"Death to Canada!"

[weaponeer]

Why did they do this though? What goals and aspirations were they trying to achieve? You just described how they went about being an empire, you did not tell me what an empire actually is and why they exist. Again, what is an empire?

Here is something i found:

An empire exists when one

nation, tribe or society exercises

long-term domination over one or

more external nations, tribes or

societies. Through that domination

the imperial power, or empire, is

able to determine many of the key

political, social, economic and

cultural outcomes in the dominated

society or societies. And that is the

critical point---the ability of the

empire to determine what happens,

the outcomes in the societies under

its control---is what distinguishes an

empire from other forms of political

organization. Those who hold

power at the centre of an empire

typically derive economic benefits,

access to important resources,

control of militarily strategic

territory, and other forms of power

as a consequence of imperial

arrangements.

http://www.jameslaxer.com/empirechapter.pdf

Given that definition which i think is pretty straight forward it seems as though america really is an empire of sorts.. don't you agree?

If its not right than why did you thank 'god' for it?

How do you view the role between corporations and governments in places like Myanmar, Iraq, Iran, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Latin America, I.... etc... Saudi Arabia you say is a rich nation but why do the people live in poverty? What is the role that corporations play in exploiting the 'colonies'; what is the role that governments play in protecting the corporations from angry natives and villagers; what is the role that modern economic institutions play in making sure the 'right people' see most of the money and benefits?

That is exactly what all empires tell themselves. There is always a sense of salvation amongst imperialists - originating with the Abrahamic tradition. That still is true today.

If it makes you happier to fabricate your own sunny and warm realities about the way the world works - so that it doesn't bring you down - than that is your choice. It does not make it true though. Its also worth noting that life is ususally always better the closer one is to the center of the empire - only until the empire begins to crumble. Then the violence abroad and the repression at home begin to get nastier and nastier.

Andrew

Yes, I do thank God the British colonized the world. They created the modern western culture, the country I live in. It was not perfect, but I choose to look at the positive. Slavery was a terrible thing and has been abolished. There are no people alive today that were slaves of the British Empire in N America, just people who live off the self pity of the legacy. If you go back far enough in time, my ancestors were enslaved, killed, brutalized, should I sit around and feel sorry for myself, demand compensation??? My ancestors were actually the victims of an Indian raid, should I demand compensation. The Indian tribes of N America were tripping over themselves to sell each other out to the French & British, slaughtering homesteaders etc.... They are not innocent victims, they fought back and lost, the same as the Saxons & Normans defeated the English. We are here AndrewL, we are not leaving, get used to it!!!

Humans colonize, that's what we do, since we first left Africa a million or so years ago. The Cro-Magnons invaded the Neanderthal territory, Homo sapiens invaded territories etc etc...... Welcome to human history!!!

The USA is not an empire, they only buy & sell to the world. There are plenty of nations out there that benefit, including Canada. The USA has the power to take if they wanted too, they do not, and they buy. There are those out there that have nothing to offer the free market world, either because of lack of resources or lack of initiative. They are jealous of the power & wealth of the US and the countries the USA trades with. They are jealous of the wealth of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Qatar etc... Even Iraq was a very wealth country courtesy of the USA. Saddam chose to spend his cash on palaces & tanks instead of for his people, not the USA's fault. Are the Americans supposed to tell the world how to spend the money they get for selling to the USA? Do you tell someone you buy a car from how to spend the $$ you gave them??

As for Saudi, sounds like you have never been there. There are very few poor people there. The only people I saw there, in the many times I have been, that could be considered poor is perhaps the Bedouins, but I think it is not poverty, just their lifestyle. They are I will agree very hard on third party nationals, the Pakistani & oriental people they bring over to do their domestic and lower end work. Saudis do not shovel shit, flip burgers or clean toilets, you’d' know that if you were ever there!!

Corporations, WE ARE THE CORPORATIONS, US!!! We buy their products, we work for them. Corporations employ millions, billions of people throughout the world. Government cannot ignore the jobs or tax revenue they bring in. People who bitch about corporations most likely don't have a job, are not living the life of the rest of us and want to whollow in self pity, and cry about society instead of getting off their asses and getting to work.

I choose to look at the positive of my culture and society. I know it is not all perfect, but I have seen may other societies and we have it very good. Whether you are a winner of failure in our society depends on YOU!! Your choices, your ambition, your goals. I have noticed that only our society’s failures, the lame & lazy seem to want to bitch & whine. Myself, I have a new car, a new house, hot wife and my kids are doing great. My bills are paid, and life is good, because of choices I made.

[weaponeer]

I ask all of you ????

What regiment did you serve your country in?

If no one answers again I will assume none of you did.

And any thing else you say will be meaningless after your comments.

I seriously doubt you were in 2 RCHA, or any RCHA or combat arms unit. If you were you would know that we were not primarily peacekeepers, you would know what the role of 2 RCHA was. You would know the role and value of armoured units, you would know what they bring to the fight, and you would have more pride in your service than to call soldiers little boys. Perhaps you were in as a lazy assed milingerer cry baby, but not a soldier, please!!!

I am not in a Regt, I am in the Airforce, 19.5 years. I have been stationed in Europe for 3 years, Somalia, Yugo twice, Afghanistan twice, and countless exercises and operations.

You don't know the first thing about the military of Afghanistan. You should get in line at the welfare office with Andrewl & tbud......

[ScottSA]

What regiment were you in Sgt Rock?

I wasn't in the Cnd forces, although I'm doing some work with them now (not combat) and I may be working in combat arms again shortly, in the field, this time for my country. Where I was is none of your business, although suffice it to say I was "versing in death." I just love that expression!

[AndrewL]

Yes, I do thank God the British colonized the world. They created the modern western culture, the country I live in. It was not perfect, but I choose to look at the positive. Slavery was a terrible thing and has been abolished. There are no people alive today that were slaves of the British Empire in N America, just people who live off the self pity of the legacy. If you go back far enough in time, my ancestors were enslaved, killed, brutalized, should I sit around and feel sorry for myself, demand compensation??? My ancestors were actually the victims of an Indian raid, should I demand compensation. The Indian tribes of N America were tripping over themselves to sell each other out to the French & British, slaughtering homesteaders etc.... They are not innocent victims, they fought back and lost, the same as the Saxons & Normans defeated the English. We are here AndrewL, we are not leaving, get used to it!!!

Can't you just acknowledge the reality that our ancestors who came to this land were genocidal and succeeded in destroying a totally viable and wonderful culture? Why do they have to be celebrated - its so phony... And to thank god for this... well thats just perverse. Nobody says you have to feel guilty - i certainly don't. I just prefer to be honest.

Humans colonize, that's what we do, since we first left Africa a million or so years ago. The Cro-Magnons invaded the Neanderthal territory, Homo sapiens invaded territories etc etc...... Welcome to human history!!!

Tribal peoples are not colonists, only civilized people are colonists, in the truest sense of the word.

The USA is not an empire, they only buy & sell to the world. There are plenty of nations out there that benefit, including Canada. The USA has the power to take if they wanted too, they do not, and they buy. There are those out there that have nothing to offer the free market world, either because of lack of resources or lack of initiative. They are jealous of the power & wealth of the US and the countries the USA trades with. They are jealous of the wealth of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Qatar etc... Even Iraq was a very wealth country courtesy of the USA. Saddam chose to spend his cash on palaces & tanks instead of for his people, not the USA's fault. Are the Americans supposed to tell the world how to spend the money they get for selling to the USA? Do you tell someone you buy a car from how to spend the $$ you gave them??

Well i still don't know what definition of empire you are using so im not sure exactly how to read your paragraph.

But you seem to be confused about something - which is that the US pays for what they need. On the surface that might appear to be true but lets take a deeper look. As you may be aware the US imports 70% of its energy. The US is approximately 4% of the worlds population and uses approximately 25% of the worlds resources. Now who are they paying for these resources and energy? It seems to me they are paying client states that keep the restless natives mostly obedient with brutal military force. A military force trained and equipped by America and her closest most like minded friends. And who benefits? Do the people who live off these resources benefit? Or does the client government benefit? Yes. Do the industry CEO's and shareholders benefit? Yes. The people remain in perpetual poverty while the 'west' cuts down their forests, converts their land to factory farms, pollutes their water, and generally rapes them. This is all done for the benefit of the people who live in the core of the empire. Meanwhile we are fed constant incessant lies that it is actually good for these people that we exploit them and their land. If only they would just obey and get with the program....

As for Saudi, sounds like you have never been there. There are very few poor people there. The only people I saw there, in the many times I have been, that could be considered poor is perhaps the Bedouins, but I think it is not poverty, just their lifestyle. They are I will agree very hard on third party nationals, the Pakistani & oriental people they bring over to do their domestic and lower end work. Saudis do not shovel shit, flip burgers or clean toilets, you’d' know that if you were ever there!!

Let me guess, you hung out with other rich people at nice hotels?

The fact is their GDP has collapsed dramatically since the 70's. This is what happens when you have hundreds of spoiled princes spending billions of dollars on palaces, fleets of cars, private hunting reserves on tribal lands in africa, and other forms of extreme decadence. The worlds largest exporter of oil can't even compete in GDP with most resource depleted countries belonging to the american empire - a very revealing fact IMO. The royal family is just another dictatorship armed by America to protect the constant and abundant flow of oil to the market. Saudi Arabia's GDP by all measurements is even lower than Iran, and Iran has been under US sanctions for decades....

Corporations, WE ARE THE CORPORATIONS, US!!! We buy their products, we work for them. Corporations employ millions, billions of people throughout the world. Government cannot ignore the jobs or tax revenue they bring in. People who bitch about corporations most likely don't have a job, are not living the life of the rest of us and want to whollow in self pity, and cry about society instead of getting off their asses and getting to work.

I work for a very large corporation and have worked constantly since i was 14 all the way through university.

I think corporations right now exist in a world of total unaccountability. Look at Burma (Myanmar) - a major source of their human rights abuses is Total/Chevron - but they are exempt from the sanctions that have been in place against that brutal regime for years. But it is Total/Chevron that pay the military to make sure no people get in the way when they exploit and pollute and displace the people who live in on the land. Meanwhile this junta is slaughtering monks in the streets - but still nobody mentions sanctions against the corporations or would consider holding them accountable. That has to change.

I think its terribly sad that you identify yourself with corporations. To me a corporation is just another powerful entity that does whatever it can to turn a profit. A corporation to me is just an unfortunate reality that helps me buy the food they keep locked up. I don't celebrate them as you seem to. I have no allegiance or loyalty to any corporation. Im not one of those people who treats themselves as a free billboard for their bosses, walking around pathetically displaying the company logo..... i prefer to identify myself with... well i just want to experience what it truly means to be human. Here is something i read today from Chris Hedges that i really liked and what i prefer to identify with:

"There is a meaning to existence. It is found, as Fyodor Dostoevsky, Joseph Conrad and Vasily Grossman knew in simple, blind acts of human kindness, especially towards the outcast and the stranger. It is discovered when we confront and acknowledge the inevitable chains and limitations of human nature but do not completely succumb to them. These small acts of compassion, never free from the taint of self-interest, do not make the world a quantifiably better place. We will not be rewarded for them. We will not save ourselves from evil, suffering and death. But these acts mean that we have, if only for a moment, felt what it means to be fully human."

http://www.truthdig.com/arts_culture/item/...ges_black_mass/

I choose to look at the positive of my culture and society. I know it is not all perfect, but I have seen may other societies and we have it very good. Whether you are a winner of failure in our society depends on YOU!! Your choices, your ambition, your goals. I have noticed that only our society’s failures, the lame & lazy seem to want to bitch & whine. Myself, I have a new car, a new house, hot wife and my kids are doing great. My bills are paid, and life is good, because of choices I made.

There is nothing wrong with discovering and promoting the positives of any culture or society. I certainly think that in the west we do in fact have a pretty rich heritage of free inquiry and discussion - among other things. The very act of posting here is to promote the free exchange of information that exists and is valued and protected in this culture. I'm likewise in the same situation as you. I'm paid fairly well, have a house and can contribute along with the mother of my child to the well being of his life. You seem to purposely ignore and gloss over the real problems of this culture though. You seem to want to pretend they don't exist. But they do, and i feel compelled to understand and reveal them. I dont even care so much if anybody agrees or even listens.

Andrew

Edited September 29, 2007 by AndrewL

[trex]

Andrew

What he calls "payment" amounts to a bowl of rice a day, for a poor girl in India who works as a seamstress 10-12 hours 6 days a week, to make your pants for sale at wally mart. Thats how you get to buy the pants for $19.99, because if they payed her what someone in North America would make, they would cost $69.99.

Is that truely a form of payment?

No it is not, that is why the corporations have outsourced their production to third world countries. Those countries, are needed to make the cheapest goods posible. Most important, they are needed to remain POOR by our comparative standards, so that the grotesque profit margin continues.

[shavluk]

I seriously doubt you were in 2 RCHA, or any RCHA or combat arms unit. If you were you would know that we were not primarily peacekeepers, you would know what the role of 2 RCHA was. You would know the role and value of armoured units, you would know what they bring to the fight, and you would have more pride in your service than to call soldiers little boys. Perhaps you were in as a lazy assed milingerer cry baby, but not a soldier, please!!!

I am not in a Regt, I am in the Airforce, 19.5 years. I have been stationed in Europe for 3 years, Somalia, Yugo twice, Afghanistan twice, and countless exercises and operations.

You don't know the first thing about the military of Afghanistan. You should get in line at the welfare office with Andrewl & tbud......

Actually I was , and my father and uncle were as well.

In fact my uncle was the Regimental Sargent Major of Gagetown NB ,Chief Warrant Officer wild Bill Shavluk.

A lot got me drunk when i took a surveyor course there.

I was going to be one of the first with the P 109's

They both had thought it very important to do time in the military having lived through the Ukrainian Holocaust , that had cost my family every thing and everyone besides them and my grandfather who was a hero of the ukrainian freedom fighters.

You sir as air force ,,,and I will keep my jokes out of it ,Mr Safe (except for that and the fact that to die in the air-force is usually from falling out of bed) and give you the respect you deserve. hahhaha

The other fellow who commented made no sense and has no right to belittle my full military service to Canada.

I did not even mention my 7 years of Naval reserves before I joined as a military policemen.

Again thanks for taking the time.

I am sure what I say will sink in with some of you and the rest ,well I am sorry but you really don't matter.

[AndrewL]

The other fellow who commented made no sense and has no right to belittle my full military service to Canada.

Actually he does. Or have you already forgotten what your purpose was in the armed forces?

Andrew

[kuzadd]

"He who is not with me is against me..."

--Jesus Christ, in Matthew 12:30 and Luke 11:23 of the New Testament of Christianity.

This false dilemma goes back probably long before Jesus Christ im sure..... buts it origin is neither modern nor does it originate with Goering. The most classic reference to it is from the bible. Good to see old Georgie is stuck in 1st century moral concepts....

Andrew

This false dilemma useage, may go way back, but it is , what it is.

All it is, is a manipulative means to get people 'on side' or following, without question, wether it is alleged to have been said by Jesus, is debateable , but whoever wrote it surely used it for the very same reason as Goering used it and Bush used it.

Manipulation of the masses, just do, don't think.

Sadly, most of the masses comply, then ostracize those that don't.

[jbg]

"Death to Canada, death to foreigners, death to Karzai!" shouted one protester.

That's a translation error. It's how they say "Good Morning" or "hello". They say "Death to ________" (fill in the blank).

[jbg]

pissing off villagers??

you can follow anyone off a cliff if you want to.

you think its all a big joke, right. funny. college boy. go back to your books, beer and tities

leave real politics to the adults

And you take what 9th Century savages say seriously?

[jbg]

Did you notice he has 1940 posts and you have 12?

And that provoked him into making another 46 between Sep 26 2007, 10:11 PM and Sep 29 2007, 11:32 PM, or 16 per day.

Great work.

[Melanie_]

I am sure what I say will sink in with some of you and the rest ,well I am sorry but you really don't matter.

Any Canadian soldier who has truly lived up to the name wouldn't tell a Canadian citizen they "don't matter". You may have served your time, but you seem to have missed the value.

[trex]

And that provoked him into making another 46 between Sep 26 2007, 10:11 PM and Sep 29 2007, 11:32 PM, or 16 per day.

Great work.

that does not provoke me... is there some kind of syndrome around here called "post-count envy"?

i have free time for a few more days to discuss politics, then i need to break for a while. normalcy will again return... and y'all can get back to your comfortable stimulating debate amongst such good friends...

[jbg]

that does not provoke me... is there some kind of syndrome around here called "post-count envy"?

i have free time for a few more days to discuss politics, then i need to break for a while. normalcy will again return... and y'all can get back to your comfortable stimulating debate amongst such good friends...

Just an observation. College break?

[trex]

Just an observation. College break?

actually no, i run my own business and am between contracts

[ScottSA]

actually no, i run my own business and am between contracts

They used to call it "between jobs" back in the day. The day before that they called it "unemployed."

[trex]

They used to call it "between jobs" back in the day. The day before that they called it "unemployed."

nope...

[shavluk]

Any Canadian soldier who has truly lived up to the name wouldn't tell a Canadian citizen they "don't matter". You may have served your time, but you seem to have missed the value.

What value ? Giving your life for stupid video game playing generals who don't question the strategy of politicians before they throw 71 lives and some times their families to the cremation pit?

I know better and you and your venom are i hope a comfort to you when your grandchildren become the ones i am working hard to help protect.

Again what regiment or squadron did you fly out of granny?

Other wise myself like all reading will just assume you are part of the crowd with that dreaded postcountenvy disease some of the children here have.

Guess what granny ? you don't matter either.

I am only concerned with the fair minded types.

My concern is to the voters of my riding and after that me and mine.

The ignorant masses are of no concern of mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj72e5q61Fs...ted&search=

All problems in society seem to stem from esteem issues ,, more often than not the lack of this esteem.

belief is the most powerful force in human existence - shavluk

[trex]

heheh, Mr. Shav... a brood of vipers... a cesspool. someone needs to wipe its ass

[Melanie_]

What value ? Giving your life for stupid video game playing generals who don't question the strategy of politicians before they throw 71 lives and some times their families to the cremation pit?

I know better and you and your venom are i hope a comfort to you when your grandchildren become the ones i am working hard to help protect.

Again what regiment or squadron did you fly out of granny?

Other wise myself like all reading will just assume you are part of the crowd with that dreaded postcountenvy disease some of the children here have.

Guess what granny ? you don't matter either.

I am only concerned with the fair minded types.

My concern is to the voters of my riding and after that me and mine.

The ignorant masses are of no concern of mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj72e5q61Fs...ted&search=

All problems in society seem to stem from esteem issues ,, more often than not the lack of this esteem.

belief is the most powerful force in human existence - shavluk

Well, you certainly are an angry person - perhaps one of those "esteem issues" you talked about. I don't know why you are coming here, if we all don't matter, but hey, whatever rocks your boat. But I'm done with you - I won't be increasing my "post count" by responding to you again. I hope you get some emotional help soon, and I do mean that sincerely.

[shavluk]

I am saddened you didn't even stand up and tell me you were a fair minded person.

As far as my anger,,,,,,Yes , I have heard that before,,,

hmm how do I put it into terms that you may relate with ?

I mean this with all due respect but try to imagine ,,yes ,, one of your grandchildren or even children targeted and framed and hurt or raped for something they in fact didn't even do.

I mean really hurt?

And Yes , I am serious ,,,some thing he was in fact framed for by the forces of our own government , the police and admitted to by them in their actions and court testimony?

How do you think this child then would be afterward? when it doesn't matter and one should just get over it ?

And then how will he do when he goes about trying to create a life again and then he sees the same mentality still at work and meets others still dealing with the same things and See's it being done openly to other children over what should be parental guided health choice issues.

I do not beat the weak and downtrodden like some others.

I believe we are all equals or should be in the year 2007 and that all are worth more than some others obviously believe.

Again thanks for your comments

and don't go away mad,,,,,,

[1967100]

Mr. Harper is like Bush junior. He is nothing more than a puppet of Bush used to expand Canada's role in the widely illegal war on the middle east.

[jbg]

Mr. Harper is like Bush junior. He is nothing more than a puppet of Bush used to expand Canada's role in the widely illegal war on the middle east.

Was Harper the PM in 2001? Just asking since I know nothing about Canada.

[old_bold&cold]

Shavluk

You are just an angry petty person and it does not matter whether you served in the military or not, that does not make you an less of an angry person. I myself have not served other then reserves, but all through my family have served and many died during the wwII and Korea. some still have made the military their career. I do not know why, but it seems that nearly all of my family that served were in fighting roles, and because of my families German descent they were in need by the allies for translating, but also were going to be killed if aver captured. So you can, try to impress others with your I served and know everything attitude. Your type would never had survived the battle field back then as your attitude would have had your own side frag you just on principal. You and your mouth would have only served to do harm to the troops who would be doing most of the fighting to save your ass. But times have changed and so has the military. Now they would just dimiss you. You do not seem to know very much about the military and the way battlefronts work, so I will assume you were a stock boy or something the like. By your attitude here I would have to ask if you were a concious abjector. But that only happened with drafted people.

Anyway, you seem not to be able to understand that it is Nato that runs the show in Afghanistan, and Canada is there only due to its NATO committments. Canada does not have a glorious heritage of peace keeping, but rather on of the issues that once a shot was fired they hunkered down in their armoured vehicles and ran from that area, until the fighting was over. It was more UN observers then real peace keepers. See the 800,000 Rwandans that were butchered while our so called peacekeepers watched. That was a day I was ashamed to be Canadian. I am sure that you must have rejoiced, as you certainly think highly of peacekeepers. The Canadian forces are a combat trained enity and will always be so. It was only under the Liberals that the forces were turned into jittery babysitters. But even toward the end of the 90's, our armed forces could not even do peace keeping properly. At least now they can agaiin take pride in things. Maybe they will then be able to show you that your angry man syndrome is only because you feel useless or something. I hope you get professional help for yourself. It is available to all veterns and they really have great facilities for such things.

[bush_cheney2004]

Mr. Harper is like Bush junior. He is nothing more than a puppet of Bush used to expand Canada's role in the widely illegal war on the middle east.

Actually, President Bush is Bush Jr., being the son of President George Bush Sr.

But if you insist, then PM Chretien is Clinton Jr. and also Bush Jr., and PM Martin is Bush Jr. as well. That would make PM Mulroney Reagan Jr. and so on. Why aren't the American presidents ever PM Jr.?