I'm multicultural...

[Melanie_]

Honestly, I imagine if given a vote , most Canadians would say keep Xul, throw mikeD out.

I agree! Where do I go to vote?

[mikedavid00]

I agree! Where do I go to vote?

Case in point.

[M.Dancer]

You can go to one of the many English speaking parts of the world including Jamaica, Africa and you will find the cuture is not even close to Canada's.

Thanks for so effortlessly proving me correct. You go to many parts of the world, like Jamaica for example and you find a distinct English Language...which in turn shapes its culture and is part of its culture.

[M.Dancer]

. I was a kid. I remmber Terry Fox, I remember the Montreal Canadians, I remember Wayne Gretzky and playing hocky on the street. I remember going ot the sugar bush.

Fuynny you should mention Terry Fox.....

The annual Terry Fox runs start this sunday. There will be around 900 different Terry Fox events attracting over 2 million participants.

You could say (because I will) the Terry Fox Run is a part of Canadian Culture.

[Leafless]

Fuynny you should mention Terry Fox.....

The annual Terry Fox runs start this sunday. There will be around 900 different Terry Fox events attracting over 2 million participants.

You could say (because I will) the Terry Fox Run is a part of Canadian Culture.

You are totally wrong and as usual no cite.

No it is not part of Canadian culture.

It is part of a charitable CASH drive for 'walking for cancer research.

The Terry Fox National School Run Day:

While Canadian schools used to hold their event on a date of their choice, in 2005, to commemorate the 25th anniversary of Terry Fox's Marathon of Hope, Canadian schools held their events on the same day - The Terry Fox National School Run Day. The result was one of the largest events in Canadian history: 9,000 schools with over 3 million students took part. The feedback from schools and participants was consistently "It was amazing to know that on the same day, millions of other students and educators were running / walking for cancer research". In response to the overwhelming success of the event and numerous requests made by educators and volunteers, The Terry Fox National School Run Day became an annual event. This year's Terry Fox National School Run Day is Friday, September 28, 2007.

http://www.terryfoxrun.org/english/nationa...default.asp?s=1

[Posit]

Well wrong you are!

It is the "culture of money" - not Canadian culture, but a culture none-the-less.

[mikedavid00]

You could say (because I will) the Terry Fox Run is a part of Canadian Culture.

No it's not. It's another one of our countless 'give me money and fund my paycheck' cherities in Canada.

I wonder how much money actually reaches the research lab.

[Leafless]

Well wrong you are!

It is the "culture of money" - not Canadian culture, but a culture none-the-less.

He did not identify that way.

What he said was: "You could say (because I will) the Terry Fox Run is a part of Canadian Culture."

That is Canadian culture is NOT money culture.

BTW- If you want to get technical about other types of cultures, the culture of charity would be more appropriate in this case.

[M.Dancer]

I wonder how much money actually reaches the research lab.

.87 cents on the dollar. Do you feel like an outsider, knowing so little about Canada? So little about Canadian culture?

[JB Globe]

So you see, me. I'm multicultural. I'm the real thing. I'm SOO multicultural that I don't even think about. I don't even notice.

This quote reminded me of my favourite Stephen Colbert monologues where he talked about race for the first time. He begins by saying he's colour-blind saying: ""Now, I don't see race... People tell me I'm white, and I believe them, because I own a lot of Jimmy Buffet albums."

In an effort to prove the fact that he's color-blind, he then goes on to list all of his token-non-white friends, and shows photos which supposidly prove this:

http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/image...kfriendalan.jpg

So, after thinking of the Colbert bit, imagine my surprise when this followed . . .

We had this dinner party yesterday and about a dozen people showed up. Here's the different races and religions that were there:

6 Christians - Canadian caucasians (1 guy from Calgary, 1 girl from Ottawa, 1 from Montreal)

2 Christians - Goan Indian (husban was indian born with accent)

1 Christian - PALISTINIAN (no seriosuly she's palistian christian).

2 Hindu (1 doesn't eat meat.. also from Ottawa, another from Montreal)

2 Mulsim girls (both drink)

So, you're colourblind, which is why you can identify people based on their ethnicity . . . Really?

I mean, to my eye, it seems like a little bit of wishful thinking here, you clearly aren't colourblind. No one is and from the sounds of your post you aren't either (ie- you chose to mention your friend has an accent when it's completely irrelevant to the discussion, why would a culture-blind person do that?) It would seem you're doing what Colbert did in that bit (although his was a conscious parody) and what a lot of white-liberals use to "prove their not racially biased" in that you're listing your "ethnic friends" as though you'll get a badge that proves you're culture-blind.

There's no danger in acknowledging cultural differences between people, in fact it's a lot healthier than trying to pretend you don't see those differences at all - after all, a person who refuses to acknowledge differences is someone who can get themselves into a lot of trouble - someone who doesn't "see culture" also can't see where they could offend someone of said culture with an ignorant comment or action. (ie - "oh sorry, I didn't see your hijab, I'm culture-blind you see, that's why I put that pork-sausage on your plate, not because I wanted to be a prick).

I mean, we've seen in France where this attitude got a nation when it was applied on a policy-level - The French government for decades was culture-blind, refusing to keep statistics that included ethnic categories, as a result, there was no official data that showed the situation most French of Arab and African descent were in, and without the data, there could be no policy to improve the situation, especially when a policy targeting people based on ethnicity would be against government policy. And while the government refused to acknowledge culture, believing ignoring it would lead to better integration - the reverse was true - racism throughout society was allowed to fester and grow without and checks from the government and this pushed Arab and African French into ghettos and out of the mainstream economy.

But you know what we all have in common? We're working people. We are all integrated. We don't sit and harp on cultural issues and ethnicities.

Of course it's important to acknowledge that a person's culture or religion is only one aspect that makes them who they are, but it is an important part. Just like it's important to someone who's female that she's perceived as a woman in society - that has affected the course her life has taken, it affects how she perceives herself and how others perceive her. But again, being a woman is not the only thing that makes up a woman's personality or life experience. And unfortunately, we still live in a society where some differences lead to people being treated better or worse than others. You can't really fix those indifferences if you don't acknowledge that they exist.

Not one person brought up their countries. Not one person brought up cultural issues. Everyone was color blind as saw each other as normal people. That's the difference. We don't go out of our way to bring up differences and harp on them.

Define "normal people" - I'm interested to hear this, because I was unaware there was such a thing.

But as for no one discussing cultural or religious issues - is this par for the course at all your dinner gatherings? Can you really assume that the reason these topics weren't discussed was because no one was interested in them? Some people just aren't comfortable discussing these issues around people they don't know, because they don't want to risk getting into arguments. What would happen if someone did bring up such an issue? Would you shut them down? Would you tell them their opinion doesn't matter, because they should be culture-blind, like yourself?

And if in fact none of your friends ever discuss any cultural or religious issues they've been dealing with - is that really healthy? Like it or not your cultural and religious upbringing helps form who you are as a person. Some people place a greater or lesser extent on it than others, and that's fine - that's their choice. But you appear to be saying (either you're assuming this, or your friends have told you themselves) that all of your friends have abandoned any cultural or religious identity or heritage and are therefor "culture-blind" And there's a big difference between someone only being somewhat involved in their cultural heritege, and someone who denies it, and/or resents that part of themselves. That's where you get into the area of self-hatred.

You can never really blame people who do this, because this is just their reaction to pressures they face from society - such as what you're suggesting which is that the only way in your books for immigrants or their children to be accepted by mainstream Canadian society (which itself is a loaded term) is if they remove from themselves many of the things that make them who they are, and replace them with . . . Well, with what exactly is up for debate: after all there was never ONE culture in Canada - we've always been a multicultural nation since confederation.

Exactly what is this "Canadian culture" that everyone's supposed to adopt anyway?

We are multicultural. The real thing. If you want to see real multicultural success stories, then come to a party of mine and you can see it first hand.

Actually, your dinner parties seem to be the antithesis of multiculturalism: after all, if you seek to ignore and destroy cultural differences, how can your parties be about many (as in - multi) cultures? Wouldn't a more apt term for your parties be: MONOCULTURAL? Isn't that the end result of your views on culture in Canada? That we erase all cultural difference and end up "being the same?"

I also suspect that your desire for monoculturalism is opportunistic - for example, if North America was completely monocultural than we wouldn't have blues, jazz, rock, soul or many other musical forms that came about because different musical traditions from different cultures mashed together to form new ones. But of course, you probably like some of those genres, so you yourself enjoy the benefits of a multicultural society. You probably don't want to give up Italian or Chinese food either - but that's what would happen if we had been a monocultural society from the get-go. Also, I can't imagine how much more ill-informed the general public would be about the rest of the world if it weren't for the few friends most people have who are themselves of their families are from different parts of the world. After-all, people who discuss other places and situations in the world with friends who are from those areas are much, much more knowledgeable than folks who are surrounded by people who are of the exact same background as them.

Frankly, I prefer parties where people aren't in self-denial about their own culture and how they perceive others, but rather they choose to learn about each other and figure out ways to check whatever biases they were raised with, and learn about cultures they don't happen to know a lot about, in an effort to become a more knowledgeable and better person and citizen of a multicultural nation.

Culture matters, just like religion and sex do, but they're not the be all and end all of a person.

I can honestly say that living in a truly multicultural environment is one of the biggest positive influences in my life.

[JB Globe]

I know. It's such a shame eh?

It wasn't just her, it as so many others and especially the guest on today show. This half Japanaese girl who almost has no ties to Japan at all sits and tries to cook sushi to prove to herself that she's Japanese.

She's so dissapointed that she doens't fully belong to a minority.

She's so dissapointed.

She thinks being an ethnicity is what accredits her as a person in life.

Just so sad. Honestly I feel sorry for her.

Question - How would you know she's disappointed she doesn't fully belong to a minority? Aren't you just making a gross assumption about an individual without knowing much about them?

Question - Who endowed you with the authority to decide for others what their cultural identity is? Why do you get to decide how people view themselves? And where are you getting this all-encompassing objective knowledge that enables you to do so?

Is it even really any of your business if someone likes to cook sushi or not?

[White Doors]

Who cooks Sushi?

[guyser]

Who cooks Sushi?

Everyone.

[mikedavid00]

.87 cents on the dollar. Do you feel like an outsider, knowing so little about Canada? So little about Canadian culture?

No I said 'actually reaches the lab'. That's something that they don't reveal. None of us really know.

[mikedavid00]

I mean, we've seen in France where this attitude got a nation when it was applied on a policy-level - The French government for decades was culture-blind, refusing to keep statistics that included ethnic categories, as a result, there was no official data that showed the situation most French of Arab and African descent were in, and without the data, there could be no policy to improve the situation, especially when a policy targeting people based on ethnicity would be against government policy. And while the government refused to acknowledge culture, believing ignoring it would lead to better integration - the reverse was true - racism throughout society was allowed to fester and grow without and checks from the government and this pushed Arab and African French into ghettos and out of the mainstream economy.

That story would fool the common lamen who read it, but it doesn't fool someone who has the facts.

The French were over generous with their family sponsorship program and has historically colonized Islamic nations. This over centuries leads to mass immigration although much less than ours right now.

The reason why the french dislike these people is becuase the majority simply don't work jobs and are tax burdens on the common people. They also created ghetto's and crimes. The French people pushed them aside. Just like Canada, France have politicians that need to pander to votign blocs in order to get elected. We are talking, a whole portion of the country is Islamic and in the future it will become a majority.

Furthermore, I would MUCH rather have Algerians, Morocans, etc here in Canada rather than the garbage that we currently let in. These people integrate like a dream compared to our top countries of origin in Canada.

Culture matters, just like religion and sex do, but they're not the be all and end all of a person.

Yes. We should focus on our own culture. Not the culture of other countries. And I disagree with you in that some people feel that culture *is* the be all and end all of themselves which is really sad.

I can honestly say that living in a truly multicultural environment is one of the biggest positive influences in my life.

There is no such thing as true multiculturalism. That breaks the laws of what 'culture' is.

Canada has a bunch of losers who try to pretend that they are not living in Canada and don't belong to us.

that is no multiculutralism, that is being a 'Pathetic, Lost, Loser'.

Below is real culture. But it takes living in the parent country for it to be real. Multiculturalism is a falshood by definition:

http://www.iadb.org/news/images/medium/Bra...esanato%203.jpg

[mikedavid00]

Who cooks Sushi?

I've cooked it.

I have all the ingredients in my cuboards.. wine vinegar, sticky rice, seaweed, all that stuff.

But see.. i don't go around pretending that I'm Japanese because i make sushi sometimes.

[mikedavid00]

Question - How would you know she's disappointed she doesn't fully belong to a minority? Aren't you just making a gross assumption about an individual without knowing much about them?

Did you listen to the CBC series on this? No?

Ahbh yes. So maybe I can turn that question around to you.

You are the typical, self hating Canadian.

[Melanie_]

I've never been to Brazil, but it sounds like a truly multicultural country to me! Open to many cultures, and accepting of the new cultural milieu created.

Immigration to Brazil

Immigration has been a very important demographic factor in the composition, structure and history of human population in Brazil, with all its attending factors and consequences, such as culture, economy, education, racial issues, etc. Brazil has received the third largest number of immigrants in the Western Hemisphere, after the United States and Argentina.

During the 1970's Brazil received a large number of Lebanese immigrants escaping the civil war, as well as a considerable number of Palestinians and Syrians. During the 1990s Brazil received small numbers of immigrants from the former republics of Yugoslavia, from Afghanistan and West Africa (mostly Angolans and Nigerians). Recent immigration is mainly constituted by Chinese and Koreans and, in a smaller degree, by Argentines and other Latin American immigrants.

[bush_cheney2004]

I've never been to Brazil, but it sounds like a truly multicultural country to me! Open to many cultures, and accepting of the new cultural milieu created.

It is, but that doesn't do much good for the culture of the permanent underclass.

http://aad.english.ucsb.edu/docs/muello1.html

[capricorn]

I was doing research on faith based schools when I came across a speech given by Dr. Godwin O. Eni, President, Vancouver Multicultural Society, in 2004. He addresses culture and multiculturalism.

"Diversity and multiculturalism are two different concepts that we tend to use interchangeably. Diversity is a means to an end. It is more or less an instrument that leads to the end or Multiculturalism.ii We have to be different or diverse in order to be multicultural.

Research has shown that our culture or individual identities are reflected in ten broad characteristics. These are: a sense of self or self-identity, communication and language, dress and appearance, food and feeding habits, time and time consciousness, relationships, values and norms, beliefs and attitudes, work habits, and mental process and learning.iii Five of the ten characteristics – self-identity, communication and language, relationships, values and norms, and beliefs and attitudes - may be considered critical for intercultural understanding and harmony in a multicultural environment. In other words, an organization can come closer to becoming truly multicultural if its policies and operations address issues associated with the members’ sense of self, how they talk including accent and language, the meaning they attach to relationships, what they value or believe and how they do things.

snip...

How can we achieve multiculturalism in schools, communities and the society at large?

People have different opinions about how multiculturalism should work in Canada. Dr Max Wexler of Simon Fraser University refers to them as the ten characters or expectations and beliefs that make up opinions on what should happen in a multicultural society.iv

1. Assimilationists want individuals to hide or bury their identities and assimilate into a different ‘Canadian culture’. Assimilationists believe that it is best to join the dominant culture which they consider the winning team.

2. Elitists feel superior to other cultures and see themselves as members of the upper class who rightfully, are the legitimate holders of power. They believe in maintaining the status quo or keeping things the way they have always been. Other cultures are considered burdensome. Multiculturalism may tolerate those other cultures and deal with them without disrupting the status quo.

3. Meritocratists believe that individuals should work hard enough and compete so that they can rise to the rank of the elitists thereby contributing to the richness of Canada.

4. Diversity Advocates, on the other hand, want groups to work hard in order to rise to the rank of the elitists. Diversity advocates believe that this is good for business.

5. Victims believe the society owes them some form of compensation or apology because they are suffering from the generational impact of previous oppressions. Victims dislike assimilationists and they do battle with elitists. As examples they point to slavery, the internment of the Japanese during the Second World War, restriction of Asian immigration, the exploitation of East Indian labour, and more recently the labelling of terrorism for people from the Middle Eastern Countries.

6. Seclusionists are members of a distinct community who strongly believe they should protect themselves from racial, cultural and ethnic group contamination that would diminish their character and the quality of their own group’s experience. They often use the words “those people” to characterize people from other cultures which is a form of overt racism.

7. Cultural Centrists seek to improve the welfare and competitive strength of their own group by accentuating their history, bolstering their identity and creating communal infrastructure as bridges to other cultures. They are proud of their cultural heritage and seek to represent it in public forums and interpersonal relationships.

8. Integrationists want to break down barriers between and among different cultures in order to bring them together as a single culture. They hope to create a new, better and superior Canadian culture for everybody from the hybrid of cultures.

9. Transcendentalists generally focus on the similarity and commonality of all human beings including the human spirit. They believe in our ability to rise above or transcend the blindness of culture, race and ethnicity and form a colour-blind, race-blind and ethnic-blind society. Idealism and possibly spirituality underlie their belief.

10. Multiculturalists on the other hand celebrate the relationships between and among different or diverse cultures and they want to sustain the unique traits of each culture while they create a civil forum for dialogue and discussion about issues they consider important for reducing hate and intolerance within the population.

The ten different opinions about how Canadians from different cultures should live together illustrate the challenges we face as a society in nurturing multiculturalism. This is particularly true in our school system as different cultures compete for understanding and accommodation."

http://www.urbancultures.ca/whatsnew/docum...he%20Mosaic.pdf

I'm still trying to figure out which category I fit into.

[Visionseeker]

You could say (because I will) the Terry Fox Run is a part of Canadian Culture.

Indeed, and properly exportable to boot:

In Vietnam

India

and Europe

"In Europe, the Terry Fox Run is run in Italy, England, Ireland, the Czech Republic, Finland, Bosnia,

Yugoslavia and Germany."

To name but a few.

[jdobbin]

To name but a few.

Run for over 16 years in Japan.

https://secsvr.com/fourseasons-tokyo.com/ev...070814_01e.html

[Visionseeker]

You are the typical, self hating Canadian.

Ah yes, the self-hating line.

Most commonly used to deride Israelis or Jews who criticize the occupation and settlement of Palestinian lands, mikedavid now introduces this puerile label to a discussion about multiculturalism. Why you may ask?

Because he is finding it increasingly difficult to intellectually support his position.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Visionseeker

[August1991]

So you see, me. I'm multicultural. I'm the real thing. I'm SOO multicultural that I don't even think about. I don't even notice.

We had this dinner party yesterday and about a dozen people showed up.

...

So you see we had a wide seelction of poeple with different colours and different backgrounds. Some born here in Canada, some not. Most from Toronto, but almost half from elsewhere.

MikeDavid, during your dinner party, what language did you speak? Or rather, in MikeDavid bipolar speak: WHAT LANGUAGE DID YOU SPEAK?

English, I'll bet. A Toronto crowd. Been there, done that.

Which brings me to Canada's nature and this post above:

We surely don't share a common language. The government and the bureaucracy confirm this all the time. Sure, in some parts of Canada English and French have significant numbers. Yet, language across Canada is hodgepodge.

Exactly.

People in Canada do not speak the same language. Canada is a bilingual country where most people don't speak two languages.

Language is only 1 part of culture despite what Quebec wants you to believe.

WTF?

If I understand properly, MikeDavid wants all immigrants to assimilate and become "Canadian". What language will these "Canadians" speak, MD?

This is probably the first worthwhile thing MikeDavid00 has ever posted here.

It sums up why many of us believe in a "melting pot" concept rather than a "mosaic" concept.

-k

I'm astonished, Kimmy. Your posts usually show insight. What language does the "melting pot" speak?

If we are to have a united, federal state called Canada, then we must have a country that recognizes two languages. There can be no homogeneous melting pot. Each person must be free to choose. We must have a mosaic.

I'm not even certain that we can limit ourselves to two languages. If we did, then Canada would be a country of "Two Founding Peoples" with two melting pots. But Albertans, Newfoundlanders and Torontonians are so different, I am told. Le Canada est bien plus que Deux Nations, dit-on. You French think that we English are all the same. We're not, so I hear.

Welcome to the future.

----

In another thread, Black Dog posted that federal multicultural policies amount to a way for bureaucrats to cadge money. Maybe we should leave questions of "culture" to provincial bureaucrats. The problem with that solution is that people in Ontario (MD for example) want a country - they're afraid of becoming another Michigan. (MD's OP is laughable in Quebec, and Newfoundland.)

So, we're left with "multiculturalism". A word or term without precise definition. The world is wrong? Your life is awry? Blame multiculturalism. It's more polite than blaming the Jews.

Edited September 14, 2007 by August1991

[Visionseeker]

Who cooks Sushi?

LOL!