Do Men Have More Sex Than Women?

[August1991]

EVERYONE knows men are promiscuous by nature. It’s part of the genetic strategy that evolved to help men spread their genes far and wide. The strategy is different for a woman, who has to go through so much just to have a baby and then nurture it. She is genetically programmed to want just one man who will stick with her and help raise their children.

Surveys bear this out. In study after study and in country after country, men report more, often many more, sexual partners than women.

...

One survey, recently reported by the federal government, concluded that men had a median of seven female sex partners. Women had a median of four male sex partners. Another study, by British researchers, stated that men had 12.7 heterosexual partners in their lifetimes and women had 6.5.

But there is just one problem, mathematicians say. It is logically impossible for heterosexual men to have more partners on average than heterosexual women. Those survey results cannot be correct.

It is about time for mathematicians to set the record straight, said David Gale, an emeritus professor of mathematics at the University of California, Berkeley.

“Surveys and studies to the contrary notwithstanding, the conclusion that men have substantially more sex partners than women is not and cannot be true for purely logical reasons,” Dr. Gale said.

He even provided a proof, writing in an e-mail message:

“By way of dramatization, we change the context slightly and will prove what will be called the High School Prom Theorem. We suppose that on the day after the prom, each girl is asked to give the number of boys she danced with. These numbers are then added up giving a number G. The same information is then obtained from the boys, giving a number B.

Theorem: G=B

Proof: Both G and B are equal to C, the number of couples who danced together at the prom. Q.E.D.”

...

One is that men are going outside the population to find partners, to prostitutes, for example, who are not part of the survey, or are having sex when they travel to other countries.

Another, of course, is that men exaggerate the number of partners they have and women underestimate.

...

Dr. Gale is still troubled. He said invoking women who are outside the survey population cannot begin to explain a difference of 75 percent in the number of partners, as occurred in the study saying men had seven partners and women four. Something like a prostitute effect, he said, “would be negligible.” The most likely explanation, by far, is that the numbers cannot be trusted.

Ronald Graham, a professor of mathematics and computer science at the University of California, San Diego, agreed with Dr. Gale. After all, on average, men would have to have three more partners than women, raising the question of where all those extra partners might be.

“Some might be imaginary,” Dr. Graham said. “Maybe two are in the man’s mind and one really exists.”

Gina Kolata, New York Times

The simple answer to this simple math is "sluts" - and that direct, anglo-saxon word carries all the meaning of the math.

In a small high school of 10 girls and 10 boys, 9 girls are shy. Only one girl dances with all 10 boys. The 10 boys report tht they have had 10 dances. Average among the boys? One partner. The 9 shy girls honestly answer "None!" except for the promiscuous slut who honestly answers "10!". Average among the girls? One partner.

IOW, the survey result turns critically on the honesty (or ability to count) of the promiscuous slut.

Average aside, the median will be different. You'll note that in the small high school example above, the median of girls with a dance partner is zero but the median of boys with a dance partner is one.

The Urban Dictionary offers as a definition of slut: a woman with the morals of a man.

I'm still wondering why sluts would be bad at math, or dishonest. IOW, I don't think it's the guys who are lying or exaggerating. It's the sluts, or maybe the gay guys who are confusing the stats.

Edited August 13, 2007 by August1991

[Moxie]

To say your temper tantrum is rude is an under statement, you assertain that women are lying and thus are sluts. Tisk, tisk date much?

[M.Dancer]

To say your temper tantrum is rude is an under statement, you assertain that women are lying and thus are sluts. Tisk, tisk date much?

Temper tantrum is redundant.

I was a slut before marriage. There were 10 girls and they all danced with me.....

[sucker punch]

The simple answer to this simple math is "sluts" - and that direct, anglo-saxon word carries all the meaning of the math.

In a small high school of 10 girls and 10 boys, 9 girls are shy. Only one girl dances with all 10 boys. The 10 boys report tht they have had 10 dances. Average among the boys? One partner. The 9 shy girls honestly answer "None!" except for the promiscuous slut who honestly answers "10!". Average among the girls? One partner.

IOW, the survey result turns critically on the honesty (or ability to count) of the promiscuous slut.

Average aside, the median will be different. You'll note that in the small high school example above, the median of girls with a dance partner is zero but the median of boys with a dance partner is one.

The Urban Dictionary offers as a definition of slut: a woman with the morals of a man.

I'm still wondering why sluts would be bad at math, or dishonest. IOW, I don't think it's the guys who are lying or exaggerating. It's the sluts, or maybe the gay guys who are confusing the stats.

I find it very interesting that the conclusion you jump to is "sluts."

Why don't you ask any stand-up comic since the beginning of time? PEOPLE LIE ABOUT THE NUMBER OF PARTNERS THEY'VE HAD!

[Argus]

Women are conditioned to think that people will think less of them if they report a high number of partners, and men are conditioned that people will think less of them if they report few or none. So of course, both sides lie.

[fellowtraveller]

She is genetically programmed to want just one man who will stick with her and help raise their children.

I do not think that is correct.

I recall reading an article on an interesting offshoot of DNA testing. The testing has become much cheaper in recent years, and is very popular now with people checking their genealogy. Apparently this has resulted in the realization that around 15% of children have a different biological father than they thought they had.

IMO, the female of our species is wired to seek both a safe, providing male partner, and genetic diversity. The two urges are not compatible in a single partner.

[M.Dancer]

I do not think that is correct.

I agree. When someone is removed from the environements that instill conditioned behavior, their behavior often changes. There is a rumour in Europe that North Ameican women are loose. We here scoff at that....until you travel (as a youth or young adult) and hang with North American Women. They are just as rowdy, lustful and wanton as any young man. There is also a rumour about European, Australian, New Zealand and South AFrcan women who travel in North America.....I believe the rumour is justified......

[August1991]

To say your temper tantrum is rude is an under statement, you assertain that women are lying and thus are sluts.

Not at all. In my simple example above, nine girls were Catholic virgins - only one was a slut. The 10 guys were the promiscuous ones.

The NYT article suggests - as does SuckerPunch - that people lie. Duh. (Argus in his sexist fashion suggests that women lie down whereas men lie up. Why? Why would a man want to claim more partners and a woman fewer partners? Are you more or less likely to spill salt or pepper?)

My OP accepted the obvious fact that people lie and then wondered about the source of the lie. I suggested that a few women sleep with many men and hence statistics depend critically on the reported partners of these few women (since the lies or confusion of all the guys will average out).

IOW, the reported statistics of these studies are essentially looking at the behaviour of a small group of women who, for lack of a better term, are so-called "sluts" (although I prefer the Urban Dictionary description: "women with the morals of a man").

I'll explain myself further here. Why does the term "slut" even exist (and why is it most commonly used among women to describe other women?) What is the equivalent term for men? Skirt chaser? Lady's man? (These are tame.)

Tisk, tisk date much?

I take a buy-and-hold approach to my investment decisions.

----

Since this thread has attracted some interest, let me note an error (IMHO) in the NYT article (and in Fellowtraveller's post).

EVERYONE knows men are promiscuous by nature. It’s part of the genetic strategy that evolved to help men spread their genes far and wide. The strategy is different for a woman, who has to go through so much just to have a baby and then nurture it. She is genetically programmed to want just one man who will stick with her and help raise their children.

The error?

Both women and men want to spread their genes far and wide (or to be more precise, their genes want to self-replicate). In this, men and women are no different. It happens however that females bring to this process a larger commitment than males. In military terms, women defend the fort with only 40 Howitzer shells whereas men have a large stockpile of 9 mm machine gun rounds. Their strategies of defence are obviously different.

Edited August 15, 2007 by August1991

[Rue]

To say your temper tantrum is rude is an under statement, you assertain that women are lying and thus are sluts. Tisk, tisk date much?

Hang on Moxie. He actually is not being sexist at all. Its absurdity masquerading as fact he has his issues with and I say hunbly he has proverbally hit the nail on the head with the hammer and I bow to his superior logic.

As for the word slut, I always liked the sound of the word.

I wish I was a slut. I am too old now and I can not afford plastic surgery.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Rue

[M.Dancer]

Hang on Moxie. He actually is not being sexist at all. Its absurdity masquerading as fact he has his issues with and I say hunbly he has proverbally hit the nail on the head with the hammer and I bow to his superior logic.

As for the word slut, I always liked the sound of the word.

I wish I was a slut. I am too old now and I can not afford plastic surgery.

I knew a fellow, Len, who was a self admitted slut into his 60s. He made sure women knew he was a slut because he said, if they know and want it, they know where to get it.

[RB]

I would say that women are having more partners now than previously.

Well, it seem to coincide with the delayed marriage, the dating scenarios with the many opportunities to try kissing as many frogs to get to finally get to a prince.

I wouldn't be too shock to hear of a very low statistics in number of virgins heading down the aisle

[Guest American Woman]

I wouldn't be too shock to hear of a very low statistics in number of virgins heading down the aisle

How many men want a virgin in this day and age? I can't see a guy being content with the woman saying "I'm gonna wait til we get married."

[CLRV]

This study isn't revealing anything new, apart from the fact that women are now feeling freer to be honest when answering these kinds of questions. The numbers never added up and a "slut" answer only demonatrates lack of statistical understanding. Even the most determined Town Pumps couldn't alter the numbers across the board in that degree.

I wonder if such new honesty will also get women to reconsider the "men are such pigs" stereotype? "Common wisdom" currently tells us that men are rampant, uncontrollable sex maniacs who will mindlessly dry-hump anything that gets in their way, while women are almost Vulcan in their sexual self-control.

We form this opinion early in our sexual lives, of couse. Young men are indeed as listed above, but the reality is we do chill out after a while. What we never discuss, however, is the same condition tends to affect women around the ages of 35-45. Studies are showing that women are admitting to extra-marital affairs to an equal or even greater degree than their male counterparts, particularly in the mid-life years.

Yet we never seem to get around to updating that whole "men are such pigs" thing.

[Guest American Woman]

Yet we never seem to get around to updating that whole "men are such pigs" thing.

This site addresses that issue.

[CLRV]

I was more asking when women would start amending this stereotype.

It's a safe bet that AskMen.com is men writing and I don't think you'll get any argument about this from men.

[Guest American Woman]

I was more asking when women would start amending this stereotype.

It's a safe bet that AskMen.com is men writing and I don't think you'll get any argument about this from men.

You had said: "Yet we never seem to get around to updating that whole 'men are such pigs' thing," so I thought the "we" meant men. If you read that site, it makes a point of saying it's women who say men are pigs, so really, it's men who have to say women are pigs. You can't really expect women to say women are pigs any more than you can expect men to go around saying men are pigs.

[Rue]

I would say that women are having more partners now than previously.

Well, it seem to coincide with the delayed marriage, the dating scenarios with the many opportunities to try kissing as many frogs to get to finally get to a prince.

I wouldn't be too shock to hear of a very low statistics in number of virgins heading down the aisle

On a more serious note, yes it would appear the rates of sexually transmitted diseases including herpes, the vd's and aids indicate this. Certainly the women's clinics which study health patterns among women have statistics to indicate this.

I am told by health care nurse friends there has been an obviousincrease in certain oral sexually transmitted diseases with young women who have the impression it is safer then regular sex and are being pressured by boys in school.

All kidding aside, my concern is not such absurd stories but that any young person or for that matter any person practice safe sex. I will save the moral judgements for others.

As for men, being one of them, I would say, I never met a man who hasn't lied about his sexual prowess. It comes built in with the pee pee.

Usually the smaller the pee pee the bigger the tale.

[CLRV]

Did you think I was saying that men should start calling women pigs?

I think a more reasonable interpretation might be that I was saying women should reconsider calling men pigs.

[Rue]

You had said: "Yet we never seem to get around to updating that whole 'men are such pigs' thing," so I thought the "we" meant men. If you read that site, it makes a point of saying it's women who say men are pigs, so really, it's men who have to say women are pigs. You can't really expect women to say women are pigs any more than you can expect men to go around saying men are pigs.

While I appreciate the point you are making I have no problems admitting I am a pig either.

Testosterone makes us men hogs. Being a hog is not the problem - keeping it in its proper

pen or perspective is. Oink. And to think I should be kosher.

[Black Dog]

I wonder if such new honesty will also get women to reconsider the "men are such pigs" stereotype?

Why is corecting this stereotype the collective resposibility of women. There's a lot of men who are willing to accept the stereotype. Indeed, many revel in it.

[White Doors]

Why is corecting this stereotype the collective resposibility of women. There's a lot of men who are willing to accept the stereotype. Indeed, many revel in it.

It doesn't bother me any.

oink oink.

[CLRV]

Why is corecting this stereotype the collective resposibility of women. There's a lot of men who are willing to accept the stereotype. Indeed, many revel in it.

So now it's time that women admitted that part of themselves too? That's what I've been saying.

[Black Dog]

So now it's time that women admitted that part of themselves too? That's what I've been saying.

Whoever denied it?

[CLRV]

Please. There's an enormous double standard.

When men do it, they're thinking with the wrong head. When women do it, the sisters are doin' it for themselves.

[Black Dog]

Please. There's an enormous double standard.

When men do it, they're thinking with the wrong head. When women do it, the sisters are doin' it for themselves.

If we're going to talk about double standards, I'd say that the slut/stud one is far more pervasive and damaging.