradicts themselves and bring it into that new post. It shows a willingness to be vindictive. It all goes back to the simply statement. "Show them why you are right, not why they are wrong."

For the record, Greg, I wish Maple leaf had a near zero tolerance policy of personal insults. It would attract intelligent posters who maybe are more sensitive then some of us thick skinned folks and would generally make for more interesting discussion. I enjoy mapleleafweb.com very much when I have the time and would hope that you all would like to keep the debate lively but polite.

[Guest American Woman]

Uh, no. I don't even know what you're trying unsuccessfully to say, but listen carefully while I spell it out for you: McVeigh is a single individual who blew up an office building because he had a beef with the government. He did it in his own name.

Muslims blew up the twin towers in the name of Allah. Muslims, at least good Muslims, continue to blow things up in the name of Islam every single day all over the world. If McVeigh had blown up a building in the name of Christianity, and if thousands of Christians blew up buildings and killed people every single day around the world in the name of Christianity, you better believe I'd have a problem with Christianity.

My point in the original post is this: whereas liberals are all too ready to absolve Muslims and blame the actions of the US government for 911, no-one has tried to absolve Timmy by blaming the US government for his actions. I'm addressing the hypocrisy of liberals. I'm sorry you find that so hard to understand.

I know exactly what I'm saying. I also know it's not worth the time and/or effort to discuss this with you. Your mind is made up. Some extremists say they are killing in the name of Allah, so it's not their fault, they aren't to blame the way you blame Timothy McVeigh-- Islam is to blame.

You know, as hateful as I find your posts, I actually feel sorry for you. It must be terrible living in such fear. You even get upset over how many babies "they" are having versus how many babies "we" are having. What a way to live life. And the ironic thing is, you are living in the fear that "they" want to instill.

[ScottSA]

I know exactly what I'm saying. I also know it's not worth the time and/or effort to discuss this with you. Your mind is made up. Some extremists say they are killing in the name of Allah, so it's not their fault, they aren't to blame the way you blame Timothy McVeigh-- Islam is to blame.

You know, as hateful as I find your posts, I actually feel sorry for you. It must be terrible living in such fear. You even get upset over how many babies "they" are having versus how many babies "we" are having. What a way to live life. And the ironic thing is, you are living in the fear that "they" want to instill.

Alrighty then. I take your "I feel sorry for you" and raise it one "I laugh in your general direction."

[Guest coot]

I agree that it's strange that something so prominent as a thread title expressing racist ideas would be tolerated, but there would be a problem with calling it racist. Makes you wonder.

[Canadian Blue]

McVeigh, on the other hand, did it because he disagreed with the Federal government, yet people still want to blame Christianity.

I haven't heard many people blame Christianity, are you sure it wasn't the right wing militias he was a part of.

Muslims blew up the twin towers in the name of Allah. Muslims, at least good Muslims, continue to blow things up in the name of Islam every single day all over the world.

Strangely enough many of those attacks are directed at other Muslims, as has been the case in Iraq.

Muslims blew up the twin towers in the name of Allah.

I think that's a pretty simplistic way of viewing terrorism. It's kind of like saying that the IRA planted bombs in the name of Christ. Anytime you mix politics with religion it shouldn't be a surprise that religion is invoked, as has been the case with many religions, including Christianity.

If McVeigh had blown up a building in the name of Christianity, and if thousands of Christians blew up buildings and killed people every single day around the world in the name of Christianity, you better believe I'd have a problem with Christianity.

How many civilians have been killed in Iraq due to the invasion?

My point in the original post is this: whereas liberals are all too ready to absolve Muslims and blame the actions of the US government for 911

We don't blame Muslims, we blame Osama Bin Laden. Strangely enough many of those on the right conveniently forgot him a short while afterwards. You also have to take into consideration the fact that some people are dumb, and then believe that they should firebomb mosques and beat up Muslims.

no-one has tried to absolve Timmy by blaming the US government for his actions.

That's because we caught the culprit and then prosecuted him. We didn't let him leave for Mexico and then invade a country pinning the blame for Oklahoma on them.

[bush_cheney2004]

That's because we caught the culprit and then prosecuted him. We didn't let him leave for Mexico and then invade a country pinning the blame for Oklahoma on them.

What's this "we" stuff? Unless you mean Aghanistan instead of Iraq, in which case "we" did invade and pinned the blame on the Taliban.

This entire thread reveals the collective Canadian neurosis concerning so called "hate speech", and the mad scrambling to appear oh so politically correct, regardless of forum decorum. Since so much homage is paid to American pop culture on this forum anyway, might I suggest a revisit to Norman Lear's "All In The Family".....see, "we" figured this stuff out over 30 years ago.

[betsy]

Here's what you said: "No one blamed America," yet now you're saying people want to blame Christianity while earlier you said "some even tried to blame Christianity." Now you're saying he did it because he disagreed with the government, yet accoring to you, repeating again, "no one blamed America." Again according to you: they rightfully blamed Timothy McVeigh. So according to YOUR logic, you should be blaming bin Laden, not Islam.

There's nothing wrong with my comprehension. As I said, your statement contradicts yourself.

But it's not the same with Bin Laden's! Bin Laden is doing it because he is following the instructions of Islam.

What about the virgins awaiting the martyrs if they blow themselves up and kill a lot of people? They even specified exactly how many virgins they'll get....where did that number come from??? Surely not from Bin Laden.

Why should America be blamed for his terrorist act just because he disagreed with the Federal government???

Did McVeigh follow any federal instructions saying that this is what we should do if they disagree with any federal government policies? Go ballistic and kill people?

Your logic says: McVeigh disagrees with the US federal government. He blew up the building and killed hundreds of people. Therefore, the US federal government should be held accountable for his action.

EH? Is that how you think we should view that situation?

Edited October 6, 2007 by betsy

[betsy]

You know, as hateful as I find your posts, I actually feel sorry for you. It must be terrible living in such fear. You even get upset over how many babies "they" are having versus how many babies "we" are having. What a way to live life. And the ironic thing is, you are living in the fear that "they" want to instill.

Now imo, this is an example of a personal attack, even though there was no mention of "racist or bigot."

See how it veered off the particular discussion and promptly switched into a PERSONAL ANALYSIS ON SCOTTSA.

[Guest American Woman]

Now imo, this is an example of a personal attack, even though there was no mention of "racist or bigot."

See how it veered off the particular discussion and promptly switched into a PERSONAL ANALYSIS ON SCOTTSA.

I'm referring to his posts. I do find his posts hateful, and if I'm not allowed to say that while he's allowed to post hate filled posts, then I have no desire to be on this board. I have no desire to be associated with a board that would allow that while denying me the right to call a spade a spade. And again, I'm referring to his posts. I didn't say I find HIM hate filled. Funny (as in ironic) you would call me on what I said while saying nothing about the "hate" that he's posted.

Edited October 6, 2007 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

But it's not the same with Bin Laden's! Bin Laden is doing it because he is following the instructions of Islam.

What about the virgins awaiting the martyrs if they blow themselves up and kill a lot of people? They even specified exactly how many virgins they'll get....where did that number come from??? Surely not from Bin Laden.

Why should America be blamed for his terrorist act just because he disagreed with the Federal government???

Did McVeigh follow any federal instructions saying that this is what we should do if they disagree with any federal government policies? Go ballistic and kill people?

Your logic says: McVeigh disagrees with the US federal government. He blew up the building and killed hundreds of people. Therefore, the US federal government should be held accountable for his action.

EH? Is that how you think we should view that situation?

I didn't say America should be blamed for McVeigh's actions. What I said is to blame America would be akin to blaming Islam for bin Laden's actions.

So what if bin Laden says he's doing it because he's following instructions of Islam. Christians have commited crimes saying they were following the word of God, but that doesn't mean that the blame is put on God; that God/Christianity is held responsible.

If I say I'm commiting a crime in your name, does that make you or me guilty?

[betsy]

I didn't say America should be blamed for McVeigh's actions. What I said is to blame America would be akin to blaming Islam for bin Laden's actions.

Uh-uh. Read the explanation again why the two are not comparable.

Besides, it's not just Bin Laden who's saying he's following the instructions of Islam. What about those Imams who preach hate in their pulpits? We're talking more than just a few handfuls of religious authority figures - not just anybody - who give instructions from their place of worship!

And how many were involved with McVeigh in this act?

So what if bin Laden says he's doing it because he's following instructions of Islam. Christians have commited crimes saying they were following the word of God, but that doesn't mean that the blame is put on God; that God/Christianity is held responsible.

Following the word of God, like what? Cite a specific example please?

But yes Christianity and God are being blamed for a lot of things....(from the Inquisition to brainwashing to residential schools etc..,)

Obviuously you haven't read all the negative posts about God and Christianity just in this forum alone.

If I say I'm commiting a crime in your name, does that make you or me guilty?

If I told you to do it, yes that would make me guilty. Why do you think "masterminds" get tougher penalties?

If I wrote a book instructing you to do it, and you followed the instructions I gave in my book....I bet you could use that in your defense. You could put the blame squarely on my lap.

Edited October 6, 2007 by betsy

[betsy]

I'm referring to his posts. I do find his posts hateful, and if I'm not allowed to say that while he's allowed to post hate filled posts, then I have no desire to be on this board. I have no desire to be associated with a board that would allow that while denying me the right to call a spade a spade. And again, I'm referring to his posts. I didn't say I find HIM hate filled. Funny (as in ironic) you would call me on what I said while saying nothing about the "hate" that he's posted.

Yes you mentioned that you find his posts hateful (which seems to suggest that you're now talking about everything he posted)...which veered the discussion at hand in a different direction. You're no longer talking about this particular subject alone. At least that's the message I'm getting from reading it.

But then, it's the follow-up statements that all the more stressed that your opinion had now become personal, in my view.

Just as a referral, here is what you said:

You know, as hateful as I find your posts, I actually feel sorry for you. It must be terrible living in such fear. You even get upset over how many babies "they" are having versus how many babies "we" are having. What a way to live life. And the ironic thing is, you are living in the fear that "they" want to instill.

I must've missed it, but where did he mention (in this thread) anything about babies???

Were you referring to his posts in this thread....or posts from other threads as well???

Edited October 6, 2007 by betsy

[Guest American Woman]

I don't owe you any explanations, Betsy; especially in light of your one-sided criticism. If you have a problem with my post, report it.

[betsy]

I don't owe you any explanations, Betsy; especially in light of your one-sided criticism. If you have a problem with my post, report it.

Looks like I got your goat, american person.

Gee...talking to you is like a lipless person talking to the deaf. Having heard nothing, you criticize him for having no lips.

Edited October 6, 2007 by betsy

[Guest American Woman]

Uh-uh. Read the explanation again why the two are not comparable.

Besides, it's not just Bin Laden who's saying he's following the instructions of Islam. What about those Imams who preach hate in their pulpits? We're talking more than just a few handfuls of religious authority figures - not just anybody - who give instructions from their place of worship!

And it's not just one person who murders saying they are following the instructions of God. What about those fundamentalist Christians who preach hate from their pulpits? What about those who kill abortion doctors in the name of religion? Do we blame them, or do we blame God?

Seems to me if you are blaming Islam, then bin Laden et al are innocent; it's not their fault. It's Islam's fault. Guess they should be deemed "psychologically insane" and be found "innocent of their crimes by reasons of insanity."

Obviuously you haven't read all the negative posts about God and Christianity just in this forum alone.

Obviously I haven't read ALL the negative posts ... in this forum alone, but I've read some and I've disagreed with some of those negative posts in my responses. But there's a huge difference between saying negative things about God and Christianity and BLAMING God and Christianity when crimes are commited in the name of God/Christianity.

If I told you to do it, yes that would make me guilty. Why do you think "masterminds" get tougher penalties?

If I wrote a book instructing you to do it, and you followed the instructions I gave in my book....I bet you could use that in your defense. You could put the blame squarely on my lap.

Really? I'm ONE person, and I followed the instructions in your book, a book read by many more people, and I'm the only one who "followed the instuctions," yet, according to you, I could blame you.

I stress the "I'm ONE person" because in the same post you ask this:

And how many were involved with McVeigh in this act? Why does it matter how many were involved since you said I could blame you-- me, one person-- could blame you if I committed a crime in your name.

So according to your line of thought, when people commit crimes because God told them to, and it doesn't matter if it's one person or thousands, God/Christianity most definitely should be blamed since "God" wrote the Bible as surely as "Allah" wrote the Koran.

For the record, I blame BIN LADEN, not Islam. But then, I tend to hold people responsible for their actions.

Edited October 6, 2007 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

Looks like I got your goat, american person.

Gee...talking to you is like a lipless person talking to the deaf. Having heard nothing, you criticize him for having no lips.

No, you didn't get my goat. I find your accusations and requests for an explanation a nusiance and a waste of my time. So seriously, if you have a problem with my posts, report them.

[Guest coot]

Gee...talking to you is like a lipless person talking to the deaf.

Why are you getting personal when criticizing posters for getting personal? Or can you really get personal on an anonymous board anyway?

[buffycat]

There is a distinct double standard on this board.

Some members get away with anything, name calling, calls for violence etc. Nothing happens - nothing changes. Says alot IMO.

[ScottSA]

Looks like I got your goat, american person.

Gee...talking to you is like a lipless person talking to the deaf. Having heard nothing, you criticize him for having no lips.

It reminds me of a couple years ago when I asked my 16 year old daughter to vacuum the house whiole I was at work. I came home to a note: "I don't know how to turn the vacuum on. Get one that works!"

[betsy]

Why are you getting personal when criticizing posters for getting personal? Or can you really get personal on an anonymous board anyway?

The statement that I made conveyed....EXASPERATION!

And considering how rudely American Woman responded to my legit observation, which was uncalled for since she posted her opinion on this forum....an opinion that I openly challenged. At least give me credit for responding with humor.

[LonJowett]

It reminds me of a couple years ago when I asked my 16 year old daughter to vacuum the house whiole I was at work. I came home to a note: "I don't know how to turn the vacuum on. Get one that works!"

Shut up, you fucking racist.

[betsy]

And it's not just one person who murders saying they are following the instructions of God. What about those fundamentalist Christians who preach hate from their pulpits? What about those who kill abortion doctors in the name of religion? Do we blame them, or do we blame God?

Where? Cite these fundamentalist Christians who are allegedly preaching hate from their pulpits.

And how many abortion doctors got killed?

You are talking about ISOLATED INCIDENTS that had been perpetrated by people with obvious psychologivcal problems!

These are not comparable with those who are killing all over the world in the name of Islam! Thousands of Muslims riot on the streets......in various countries....from different continents.

Are you saying all of these people have psychological problems and/or misunderstood the teachings of their own religion?

Seems to me if you are blaming Islam, then bin Laden et al are innocent; it's not their fault. It's Islam's fault. Guess they should be deemed "psychologically insane" and be found "innocent of their crimes by reasons of insanity."

Well obviously, for these thousands of people to display psychotic responses all at the same time....something must be triggering it! And if they are all claiming it is because of Allah...and the 72 virgins that they were promised if they martyr themselves.....

and if they are all unanimously pointing their finger towards their Allah as the giver of instructions, of course who should we blame but the religion of this Allah who's churning out terrorists more than Toyota churns out cars!

Really? I'm ONE person, and I followed the instructions in your book, a book read by many more people, and I'm the only one who "followed the instuctions," yet, according to you, I could blame you.

With a good lawyer, yes.

Why do you think they're blaming the web for these young terrorists who get attracted and recruited? Why do you think they're blaming those how-to websites that gives step-by-step instructions how to make bombs?

You may be the only one who decided to follow the instructions I gave you to the letter....while the others were smart enough to know better. A good lawyer could come up with a good defense that would suggest I put the idea into your head and that you were unable to resist it. If you happen to have a sordid childhood with abusive parents, were picked on and bullied as a child, poverty-stricken etc.., so much the better....your lawyer could end up painting you as the victim too!

And how many were involved with McVeigh in this act? Why does it matter how many were involved

Of course it matters. Very much in fact. It shows that there's no comparison between the two!

McVeigh was just an isolated incident. Whereas we're seeing this MASS HYSTERIA in the name of Allah for how many years now???

So according to your line of thought, when people commit crimes because God told them to, and it doesn't matter if it's one person or thousands, God/Christianity most definitely should be blamed since "God" wrote the Bible as surely as "Allah" wrote the Koran.

For the record, I blame BIN LADEN, not Islam. But then, I tend to hold people responsible for their actions.

No. You got that line of thought all screwed up! The numbers of people matters!

It is impossible to assume that thousands would be crazy or be mentally troubled at the same time.

[betsy]

I agree that it's strange that something so prominent as a thread title expressing racist ideas would be tolerated, but there would be a problem with calling it racist. Makes you wonder.

Naw.....it's not racist! It's what you call, INTRIGUING! I bet you rushed in there to see what Scott was on about with a title like that!

Obviously the title grabbed you guys. It surely got me.

Gee, lighten up will you. Don't tell me you have not seen any published books with intriguing titles such as that!