Islam, the sneaky buggers

[trex]

i assume because it is in vogue these days, thanks in part to media brainwashing of the brain-washable. there are no muslims to defend themselves here, it seems. consider it a snapshot of the current mentality across the country.

[kuzadd]

i assume because it is in vogue these days, thanks in part to media brainwashing of the brain-washable. there are no muslims to defend themselves here, it seems. consider it a snapshot of the current mentality across the country.

Indeed there are no Muslims here, to defend themselves or enlighten us on there feeling, dreams, hopes, aspirations, etc., Just like the human beings they are.

It is a snapshot and a dam frightful one at that, as it is a loud/bold display of inhumanity, on the part of people who actually believe themselves superior.

[sharkman]

interesting, if we were to replace the word muslim with the word "jew" in this thread, this forum would be completely shut down.

i am not pointing this out to say, jews get special protection but evidently that today, muslims do not. this is hate literature.

Typical. I see you haven't been around here very long. Not long enough, at least, to see the many threads started that were indeed bigotry towards Jews and Christians. If you like, hang around, because I'm sure the usual suspects will start another one soon in direct response to this thread which is simply critical of Islam.

[trex]

Typical. I see you haven't been around here very long. Not long enough, at least, to see the many threads started that were indeed bigotry towards Jews and Christians. If you like, hang around, because I'm sure the usual suspects will start another one soon in direct response to this thread which is simply critical of Islam.

i see... so bigotry of all kinds is acceptable around here. i guess that makes it fair

[Moxie]

Typical. I see you haven't been around here very long. Not long enough, at least, to see the many threads started that were indeed bigotry towards Jews and Christians. If you like, hang around, because I'm sure the usual suspects will start another one soon in direct response to this thread which is simply critical of Islam.

I concur, but that's acceptable to the left leaning cry babies. Wailing racist, racist, then bigot bigot when they are hoarse from screaming those words they wimper-- fear why the fear of Islamists and lately their new THANG if you support the military is "Join the military and fight in Afghanistan" if you support the troops. More PC horse poo from the left, they can't win a debate with their words so they sling insults at anyone who doesn't agree with their version of a anti-Christian country. They are pro-Islam because Islamist and the left have so much in common, no seperation of state and it's people and Muslims no seperation of Islam and the state (Sharia Law). Yawn they tire me so, racist racist. Jesus Islam is a Religion of many races but does the left KNOW this? They use these slurs and insults to win debates, but it's so 90s, I could careless if the left left wingnuts think I'm a racists. I think they are idiots, but that's personal and insulting but they sling mud and hide when it's hurled back at them.

[AngusThermopyle]

“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against Islam, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”

Not at all, I'm absolutely non-religious. Why would I say or agree to any such thing?

“What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purity of our blood, the freedom and independence of our country, so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe.”

Once again, no. I don't believe in a "creator" of the universe. As for purity of race, I've previously stated that I'm a mongrel, I'm quite content being one too. I have also stated previously that I do have a problem with Radical Islam though, and that means I have a problem with folks like the Taliban or Hamas. I don't think that makes me some sort of closet racial purity supremacist, it just means I recognize an open threat. I think if anyone tries to deny the reality of the threat such organizations and their ideologies pose they are merely being willfully blind to the facts.

I mentioned in another thread that I found what two young Palestinian men had to say reference the Palestinian situation was eminently sane and sensible. They are interviewed in the Documentary "Suicide Killers", its fascinating. Instead of talking about what is happening the film makers wanted to know why it is happening, on a personal level. So they conducted interviews in Palestine and Israel.

They talked to captive bombers, they talked to active Hamas in the field. they talked to famillies of bombers, also Palestinians on the street. When you hear in their own words why they do what they do you will be amazed, and I would hope, profoundly disturbed. Still, the two young men (they're brothers) put it best when they observed that no good could come of they way in which their religion was being perverted.

You should see it, if you honestly want to know why these people do what they do.

So, did that answer your query?

[Michael Hardner]

I don't think anybody needs to 'cry' racist racist. Nor do I think we need to ban Scott for plainly stating his racist views. ( BTW, I realize that Islam is a religion of many cultures, but I don't feel like typing Xenophobe. Scott also values his race, and a handful of other European offshoots so I'll just use that term until someone suggests a better one. ) Just say racist. Then discuss.

Those of you on the left who are ready to pass out over the existence of a ScottSA, please keep in mind that there are a great many people out there who are intelligent and hold such opinions. If you can't debate them, then you should probably go away and rethink your principles before coming back to debate.

Those of you who are racists need to decide if you have a 'reason' for your views or if you just 'feel' that way. If you do have a reason, be prepared to discuss. If you're open minded, then you will change your mind when your reasons are defeated.

Those of you who, like Scott, just 'like to keep Canada Christian...' because you just feel that way, then accept that your views are unreasonable, and can't be defended.

The rest of you, figure it out.

[bush_cheney2004]

Dude , you do not even know what I mean by mainland USA??? I am not talking about US interests in another country. I am not talking about embassies in other countries. I am talking about the so called GOOD OL US OF A. Ahem.. if you need help on the map, it is in North America, in between Mexico (to the south) and Canada (to the north). Nice try though. Figure it out for yourself.

If I am wrong Bush_Cheney ... then show me the light. If not, you can exit stage right.

See ALASKA....but that won't help with your disdain for Amerika. That's OK...we have managed to get along without your talking or analysis of dead 'merkins.

[Argus]

Argus,

Why don't you just fly the white flag and admit you're a bigot ?

I dunno. It seems to me that when all you've got in your bag of tricks is calling names you've basically surrendered the argument yourself.

No counter arguments, no well thought-out logic, no facts, nothing coherent, just a smarmy self-righteous hurling of insults. Do you really think that impresses anyone here?

Islam spans many cultures.

You say that as if you're trying to pretend you knew anything about Islam. But I get the feeling you simply believe that makes you sound worldly, when in fact, sorry, it makes you sound laughably ignorant. Islam is not merely a guide to ones personal behaviour. It is a guide for government and society, and observed in that manner throughout the Muslim world for centuries. Are you really going to try and pretend this has had no affect on the culture and value system of Muslims? Are you really going to make everyone laugh at you? Again? I don't know - maybe you're simply used to it.

There's no trick to being honestly exasperated by a succession of nonsensical arguments, which is where I'm at with all of you.

I think when a mind is as completely and utterly closed as yours is any argument which dares to counter your own precious ideological beliefs is going to draw anger and ridicule - no thought though - that is quite apparent.

I'm giving you a chance to hang yourself... I mean explain yourself... After all, you [non-]bigots are the ones with rational theories to explain why you hate people who look different, so you're the ones who have the obligation to explain it.

I think I've already stated enough that an honest person interested in a discussion would be able to respond to. So far you have responded to opinions and facts by sticking out your tongue out and calling people names. It's quite clear that debate and discussion are the last things you want here. You simply want to silence people who don't accept your views.

[Argus]

debateable?

I don't see religious fanatics as sane.

Hm, I guess you can tell alot about someone by the company they keep?

Well, personally I think I can tell a person is an idiot when he accuses me of being a religious fanatic - not having been in a church in about twenty five years other than funerals and weddings.

[jbg]

Pointing out the obvious, you have issues with people who don't share your attributes. So you hate Muslims, Mexicans, Homosexuals, etc. I don't really see how hoping that all the Muslims are exterminated from the west is any different from the notion some people have that if all the Jews were wiped out we would be better off as well. Hatred is hatred, no matter which group its directed at. I'm sure if the Muslims weren't around ScottSA would be spewing his hatred against another minority.

While I certainly don't hold all the views you attribute to whoever that poster is, maybe some people want immigration to be conducted and allowed in such a way as to ensure that the immigrants become Canadians (in the case of my country, Americans), and not destroy the Western culture, itself a unique "culture" entitled to preservation.

[Argus]

First ScottSA hates Muslims, now he hates Mexicans, and we also know for sure that he hates homosexuals. So why can't ScottSA just come out and admit to being a bigot as many people have figured out with the exception of a few on the far right.

Ahh, again we see the thoughtful and philosophical bent of the extreme Left, so eager to exchange words of wisdom and debate, answering every suggestion, statement and point of fact by - jumping up and down and screaming insults.

[Argus]

Gitmo is about as close as you will get to a concentration camp.

And how many women and children are there? How many have been killed? Clearly too many to count, right? How many per month? Ten thousand? I mean, it's about as close to a concentration camp as you can get, right? There must be mass graves and all kinds of slaughter.

Most of the occupants are Muslim.

Most of the occupants in the Don jail are Christians. Does that make it a concentration camp?

Jews were put in concentration camps for being Jews. The Muslims in Gitmo are there for murdering people or committing or planning terrorist acts. When the Americans realize they don't have enough solid evidence on someone - they release them.

How many Jews were released from the concentration camps? In round numbers.

[Argus]

S,

The new testament preaches peace, but there's plenty of war in the old testament.

An idiotic comparison. Our society does not bend itself to the will of the old testament. We live in a pluralistic and secular society, and have for some time. Most of the Muslim world lives in very insular cultures which are very much ruled according to the writings in the Koran. Their entire societies revolve around the Koran and its teachings.

Argus has correctly determined that 'culture' is factor. This means that Muslims under the influence of Canadian culture are not the same as those who grow up in, say, Pakistan.

Again. Ludicrous. Since Islam itself is the major influence on Muslim cultures and they are bringing that religion with them. That is why even Muslims who grow up here, in the US and in the UK have been arrested for attempting to commit terrorist acts.

I

f the argument is: "Islam is fundamentally different from other religions, in that its adherents are prone to violence and unredeemable.", as yours seems to be, then a handful of westernized Muslims prove you wrong.

It's always more fun to debate the straw man you have set up, isn't it? So much easier than taking on the actual statements of people smarter than you.

[Argus]

Pointing out the obvious, you have issues with people who don't share your attributes.

I would say that was patently obvious about you.

Hatred is hatred, no matter which group its directed at. I'm sure if the Muslims weren't around ScottSA would be spewing his hatred against another minority.

And who would you be spewing your hatred against if there weren't intelligent people here for you to jealous over?

[Argus]

interesting, if we were to replace the word muslim with the word "jew" in this thread, this forum would be completely shut down.

i am not pointing this out to say, jews get special protection but evidently that today, muslims do not. this is hate literature.

Pick out a statement which qualifies as "hate literature" and explain why - if you can.

What the sniveling idiots of the Left can't seem to comprehend is that you can dislike a group based on that group's actions, words and behaviour, and that this is entirely different from disliking people because they have a different skin colour or accent. You can also dislike and disapprove of a group without instantly letting that affect your behaviour or judgement towards an individual.

I'm willing to bet you don't even know what hate literature is.

[Argus]

i assume because it is in vogue these days, thanks in part to media brainwashing of the brain-washable. there are no muslims to defend themselves here, it seems. consider it a snapshot of the current mentality across the country.

Oh that's okay. They have the paternalistic Left to protect them.

They're not very smart, and not very good at arguments, but hey, they can jump up and down and gnash their teeth and pull their hair and shout insults with the best of them.

[Argus]

I don't think anybody needs to 'cry' racist racist.

And yet, that and self-righteousness seem to be the sum total of your contributions here.

[Michael Hardner]

Argus,

An idiotic comparison. Our society does not bend itself to the will of the old testament. We live in a pluralistic and secular society, and have for some time. Most of the Muslim world lives in very insular cultures which are very much ruled according to the writings in the Koran. Their entire societies revolve around the Koran and its teachings.

This is precisely the circular argument we've seen time and time again.

So is it the holy books, or the culture ? If it's the culture, then bringing Muslims to Canada is a good thing, right ?

Again. Ludicrous. Since Islam itself is the major influence on Muslim cultures and they are bringing that religion with them. That is why even Muslims who grow up here, in the US and in the UK have been arrested for attempting to commit terrorist acts.

So why do they not lose their culture, as every other culture who comes to the 'west' does ? Ah... time to switch back to "it's the holy books".

It's always more fun to debate the straw man you have set up, isn't it? So much easier than taking on the actual statements of people smarter than you.

I don't know if the people I'm debating with are smarter than me or not. Why are you changing the subject ?

[Michael Hardner]

Argus,

And yet, that and self-righteousness seem to be the sum total of your contributions here.

Excuse me ?

Didn't I just eschew self-righteousness by imploring people to debate racists on the merits of their arguments ?

I'm not shocked by racism. I'd like to debate why racist theories are incorrect, and there's nothing self-righteous about that.

Edited October 3, 2007 by Michael Hardner

[trex]

Pick out a statement which qualifies as "hate literature" and explain why - if you can.

What the sniveling idiots of the Left can't seem to comprehend is that you can dislike a group based on that group's actions, words and behaviour, and that this is entirely different from disliking people because they have a different skin colour or accent. You can also dislike and disapprove of a group without instantly letting that affect your behaviour or judgement towards an individual.

I'm willing to bet you don't even know what hate literature is.

i am not a sniveling idiot. please refrain from using those kind of remarks.

there are many muslims who are just as appalled by the harsh fundamentalist types, such as taliban, as we are. that does not mean all muslims should be feared or hated. most of them are just ordinary people who want to live in peace, without any political agenda to kill us.

we need to be able to identify who is the problem, and who is not, otherwise we becoming just as totalitarian as the taliban. i'm not saying, we should embrace the taliban, but we need to use our intelligence, so not to become the very thing we are against.

[Michael Hardner]

Argus,

What the sniveling idiots of the Left can't seem to comprehend is that you can dislike a group based on that group's actions, words and behaviour, and that this is entirely different from disliking people because they have a different skin colour or accent.

That's delusional. If you look at a group of people on the other side of the world and associate them with people who have nothing to do with their actions, but share their skin colour - how is that better ?

An Indian community centre in Hamilton Ontario was vandalized after 9/11. I guess that was rational because the attackers mistakenly thought they were of the same 'group' as the terrorists ?

[trex]

Oh that's okay. They have the paternalistic Left to protect them.

They're not very smart, and not very good at arguments, but hey, they can jump up and down and gnash their teeth and pull their hair and shout insults with the best of them.

but your arguments include a steady level of personal insults. on this page alone-

"An idiotic comparison"

"Ludicrous"

"straw man ... people smarter than you"

"sniveling idiots"

"paternalistic"

i dont see a similar level of insults coming back at you by anyone though. so i think you need to work on that

[kuzadd]

Well, personally I think I can tell a person is an idiot when he accuses me of being a religious fanatic - not having been in a church in about twenty five years other than funerals and weddings.

well, obviously you missed the "company you keep" quip, wrt to scottsa and your defence of his comments.

I guess I too, can tell when a person "is an idiot", as you so nicely put it.

go back and read the sequence of posts, for help.

[kuzadd]

Argus,

Excuse me ?

Didn't I just eschew self-righteousness by imploring people to debate racists on the merits of their arguments ?

I'm not shocked by racism. I'd like to debate why racist theories are incorrect, and there's nothing self-righteous about that.

racist theories are incorrect, first off, since there is no such thing as "race" but one, the human race, we have had that discussion here, it is solidly backed up.

Therefore, it is simply ignorant and irrational to persecute/criticize based on race.

If you look at a group of people on the other side of the world and associate them with people who have nothing to do with their actions, but share their skin colour -

Secondly, as I believe you said, to judge an entire distinctive group of people, in this case, followers of Islam, as "terrorist" and 'thugs' is fomenting hatred and nothing more, it is promoting discrimination, against people for their faith.

Or as you noted people who share similar skin tones, being attacked for their skin colour, this demonstrates irrationality, on the part of people who do this type of stuff and

also irrationality on the part of people who think this type of stuff is ok.

As I have said, before there are approx. 1 billion, followers of the Islamic faith in this world and by far the vast majority of them, are just going about there lives, living, loving, dying, marrying, raising kids, working etc., The vast populace should not be judged by the actions of the few criminals, any more then I wish to see myself judged by the words of scottsa or argus.

Condemn the actions of the criminal, not the people at large who have ZERO to do with the actions of the few.

Edited October 3, 2007 by kuzadd