"Harper rips Elections Canada over veil ruling"

[betsy]

"Harper rips Elections Canada over veil ruling

SYDNEY, Australia (CP) - Prime Minister Stephen Harper says Elections Canada is subverting the will of Parliament by permitting Muslim women to wear veils and burkas while voting.

Harper, speaking Saturday in Sydney, Australia, after an international summit, said he "profoundly disagrees" with the ruling prompted by three byelections in Quebec on Sept. 17.

Harper says the House of Commons just voted in favour of having all Canadian voters provide visual identification at voting stations.

He says Elections Canada's ruling goes in an entirely different direction.

The prime minister, who has been battling with the arms-length elections regulator for years, said Elections Canada's role is to enforce the law, not to make new ones. "

© The Canadian Press, 2007

He is not pulling any punches!

[jbg]

He is not pulling any punches!

Nor should he. Political correctness is like a cancer on the West. We need to believe in ourselves first.

[Drea]

Most voting stations (usually elementary school gyms) I have been to have women volunteers working there... why not just have the muslim woman show her face to the woman volunteer? This way, her identity is verified without a man having to see her face. Simple solution really. No need to get everyone's knickers knotted.

[jbg]

Most voting stations (usually elementary school gyms) I have been to have women volunteers working there... why not just have the muslim woman show her face to the woman volunteer? This way, her identity is verified without a man having to see her face. Simple solution really. No need to get everyone's knickers knotted.

Not a bad idea, gbut the goal here by the Muslims is to set themselves apart and impose their ways on the West.

[Drea]

How is this imposing their way of life? Muslims are not forcing any christian, buddist, atheist, or anyone Canadian (or American) to wear the hajib.

Last summer an Indian family was swimming at the lake. All of them fully clothed in the water. Should the men be forced to wear speedo's and the women string bikini's? They looked really weird swimming in all those clothes, maybe we should force them to take them off? Whaddya think jbg? Good idea?

[betsy]

Most voting stations (usually elementary school gyms) I have been to have women volunteers working there... why not just have the muslim woman show her face to the woman volunteer?

And if there are no women volunteers?

Anyway, why should we have a different law to accomodate them?

The solution is simple: you don't want to remove your burka, then don't vote.

You want to vote, then remove that burka. Show your face like everyone else!

Edited September 9, 2007 by betsy

[betsy]

How is this imposing their way of life? Muslims are not forcing any christian, buddist, atheist, or anyone Canadian (or American) to wear the hajib.

No. But if we follow your suggestion....they are forcing THIS society to to do it THEIR way!

[Drea]

No. But if we follow your suggestion....they are forcing THIS society to to do it THEIR way!

on CTV newsnet right now they are discussing this... turn on your TV! LOL Actually it will be on a 5pm my time. You might want to watch it...

Cheers!

Edited to add: I have a g/friend who refuses to go to a male doctor. Because of the history of OUR culture where only men WERE doctors, is she forcing her way of life on others by only seeing a female doctor? Or is she completely within her rights to refuse the male doctor?

Edited September 9, 2007 by Drea

[betsy]

on CTV newsnet right now they are discussing this... turn on your TV! LOL Actually it will be on a 5pm my time. You might want to watch it...

Cheers!

Darn...it's not on anymore. I missed it.

Edited to add: I have a g/friend who refuses to go to a male doctor. Because of the history of OUR culture where only men WERE doctors, is she forcing her way of life on others by only seeing a female doctor? Or is she completely within her rights to refuse the male doctor?

No. How can she be forcing her way on us by refusing to see a male doctor? Anyway, she has a choice....there are female doctors.

And if there are no female doctors, then she still has the choice whether to see the male doctor or not.

Btw, does this mean that women in Islamic countries do not see doctors at all? If they are under Taliban or fundamentalists' rule, it is only logical to assume that there can be no women doctors (since no women are allowed to be educated). What then?

However, this is no comparison to the burka issue during elections.

[Pliny]

No. But if we follow your suggestion....they are forcing THIS society to to do it THEIR way!

No one can be forced to do anything without a law to back up the force.

So Drea, if you're girlfriend wishes to see a female doctor only, she is entirely within her rights.

If the "hajib" is wished to be worn during voting you are asking to change the law as it exists to accommodate a "special interest".

You are essentially then forcing laws to cater to a special interest. they would have to eliminate any law to be identified at the voting booth to fairly and justly satisfy all interests - an option I doubt they will entertain.

[geoffrey]

When I vote, I want to be in completely disguise and I'll only reveal my identity to a blind man, as it's part of my religious beliefs you see.

We can't bend for people's irrational beliefs. Who cares? Let's move on and have everyone be in an identifiable state not only in the voting booth but in society as a whole.

[Leafless]

Let's move on and have everyone be in an identifiable state not only in the voting booth but in society as a whole.

That is a good point having everyone be in an identifiable state anywhere in society.

I mean just think of the crimes that can be committed while under the wraps of a burka, everything from shoplifting to murder, including men disguised in a burka pulling off these potential crimes.

[Pliny]

That is a good point having everyone be in an identifiable state anywhere in society.

I mean just think of the crimes that can be committed while under the wraps of a burka, everything from shoplifting to murder, including men disguised in a burka pulling off these potential crimes.

Yeah but women don't count anyway. They don't need to be identified except when voting as their husbands wish them to vote.

Politicians don't need burkas. They are unaccountable.

[Drea]

No one can be forced to do anything without a law to back up the force.

So Drea, if you're girlfriend wishes to see a female doctor only, she is entirely within her rights.

If the "hajib" is wished to be worn during voting you are asking to change the law as it exists to accommodate a "special interest".

You are essentially then forcing laws to cater to a special interest. they would have to eliminate any law to be identified at the voting booth to fairly and justly satisfy all interests - an option I doubt they will entertain.

So when we made accommodations for people in wheelchairs, we we accommodating a special interest. Used to be we said "You wanna vote?WALK to the voting station!" But that wasn't fair so we installed wheelchair ramps.

The muslim woman is completely within her rights to request a female registrar if she is required to show her face/hair. If there is no female registrar she should have the option to wait until there is one so she can cast her vote.

How is this impeding on anyone?

Leafless if you suspect a woman is shoplifting under her garments (a hijab, a big winter coat, or a long skirt can hide stolen items) do the male police search her or do they bring in a female officer?

They bring in a female officer.

We already accommodate for the female thief, why not accommodate for the female muslim?

By bringing in a female officer to search the female thief, are we destroying our culture? LOL

Geez people, talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill

[bush_cheney2004]

When I vote, I want to be in completely disguise and I'll only reveal my identity to a blind man, as it's part of my religious beliefs you see.

Ha! This story is too funny...when Parliament explicitly expressed the requirements, PM Harper is the bad guy for insisting on same.

I predict that retail sales of masks will soar.....early favorites being the Lone Ranger or Zorro.

Happy Halloween!

Edited September 9, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[geoffrey]

So when we made accommodations for people in wheelchairs, we we accommodating a special interest. Used to be we said "You wanna vote?WALK to the voting station!" But that wasn't fair so we installed wheelchair ramps.

The muslim woman is completely within her rights to request a female registrar if she is required to show her face/hair. If there is no female registrar she should have the option to wait until there is one so she can cast her vote.

The Muslim female can simply not wear the headcovering, the handicapped individual can't just choose to not be a parapelegic.

How is this impeding on anyone?

If elections officials can't identify people voting, it calls into question the realibility of the whole process. Why not just identify yourself to one officer, then wait until their lunch break, come back and vote again with another. Having your identity ready scruntizable by everyone in the room makes that much less possible. "Hey, I've seen you here earlier!"

[cynic43]

So when we made accommodations for people in wheelchairs, we we accommodating a special interest. Used to be we said "You wanna vote?WALK to the voting station!" But that wasn't fair so we installed wheelchair ramps.

The muslim woman is completely within her rights to request a female registrar if she is required to show her face/hair. If there is no female registrar she should have the option to wait until there is one so she can cast her vote.

How is this impeding on anyone?

Leafless if you suspect a woman is shoplifting under her garments (a hijab, a big winter coat, or a long skirt can hide stolen items) do the male police search her or do they bring in a female officer?

They bring in a female officer.

We already accommodate for the female thief, why not accommodate for the female muslim?

By bringing in a female officer to search the female thief, are we destroying our culture? LOL

Geez people, talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill

Exactly!

Finally an intelligent comment

[Posit]

Ha! This story is too funny...when Parliament explicitly expressed the requirements, PM Harper is the bad guy for insisting on same.

I predict that retail sales of masks will soar.....early favorites being the Lone Ranger or Zorro.

Happy Halloween!

The problem for Harper is that the Charter Rights over-rule him, every time. It doesn't matter what Canadian laws aren't being complied with either since all Charter law over-rules it too.

[bush_cheney2004]

The problem for Harper is that the Charter Rights over-rule him, every time. It doesn't matter what Canadian laws aren't being complied with either since all Charter law over-rules it too.

Roger that...we call it Charter Politics down here.

[geoffrey]

The problem for Harper is that the Charter Rights over-rule him, every time. It doesn't matter what Canadian laws aren't being complied with either since all Charter law over-rules it too.

All parties agree with Harper on this one. Your on your own.

[jennie]

All parties agree with Harper on this one. Your on your own.

"ALL PARTIES"?

Who do you speak for geoffry?

[Pliny]

So when we made accommodations for people in wheelchairs, we we accommodating a special interest. Used to be we said "You wanna vote?WALK to the voting station!" But that wasn't fair so we installed wheelchair ramps.

Yes, you are accommodating a special interest. No law, that caters to a special interest, should be a law. Installing a wheelchair ramp would be a courtesy. Legislating that wheelchair ramps or assigning parking stalls is a necessity is unfair. I would praise those that make the accommodation of their own accord but it would be their decision as to whether it was necessary to do so.

The muslim woman is completely within her rights to request a female registrar if she is required to show her face/hair. If there is no female registrar she should have the option to wait until there is one so she can cast her vote.

How is this impeding on anyone?

If it doesn't change the law to favour them it doesn't impede on anyone. You are right they are within their rights to ask to be accommodated but they must remain subject to the same law of identification as everyone else.

Leafless if you suspect a woman is shoplifting under her garments (a hijab, a big winter coat, or a long skirt can hide stolen items) do the male police search her or do they bring in a female officer?

They bring in a female officer.

We already accommodate for the female thief, why not accommodate for the female muslim?

By bringing in a female officer to search the female thief, are we destroying our culture? LOL

Geez people, talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill

Making legislation is very important. Your analogous comparisons make the whole issue seem unimportant but the factor of societal; or co-operative accommodation, as opposed to governmental; or forced accommodation upon society, are quite different.

[Pliny]

Exactly!

Finally an intelligent comment

You mean, a comment with which you can agree. Rather egotisitical to consider it intelligent.

[old_bold&cold]

I back Harper on this and say that election Canada was wrong and must reverse itself. If the Muslim women want to mount a Charter Challenge then so be. But let them pay the costs of such a challenge. For now the law stands and must be enforced. That is the way it should be.

[betsy]

We already accommodate for the female thief, why not accommodate for the female muslim?

Do you equate a female muslim with that of a criminal?

Hmmm....actually, maybe not a bad idea. The female officer can identify, AND THEN proceed to do a search under that burka.

Or under that hijab.

Cheers!

Edited September 9, 2007 by betsy