Republican Senator Convicted

[jdobbin]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20467347/

MINNEAPOLIS - Sen. Larry Craig of Idaho pleaded guilty this month to misdemeanor disorderly conduct after being arrested at the Minneapolis airport.

A Hennepin County court docket showed Craig pleading guilty to the disorderly conduct charge Aug. 8, with the court dismissing a charge of gross misdemeanor interference to privacy.

The court docket said the Republican senator was fined $1,000, plus $575 in fees. He was put on unsupervised probation for a year. A sentence of 10 days in the county workhouse was stayed.

Quite the shocking state of events for this Senator.

[Riverwind]

Quite the shocking state of events for this Senator.

This entire case stinks and not because of what the senator did:

Roll Call, citing the report, said Sgt. Dave Karsnia made the arrest after an encounter in which he was seated in a stall next to a stall occupied by Craig. Karsnia described Craig tapping his foot, which Karsnia said he “recognized as a signal used by persons wishing to engage in lewd conduct.”

He was accused of tapping his foot and some officer interpreted that as a "desire to engage in lewd conduct"? Sounds ridiculous too me.

[jdobbin]

He was accused of tapping his foot and some officer interpreted that as a "desire to engage in lewd conduct"? Sounds ridiculous too me.

He pleaded guilty. Why didn't he fight to clear his name?

[Riverwind]

--

Edited August 27, 2007 by Riverwind

[Riverwind]

He pleaded guilty. Why didn't he fight to clear his name?

Let's see - a public figure accused of a lewd crime that comes with a minor fine. Pleading not guilty would guarantee that his name would dragged through the mud. Pleading guilty was a reasonable option given the circumstances. Keep in mind that I don't usually make a habit of defending Rebuplican senators but this sounds like a politically motivated smear job unless there was evidence that was not explained in the artical that you posted.

[bush_cheney2004]

Quite the shocking state of events for this Senator.

Yawn...a non-event.

Edited August 28, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[jdobbin]

Let's see - a public figure accused of a lewd crime that comes with a minor fine. Pleading not guilty would guarantee that his name would dragged through the mud. Pleading guilty was a reasonable option given the circumstances. Keep in mind that I don't usually make a habit of defending Rebuplican senators but this sounds like a politically motivated smear job unless there was evidence that was not explained in the artical that you posted.

Pleading guilty pretty means you accept the court's decision regarding your behaviour. It doesn't keep the chain of events secret.

I think you have it wrong what a smear campaign is. A smear campaign is when someone makes an accusation against you and does not present any evidence of such. I believe this is qualifies as a smear campaign:

Last fall, Craig called allegations from a gay-rights activist that he’s had homosexual relationships “completely ridiculous.”

Mike Rogers, who bills himself as a gay activist blogger, published the allegations on his Web site, http://www.blogactive.com/, in October 2006.

I never bothered to post that here because I believed it was part of a smear campaign. However, now that the Senator has pleaded guilty, the mainstream media is reporting it.

The problem in public washrooms in rest stops, airports and department stores has been an ongoing one for many years. Security can see that a certain behaviour is happening but it is often hard to prove an offence is happening unless caught in the act.

I think the arresting officer in Minneapolis wasn't out to smear someone in an airport washroom when the Senator did this:

Sgt. Dave Karsnia made the arrest after an encounter in which he was seated in a stall next to a stall occupied by Craig. Karsnia described Craig tapping his foot, which Karsnia said he “recognized as a signal used by persons wishing to engage in lewd conduct.”

Roll Call quoted the Aug. 8 police report as saying that Craig had handed the arresting officer a business card that identified him as a member of the Senate.

“What do you think about that?” Craig is alleged to have said, according to the report.

I don't know about you but I don't hand my business card under the stall ever.

[Riverwind]

I don't know about you but I don't hand my business card under the stall ever.

Fair enough. But was this guy on the record as a gay bashing family values guy? If not what this guy does with consenting adults is his business. Edited August 28, 2007 by Riverwind

[August1991]

Let's see - a public figure accused of a lewd crime that comes with a minor fine. Pleading not guilty would guarantee that his name would dragged through the mud. Pleading guilty was a reasonable option given the circumstances. Keep in mind that I don't usually make a habit of defending Rebuplican senators but this sounds like a politically motivated smear job unless there was evidence that was not explained in the artical that you posted.

I don't agree Riverwind. Whether he pleaded guilty or not, his name was going to attract attention.

I even see a difference between this case and Clinton. Clinton wasn't a hypocrite about his sexual opinions. From what I can gather, this guy is not considered "progressive" on "social issues".

[Guest American Woman]

He evidently did more than tap his foot:

"[sgt. Dave] Karsnia entered the bathroom at noon that day and about 13 minutes after taking a seat in a stall, he stated he could see 'an older white male with grey hair standing outside my stall.'

The man, who lingered in front of the stall for two minutes, was later identified as Craig.

Craig then entered the stall next to Karsnia’s and placed his roller bag against the front of the stall door. ...

'At 1216 hours, Craig tapped his right foot. I recognized this as a signal used by persons wishing to engage in lewd conduct. Craig tapped his toes several times and moves his foot closer to my foot. I moved my foot up and down slowly. While this was occurring, the male in the stall to my right was still present. I could hear several unknown persons in the restroom that appeared to use the restroom for its intended use. The presence of others did not seem to deter Craig as he moved his right foot so that it touched the side of my left foot which was within my stall area,' the report states.

Craig then proceeded to swipe his hand under the stall divider several times, and Karsnia noted in his report that 'I could ... see Craig had a gold ring on his ring finger as his hand was on my side of the stall divider.'"

Link

As for handing Craig a business card identifying him as a Senator, it sounds as if that happened in an interview, after the arrest:

"At one point during the interview, Craig handed the plainclothes sergeant who arrested him a business card that identified him as a U.S. Senator and said, 'What do you think about that?' the report states. ..."

Edited August 28, 2007 by American Woman

[jdobbin]

Fair enough. But was this guy on the record as a gay bashing family values guy? If not what this guy does with consenting adults is his business.

Craig was at the forefront on legislation supporting family values.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Craig

Strongly Opposes Same-sex domestic partnership benefits. YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. NO on prohibiting job discrimination sexual orientation. NO on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. NO on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. YES on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage.

And this:

The American Conservative Union gave Craig's 2005 voting record 96 points out of 100. The liberal Americans for Democratic Action gave him 15. Considered a social conservative, Craig has long been an advocate of adoption. Senator Craig supports the Federal Marriage Amendment, voting for cloture on the amendment in both 2004 and 2006. He voted against cloture on a bill in 2002, which would have extended the federal definition hate crimes to cover sexual orientation.

Consenting adults can do what they want in their own homes. When they do it in public washrooms across the country, I believe it is inappropriate and the only way to discourage it is to make it illegal.

[Shakeyhands]

I find it amazing how many people, who are members of the party of family values, manage to get themselves arrested for what they would normaly decry as lewd behaviour, the list is lengthy....

[Riverwind]

I find it amazing how many people, who are members of the party of family values, manage to get themselves arrested for what they would normaly decry as lewd behaviour, the list is lengthy....

Self hate creates twisted minds...

What I can't figure out is why they think they won't get caught.

Edited August 28, 2007 by Riverwind

[jdobbin]

He evidently did more than tap his foot:

"[sgt. Dave] Karsnia entered the bathroom at noon that day and about 13 minutes after taking a seat in a stall, he stated he could see 'an older white male with grey hair standing outside my stall.'

The man, who lingered in front of the stall for two minutes, was later identified as Craig.

Craig then entered the stall next to Karsnia’s and placed his roller bag against the front of the stall door. ...

'At 1216 hours, Craig tapped his right foot. I recognized this as a signal used by persons wishing to engage in lewd conduct. Craig tapped his toes several times and moves his foot closer to my foot. I moved my foot up and down slowly. While this was occurring, the male in the stall to my right was still present. I could hear several unknown persons in the restroom that appeared to use the restroom for its intended use. The presence of others did not seem to deter Craig as he moved his right foot so that it touched the side of my left foot which was within my stall area,' the report states.

Craig then proceeded to swipe his hand under the stall divider several times, and Karsnia noted in his report that 'I could ... see Craig had a gold ring on his ring finger as his hand was on my side of the stall divider.'"

Thanks. I figured the incident didn't happen in the passing of several seconds.

Police and security have had to deal with this type of behaviour for decades. Unfortunately, some websites (according to a Winnipeg Free Press in a story several months ago) post which washrooms are good as meeting places. In my own neighborhood, a public washroom was identified in a large park. The story came to light when a child witnessed an incident. The newspaper then sent a reporter to observe a steady stream of single men head to that washroom after peak hours in the park.

I wouldn't doubt if the reason the officer was there in the first place was because this washroom was a problem spot in the past.

[Guest American Woman]

I wouldn't doubt if the reason the officer was there in the first place was because this washroom was a problem spot in the past.

You're right about that.

"Roll Call, a Capitol Hill newspaper, which first reported the case, said on its Web site Monday that Craig was arrested June 11 by a plainclothes officer investigating complaints of lewd conduct in a men's restroom at the airport." Link

So the officer was there to investigate complaints.

[August1991]

What I can't figure out is why they think they won't get caught.

I don't know if you've ever met a US Congressmen but the few that I've met really do believe that they belong to the most exclusive club in the world. They can do it, get caught and it doesn't matter. For sheer chutzpah, the only equivalent in Canada is Senators.

The story of the business card is telling. I wouldn't be surprised if this guy gets re-elected.

[kimmy]

He evidently did more than tap his foot:

"[sgt. Dave] Karsnia entered the bathroom at noon that day and about 13 minutes after taking a seat in a stall, he stated he could see 'an older white male with grey hair standing outside my stall.'

The cop was on the crapper for 13 minutes while he was on-duty?

-k

{fibre is your friend, officer.}

[jdobbin]

The story of the business card is telling. I wouldn't be surprised if this guy gets re-elected.

I don't know if he will ever be able to return to Idaho. Have you you ever been to Idaho?

[Guest American Woman]

The cop was on the crapper for 13 minutes while he was on-duty?

-k

{fibre is your friend, officer.}

He was investigating complaints about lewd behavior in the rest room at the airport; ie: being in "the crapper" was part of being on-duty. He wasn't in that long because he was in need of fiber.

[jdobbin]

Craig had a news conference today to defend his guilty plea in Minneapolis.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20467347/

WASHINGTON - Under fire from leaders of his own party, Idaho Sen. Larry Craig on Tuesday said the only thing he had done wrong was to plead guilty after a complaint of lewd conduct in a men’s room. He declared, “I am not gay. I never have been gay.”

“I did nothing wrong at the Minneapolis airport,” he said at a news conference with his wife, Suzanne, at his side.

He indicated that he had not told his family or his lawyer about the incident.

He said the only reason that he pleaded guilty was because he was afraid of an Idaho Statesman report that he was having gay affairs.

"I overreacted in Minneapolis because of the stress of the Idaho Statesman investigation and the rumors it has fueled all around Idaho," Craig said.

A few Republicans yesterday were saying this was a fuss about nothing. Today, however, GOP leaders were quick to call for an ethics investigation. One concern to them was the flashing of the Senator's business card to police in Minneapolis. An ethics investigation would look into whether the Senator was trying to thwart charges based on his position.

Senator Craig seemed defiant and would not comment on whether he would run again or not.

[scribblet]

Better not do any toe tapping next time your in a public loo

[Shakeyhands]

Better not do any toe tapping next time your in a public loo

or rubbing the persons foot next to you, or swiping your hand under the stall wall, or peeking through the cracks...

[runningdog]

He was investigating complaints about lewd behavior in the rest room at the airport; ie: being in "the crapper" was part of being on-duty. He wasn't in that long because he was in need of fiber.

ouch. You have to wonder what that cop did to get himself assigned to that type of duty. This guy is another of the republicans involved in the "page-boy scandal", no? Party of family values? LOL

[M.Dancer]

ouch. You have to wonder what that cop did to get himself assigned to that type of duty. This guy is another of the republicans involved in the "page-boy scandal", no? Party of family values? LOL

I had a thread deleted about a Republican blaming black men for solicitating sex.....best excuse ever

http://www.365gay.com/Newscon07/08/080607allen.htm

Tampa, Florida) State Rep. Bob Allen ®, a longtime foe of LGBT rights in Florida, has a bizarre excuse for being charged with offering a male cop $20 for oral sex in a washroom at a park.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289137,00.html

Edited August 29, 2007 by M.Dancer

[jdobbin]

For some Republicans who continue to think the Craig affairs is a non-event"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20467347/

WASHINGTON - Idaho Sen. Larry Craig’s political support eroded significantly Wednesday as three fellow Republicans in Congress called for his resignation and party leaders pushed him from senior committee posts.

The White House expressed its disappointment, too — and nary a word of support for the 62-year-old lawmaker, who pleaded guilty earlier this month to a charge stemming from an undercover police operation in an airport men’s room.

Craig “represents the Republican party,” said Rep. Pete Hoekstra of Michigan, the first fellow GOP member of Congress to urge a resignation.

Craig said Tuesday he had committed no wrongdoing and shouldn’t have pleaded guilty. He said he has only recently retained a lawyer to advise him in the case that threatens to write an ignominious end to a lifetime in public office.

Sens. John McCain of Arizona and Norm Coleman of Minnesota joined Hoekstra in urging Craig to step down.

McCain spoke out on an interview with CNN. “My opinion is that when you plead guilty to a crime, you shouldn’t serve. That’s not a moral stand. That’s not a holier-than-thou. It’s just a factual situation.”

We'll see if Craig dig in his heels. Perhaps he will hear from other Republicans who believe this is a non-event and stay.

Edited August 29, 2007 by jdobbin