This is America!

[bush_cheney2004]

Back to the topic. Today I was out jogging, and noticed a unique piece of Americana; a basketball hoop whose net is red, white and blue.

That's cool...reminds me of the old red-white-blue ball from the former ABA (basketball league). Even better, the game was invented by a Canadian (James Naismith) while teaching at Springfield, Mass in the 1890's. More to your point, I don't recall pop items in mapleleaf colors compared to the stars and stripes (e.g. clothing, ceramics, bike helmets, or pickup truck window tint.)

Edited September 29, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

Do you? I'm getting tired of your attempts at intelligence which barely pass as sarcasm and/or insults.

Good grief. It wasn't an insult to question if you even know what you've been saying since you did a complete turnabout, completely contradicting your last half a dozen posts or so. Seriously. Read through them and see what you had to say.

[jbg]

Good grief. It wasn't an insult to question if you even know what you've been saying since you did a complete turnabout, completely contradicting your last half a dozen posts or so. Seriously. Read through them and see what you had to say.

In general (and maybe you're an exception) conservatives are considered by liberals as rednecked bigots.

[sharkman]

Jbg, I really must say, you have much more patience than I in dealing with far left liberals who's arrogance in attacking one of their own only shows conservatives how narrow minded some of them are.

You kind of remind me of Reagan's story on how he switched from the Dems to the Republicans. He said he never left the Democrat party, the Democrat party left him.

[Guest American Woman]

In general (and maybe you're an exception) conservatives are considered by liberals as rednecked bigots.

Really? Thanks for that valuable information. But since that's the case, and since you said so it must be, evidently I am an "exception"-- while you obviously are not.

Here's a tip. You might not want to judge all liberals by you since you are no liberal. And pick up your little lapdog and give him a bone ... his yapping is annoying.

[jbg]

You kind of remind me of Reagan's story on how he switched from the Dems to the Republicans. He said he never left the Democrat party, the Democrat party left him.

Thanks.

I haven't switched enrollments yet. However, I may briefly switch to the GOP this winter to vote for Giuliani in the February 5, 2008 primary and then switch back. Sharkman, my approach goes issue by issue. I am conservative on some, liberal on far more. The ones I am "liberal" on tend not to be the ones covered by boards. I will say the positions of many Democrats are revolting to me.

The problem is that the Republicans garbage it up so often with rank racism and xenophia, Lou Dobbs being "Exhibit A". In the US, many people are pro-immigration because, in the absence of an extensive social welfare network, our immigrants tend to be forces for good as opposed to bad, on balance. Most are eager to learn English, and in fact oversubscribe adult English programs that are offered. Our immigrants work hard, and are often just as proud of their American identity as I am.

[jbg]

Here's a tip. You might not want to judge all liberals by you since you are no liberal. And pick up your little lapdog and give him a bone ... his yapping is annoying.

I don't have a dog. And as for breeds, I don't like lapdogs. I like my dogs big.

My favorite breeds are Labrador and Golden Retrievers, despite their vicious temperament.

[Fortunata]

QUOTE(jbg @ Sep 29 2007, 02:52 PM) *

And do you really think a conservative bigot would care if minority group members freeze during the winter?

I don't think all conservatives are uncaring nor do I think all conservatives are bigots.

I grew up in the bastion of conservatism - Alberta. People there would let their own freeze first before they would let a neighbour freeze or go hungry. I don't know where you get your idea of conservatism jbg or why you promote it but I'm sure it serves your "liberal" purposes somehow.

conservatives are considered by liberals as rednecked bigots.

Now that's funny. Many conservatives on here are bigots, you included. Look how you talk about Muslims, the French etc. But thankfully not all conservative minded people are bigots, just not like all liberals are ___________ (use your own word here). Generalizing bad.

Jbg, I really must say, you have much more patience than I in dealing with far left liberals who's arrogance in attacking one of their own only shows conservatives how narrow minded some of them are.

That's even funnier. Jbg is no liberal even though he thinks he's a hero for defending the downtrodden once or twice. But how do you convince a peanut he's not an almond? Not sure you can.

I like my dogs big.

Of course you do. ______ ______, big dog syndrome.

Edited September 30, 2007 by Fortunata

[jbg]

Now that's funny. Many conservatives on here are bigots, you included. Look how you talk about Muslims, the French etc. But thankfully not all conservative minded people are bigots, just not like all liberals are ___________ (use your own word here). Generalizing bad.

That's even funnier. Jbg is no liberal even though he thinks he's a hero for defending the downtrodden once or twice.

And what have you done for the downtrodden? Have you saved a house from foreclosure by predatory lenders and charged 1/4 the amount of time spent? Have you, without charge, kept an apartment building going through a New York winter, making sure the money went to heat, not landlords?

[sharkman]

And pick up your little lapdog and give him a bone ... his yapping is annoying.

Ah yes, getting bitter, are we? You far left liberals are some of the most closed minded people out there, and will be the cause of the 2008 loss, if the Dems manage to squander away a gift wrapped win. Here's a hint, snotiness is not an adequate substitute for actual content and reveals a lack of substance.

[bush_cheney2004]

Ah yes, getting bitter, are we? You far left liberals are some of the most closed minded people out there, and will be the cause of the 2008 loss, if the Dems manage to squander away a gift wrapped win. Here's a hint, snotiness is not an adequate substitute for actual content and reveals a lack of substance.

True...the "Do Gooders" of the far left will manage to screw it up again for the Democratic party, even as Billary warns them to shut up. MoveOn.org has already started to unravel the party.

[Guest coot]

True...the "Do Gooders" of the far left will manage to screw it up again for the Democratic party, even as Billary warns them to shut up. MoveOn.org has already started to unravel the party.

Are you talking about the manufactured outrage over the "General Betray-us" thing? Most people agree that he's betraying the soldiers, leaving them to die so that Bush can save face and delay the inevitable retreat. I don't think legitimate criticism ever really offends anyone.

[bush_cheney2004]

Are you talking about the manufactured outrage over the "General Betray-us" thing? Most people agree that he's betraying the soldiers, leaving them to die so that Bush can save face and delay the inevitable retreat. I don't think legitimate criticism ever really offends anyone.

Most people? Does that include Canadians doing the exact same thing in Afghanistan? Stick with Taliban Jack.

[Fortunata]

And what have you done for the downtrodden? Have you saved a house from foreclosure by predatory lenders and charged 1/4 the amount of time spent? Have you, without charge, kept an apartment building going through a New York winter, making sure the money went to heat, not landlords?

LOL jbg. In my community we are non-denominational politically and religiously when it comes to community work. That's why your posts re: liberals and conservatives are so funny and how you must be a liberal because you actually "helped" some poor people. Where I grew up and where I now live people work together to help where there is a need. And now you want me to list my efforts to help the downtrodden ... so what? ..you can compare it with yours? Sorry, I can sleep well at night as can most people in my community knowing what I have done and knowing what I can do and all this without outside approval to make me feel whole. You see, there are doers and then there are braggers.

[jbg]

LOL jbg. In my community we are non-denominational politically and religiously when it comes to community work. That's why your posts re: liberals and conservatives are so funny and how you must be a liberal because you actually "helped" some poor people. Where I grew up and where I now live people work together to help where there is a need. And now you want me to list my efforts to help the downtrodden ... so what? ..you can compare it with yours? Sorry, I can sleep well at night as can most people in my community knowing what I have done and knowing what I can do and all this without outside approval to make me feel whole. You see, there are doers and then there are braggers.

Fortunata, I am tired of your continual personal attacks. They are childish.

[Guest coot]

Most people? Does that include Canadians doing the exact same thing in Afghanistan? Stick with Taliban Jack.

Most people, as in The Majority. http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/20...iraq-poll_x.htm

Ah yes, pull out another canned response: either "Clinton did it too" or "Canadians do it too in Afghanistan." Too bad your arguments rarely make any sense in terms of the context. What's Canada got to do with it?

[bush_cheney2004]

Most people, as in The Majority. http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/20...iraq-poll_x.htm

Ah yes, pull out another canned response: either "Clinton did it too" or "Canadians do it too in Afghanistan." Too bad your arguments rarely make any sense in terms of the context. What's Canada got to do with it?

But like the others, you keep coming back for more, even if just a canned response. Hearing my footsteps, you anticipate and brace for the counter....amazing!

[jbg]

Speaking of "This is America", a topic from which this thread keeps diverging, this news article is a bit disturbing. I honestly hope this is not America (link). This is shameful. Excerpts below:

September 30, 2007

Ideas & Trends

Reporting While Black

By SOLOMON MOORE

THE police officer had not asked my name or my business before grabbing my wrists, jerking my hands high behind my back and slamming my head into the hood of his cruiser.

“You have no right to put your hands on me!” I shouted lamely.

“This is a high-crime area,” said the officer as he expertly handcuffed me. “You were loitering. We have ordinances against loitering.”

Last month, while talking to a group of young black men standing on a sidewalk in Salisbury, N.C., about harsh antigang law enforcement tactics some states are using, I had discovered the main challenge to such measures: the police have great difficulty determining who is, and who is not, a gangster.

My reporting, however, was going well. I had gone to Salisbury to find someone who had firsthand experience with North Carolina’s tough antigang stance, and I had found that someone: me.

Except that I didn’t quite fit the type of person I was seeking. I am African-American, like the subjects of my reporting, but I’m not really cut out for the thug life. At 37 years old, I’m beyond the street-tough years. I suppose I could be taken for an “O.G.,” or “original gangster,” except that I don’t roll like that — I drive a Volvo station wagon and have two young homeys enrolled in youth soccer leagues.

*********

While it is true that I, like many of today’s gang members, shave my head bald, in my case it’s less about urban style and more about letting nature take its course. Apart from my complexion, the only thing I had in common with the young men watching me smooch the hood of the black-and-white was that they too had been in that position — some of them, they would tell me later, with just as little provocation.

But here again I failed to live up to the “street cred” these forceful police officers had granted me. As the female officer delved into my back pocket for my wallet she found no cash from illicit corner sales, in fact no cash at all, though she did find evidence of my New York crew — my corporate identification card.

After a quick check for outstanding warrants, the handcuffs were unlocked and my wallet returned without apology or explanation beyond their implication that my approaching young black men on a public sidewalk was somehow flouting the law.

“This is a dangerous area,” the officer told me. “You can’t just stand out here. We have ordinances.”

“This is America,”

I said angrily, in that moment supremely unconcerned about whether this was standard police procedure or a useful law enforcement tool or whatever anybody else wanted to call it. “I have a right to talk to anyone I like, wherever I like.”

The female officer trumped my naïve soliloquy, though: “Sir, this is the South. We have different laws down here.”

I tried to appeal to the African-American officer out of some sense of solidarity.

“This is bad area,” he told me. “We have to protect ourselves out here.”

As the police drove away, I turned again to my would-be interview subjects. Surely now they believed I was a reporter.

I found their skepticism had only deepened.

“Man, you know what would have happened to one of us if we talked to them that way?” said one disbelieving man as he walked away from me and my blank notebook. “We’d be in jail right now.”

Edited October 1, 2007 by jbg

[bush_cheney2004]

Speaking of "This is America", a topic from which this thread keeps diverging, this news article is a bit disturbing. I honestly hope this is not America (link). This is shameful. Excerpts below:

But it is America...been that way for a long time...and far worse. It's also Quebec City for that matter. This is a variation of "driving while black", and not very original at that. The police officers didn't apologize because they don't have to, and more importantly, risk litigation by admitting improper / illegal procedure. Turning to a black officer for sympathy is hopelessly naive.

[jbg]

But it is America...been that way for a long time...and far worse. It's also Quebec City for that matter. This is a variation of "driving while black", and not very original at that. The police officers didn't apologize because they don't have to, and more importantly, risk litigation by admitting improper / illegal procedure. Turning to a black officer for sympathy is hopelessly naive.

But when it became obvious that a NY Times reporter wasn't some "gangsta" they should have let him/her go.

[Fortunata]

Fortunata, I am tired of your continual personal attacks. They are childish.

LOL. You asked me a question, I answered. No personal attack there. And childish? Childish is if I had answered in big fancy coloured fonts.

[bush_cheney2004]

But when it became obvious that a NY Times reporter wasn't some "gangsta" they should have let him/her go.

Perhaps, but that just leads to more questions about class and race, profiling, etc.

Edited October 2, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[jawapunk]

All I have to say in response to the original argument about freedom of speech in the US is:

Don't Taze me BRO!"

Edited October 4, 2007 by jawapunk

[jbg]

Back on topic.

Tonight, the Jamaican female, black partner in our office, in a stirring and beautiful ceremony, was sworn is as Town Judge in a nearby Town. The Town is a diverse mixture of Italians, Jews, blacks and other ethnic groups. The Town Supervisor was the committee leader when I was in Students for McGovern during the Spring of 1972.

The evening began with our ubiquitous "Pledge of Allegiance" to the flag, where all people in the room, black, white, immigrant alike placed their hands on their heart and recited "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to this Republic for which it stands, one nation, under G-d, indivisible, with liberty, and justice, for all".

The last 11 words of the Pledge, while not referenced in the speeches, were quite definitely the underlying theme of the evening. First, after the Pledge, her preacher gave a memorable introductory speech about how tonight's swearing in represented the "best in America", which a descendant of slaves was elected to a position of honor and trust. He said that frequently he still had to speak out about the "worst in America", but tongiht was different.

When the new Judge spoke, she was mostly thanking her supporters, but started out thanking

G-d. America, a country with no official religion, and indeed no government support of religion, is indeed a deeply religious country, right down to the flesh and bones of its people. It is a wonderful place.

[Moxie]

But when it became obvious that a NY Times reporter wasn't some "gangsta" they should have let him/her go.

The South is stuck in the sixties jbg.

My husband was in the Gulf of Mexico doing some work, his co-worker and he went out for lunch one day. The waitress informed my husband's friend that he wasn't welcome, stunned hubby asked why. Because he's black and we don't serve insert the N word. His coworker is from Nigeria, my husband was stunned. He informed her that she could be sued for discrimination, she just laughed. Jebus it's the twenty first century and this kind of garbage is going on.

They left but Hubby made sure all the rig pigs new what had transpired, I doubt she has much business anymore-- white or black. Sickening stuff.