Universities will provide Muslim footbaths

[jbg]

This timely New York Sun article (link) on the University of Michigan's squandering of public moneys (nominally raised from tuitions) to meet the special pleading needs of a small segment of its student body shows the extent to which we are pandering to a homophobic, militaristic, violent group of people.

First, one must doubt whether footbaths are used in the arid lands from which Islam sprang. How often did Muhamed get a footbath? I want to know. Equally to the point, why is one religious group being accomodated to the exclusion of others. Do Jews have arks, complete with Torahs, installed in university buildings. What about a rosary for Catholics?

Are we turning our secular, public universities, long dedicated to academic and personal freedoms, into feudal religious enclaves? Should we subcontract their administration to the Taliban?

I wonder how the Gay Pride Chapter would react.

Excerpts below:

July 31, 2007 Edition > Section: National > Printer-Friendly Version

U. of Michigan Will Provide Muslim Footbaths

BY P.J. HUFFSTUTTER - Los Angeles Times

July 31, 2007

URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/59485

When Majed Afana needs to pray while attending classes at the University of Michigan at Dearborn, the 19-year-old Muslim usually will duck into the campus library's bathroom, strip off his shoes, and awkwardly strain to wash his feet in the sink.

Water often pools at his feet, he says, making it slippery to balance on one foot. Some of the sinks have started to pull away from the wall, in part from years of use by others like him — who, according to their faith, must clean their feet prior to praying five times a day. So when the school recently approved installing two footbaths in a pair of new unisex bathrooms, to accommodate the needs of both male and female Muslim students, the local Islamic community started planning ways to raise the estimated $25,000 cost.

But the university told them not to bother — it would pay for the footbaths.

"I think it's great," said Mr. Afana, a pre-med student at this commuter school, where about a reported 11% of the 8,700 students are Muslim. "What we've been doing all these years has been dangerous and can be a safety hazard."

The university says it's tapping student infrastructure fees for the unisex bathrooms, which will also have diaper-changing stations and facilities for mothers to nurse infants, because this is an issue of the school trying to make its bathrooms safer and improve its plumbing — not endorsing religion or promoting Islam.

And while the fees are part of the school's general fund, the money is paid by students, not taxpayers, and is often used for campus maintenance and general construction.

**snip**

Edited August 3, 2007 by jbg

[ScottSA]

Some of the sinks have started to pull away from the wall, in part from years of use by others like him — who, according to their faith, must clean their feet prior to praying five times a day.

Shouldn't someone send the local mosque a plumbing bill?

[gc1765]

I don't know about U. of Michigan, but at my University, anyone who wants to start a "club" can do so and get money from the University for it. There are several Christian/Jewish clubs. Not to mention that students have to pay for athletes, scholarships and a variety of other programs. I'm not saying it's right, but I suppose if it's a big deal then people could always choose another school?

[jbg]

I'm not saying it's right, but I suppose if it's a big deal then people could always choose another school?

I think people who can't adapt to our country's culture should find one more to their liking. Pakistan perhaps?

[gc1765]

I think people who can't adapt to our country's culture should find one more to their liking. Pakistan perhaps?

Why should they adapt to your culture, why shouldn't you adapt to theirs?

[jbg]

I think people who can't adapt to our country's culture should find one more to their liking. Pakistan perhaps?

Why should they adapt to your culture, why shouldn't you adapt to theirs?

Kudos for framing the issue so honestly. That is exactly the threat.

Presumably many Muslims and others came here for things that they liked about us. Why should we let a few turn us into a "New Iraq"? If you come to America, you come to be an American.

[sharkman]

I think people who can't adapt to our country's culture should find one more to their liking. Pakistan perhaps?

Why should they adapt to your culture, why shouldn't you adapt to theirs?

Because they are the ones who decided to live in a foreign country, that's why. Good grief, if a campaign was started to provide prayer rooms in libraries for Christians, separation of church and state would be the cry. How does this not cross that line?

[sharkman]

I don't know about U. of Michigan, but at my University, anyone who wants to start a "club" can do so and get money from the University for it. There are several Christian/Jewish clubs. Not to mention that students have to pay for athletes, scholarships and a variety of other programs. I'm not saying it's right, but I suppose if it's a big deal then people could always choose another school?

This is not starting another club. This is the State providing for religious rituals for one specific religion in a state run institution. Open your eyes.

[gc1765]

If you come to America, you come to be an American.

Because they are the ones who decided to live in a foreign country, that's why.

I assume you are both Native Americans (aboriginals)?

[kimmy]

I think people who can't adapt to our country's culture should find one more to their liking. Pakistan perhaps?

Why should they adapt to your culture, why shouldn't you adapt to theirs?

Because this sort of attitude starts us down a slippery slope towards Kimmy having to be covered neck to ankle to go out in public.

-k

[NovaScotian]

I don't know about U. of Michigan, but at my University, anyone who wants to start a "club" can do so and get money from the University for it. There are several Christian/Jewish clubs. Not to mention that students have to pay for athletes, scholarships and a variety of other programs. I'm not saying it's right, but I suppose if it's a big deal then people could always choose another school?

This is not starting another club. This is the State providing for religious rituals for one specific religion in a state run institution. Open your eyes.

My University had a church, it wasn't a religious school and I wasn't whipped into a rage.

[NovaScotian]

This timely New York Sun article (link) on the University of Michigan's squandering of public moneys (nominally raised from tuitions) to meet the special pleading needs of a small segment of its student body shows the extent to which we are pandering to a homophobic, militaristic, violent group of people.

First, one must doubt whether footbaths are used in the arid lands from which Islam sprang. How often did Muhamed get a footbath? I want to know. Equally to the point, why is one religious group being accomodated to the exclusion of others. Do Jews have arks, complete with Torahs, installed in university buildings. What about a rosary for Catholics?

Are we turning our secular, public universities, long dedicated to academic and personal freedoms, into feudal religious enclaves? Should we subcontract their administration to the Taliban?

One must doubt a lot of Christian traditions too, but thats just that they are, traditions. I have never saw one religious group preferred over another. Everyone gets along fine. I met some very nice Muslim students and I wouldn't describe them as homophobic, militaristic or violent.

Also, check out the UMich website(http://www.umich.edu/~religion/list.html) and you will see that there are services for almost EVERY religious group.

the local Islamic community started planning ways to raise the estimated $25,000 cost.

They were perfectly willing to pay for the baths themselves.

Edited August 1, 2007 by NovaScotian

[Guest American Woman]

This timely New York Sun article (link) on the University of Michigan's squandering of public moneys (nominally raised from tuitions) to meet the special pleading needs of a small segment of its student body shows the extent to which we are pandering to a homophobic, militaristic, violent group of people.

First, one must doubt whether footbaths are used in the arid lands from which Islam sprang. How often did Muhamed get a footbath? I want to know. Equally to the point, why is one religious group being accomodated to the exclusion of others. Do Jews have arks, complete with Torahs, installed in university buildings. What about a rosary for Catholics?

Are we turning our secular, public universities, long dedicated to academic and personal freedoms, into feudal religious enclaves? Should we subcontract their administration to the Taliban?

I wonder how the Gay Pride Chapter would react.

Excerpts below:

July 31, 2007 Edition > Section: National > Printer-Friendly Version

U. of Michigan Will Provide Muslim Footbaths

BY P.J. HUFFSTUTTER - Los Angeles Times

July 31, 2007

URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/59485

When Majed Afana needs to pray while attending classes at the University of Michigan at Dearborn, the 19-year-old Muslim usually will duck into the campus library's bathroom, strip off his shoes, and awkwardly strain to wash his feet in the sink.

Water often pools at his feet, he says, making it slippery to balance on one foot. Some of the sinks have started to pull away from the wall, in part from years of use by others like him — who, according to their faith, must clean their feet prior to praying five times a day. So when the school recently approved installing two footbaths in a pair of new unisex bathrooms, to accommodate the needs of both male and female Muslim students, the local Islamic community started planning ways to raise the estimated $25,000 cost.

But the university told them not to bother — it would pay for the footbaths.

"I think it's great," said Mr. Afana, a pre-med student at this commuter school, where about a reported 11% of the 8,700 students are Muslim. "What we've been doing all these years has been dangerous and can be a safety hazard."

The university says it's tapping student infrastructure fees for the unisex bathrooms, which will also have diaper-changing stations and facilities for mothers to nurse infants, because this is an issue of the school trying to make its bathrooms safer and improve its plumbing — not endorsing religion or promoting Islam.

And while the fees are part of the school's general fund, the money is paid by students, not taxpayers, and is often used for campus maintenance and general construction.

**snip**

The university says it's tapping student infrastructure fees for the unisex bathrooms, which will also have diaper-changing stations and facilities for mothers to nurse infants, because this is an issue of the school trying to make its bathrooms safer and improve its plumbing — not endorsing religion or promoting Islam.

That was my first thought before I even read that paragraph after reading this: "Water often pools at his feet, he says, making it slippery to balance on one foot. Some of the sinks have started to pull away from the wall, in part from years of use by others like him..." so installing the footbaths is saving on repair bills in the future and making the bathrooms better/safer for everyone; sounds like an accident just waiting to happen the way things are now. (Should students without babies be angry that they are installing diaper-changing facitilities?)

As a side note, U of M is known for its diversity and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Why this would send anyone into a frenzy is beyond me.

Edited August 1, 2007 by American Woman

[maldon_road]

I don't know about U. of Michigan, but at my University, anyone who wants to start a "club" can do so and get money from the University for it. There are several Christian/Jewish clubs. Not to mention that students have to pay for athletes, scholarships and a variety of other programs. I'm not saying it's right, but I suppose if it's a big deal then people could always choose another school?

This is not starting another club. This is the State providing for religious rituals for one specific religion in a state run institution. Open your eyes.

I agree. If they want footbaths they should pay for them.

[Guest American Woman]

If they want footbaths they should pay for them.

The university wants footbaths, for the reasons stated in the article.

[kuzadd]

The university says it's tapping student infrastructure fees for the unisex bathrooms, which will also have diaper-changing stations and facilities for mothers to nurse infants, because this is an issue of the school trying to make its bathrooms safer and improve its plumbing — not endorsing religion or promoting Islam.

That was my first thought before I even read that paragraph after reading this: "Water often pools at his feet, he says, making it slippery to balance on one foot. Some of the sinks have started to pull away from the wall, in part from years of use by others like him..." so installing the footbaths is saving on repair bills in the future and making the bathrooms better/safer for everyone; sounds like an accident just waiting to happen the way things are now. (Should students without babies be angry that they are installing diaper-changing facitilities?)

As a side note, U of M is known for its diversity and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Why this would send anyone into a frenzy is beyond me.

Why should we have diaper changing stations?

Why should we have facilities for nursing mother's

Why have handicapped parking?

Why have clubs for anyone as some other poster said?

All those things will send us down a slippery slope of "us" having to accomodate "them"??

I mean handicapped parking, means some of us can't park so close, to the shopping mall.

Nursing stations/diaper changing for mothers, means some space that should have been "ours" was alloted to a "special interest group."

I guess clubs should only be provided for the "accepted" ones.

This is as this poster said, alot of hulabaloo about nothing!

So they provide him with a safe place to wash his feet, rather then have him injure himself, and sue them for the injuries.

wow!

How "outrageous".

[cybercoma]

Presumably many Muslims and others came here for things that they liked about us. Why should we let a few turn us into a "New Iraq"? If you come to America, you come to be an American.

They're not turning you into anything. In this particular article, they just wanted to be able to wash their feet without breaking their neck.

I'd say the University shouldn't pander to religious pressures and spend tuition money in this way; however, how much more did it actually cost to install them and if 11% of the student population is Muslim, I'm sure their contributions have MORE than paid for it.

As much as I think religion is a crock, why shouldn't they be allowed to pray in their own way? And why isn't it the school's responsibility to make sure the environment is as safe as possible?

They're not harming anyone else and any suggestion otherwise is blatant bigotry. Your assertion that they come to be an "American" is equally of base, since religion has nothing to do with citizenship. If you feel anyone that comes to America should STOP practicing their religion, then I think it's only fair that you suggest EVERYONE in America stop practicing religion.

And that, I wouldn't have a problem with, but it's never going to happen that way.

[cybercoma]

So they provide him with a safe place to wash his feet, rather then have him injure himself, and sue them for the injuries.

This is exactly it. This is nothing more than insurance against lawsuits.

[jbg]

I assume you are both Native Americans (aboriginals)?

The relative ouster of the FN's occurred as a result of smallpox, and of the many large-scale movements of peoples common before the universal adoption of the nation-state. The natives were right to try to fight back. They lost.

We have a right to try to keep what we buiilt. We do not need to surrender to dhimmitude.

Why this (the footbaths) would send anyone into a frenzy is beyond me.

This is hardly a "frenzy".

And I'm confused. aren't many of the people supporting or not opposing footbaths the very same people who have problems with public Christmas displays, or the posting of the Ten Commandments in courthouses? Excuse my cognitive dissonance. (Note, I am not Christian).

Edited August 1, 2007 by jbg

[cybercoma]

Having the government govern by supposedly knowing the will of an unknowable unfalsifiable God, is not at all the same thing as giving people a safe place to pray. Christmas displays are beautiful. Believing that a virgin was impregnated and gave birth to the son of the above God is hilarious mythology at best. When those people try to make other people believe in such nonsense and demand unquestioning respect for such absurdity, that's when there is a problem.

[ScottSA]

Having the government govern by supposedly knowing the will of an unknowable unfalsifiable God, is not at all the same thing as giving people a safe place to pray. Christmas displays are beautiful. Believing that a virgin was impregnated and gave birth to the son of the above God is hilarious mythology at best. When those people try to make other people believe in such nonsense and demand unquestioning respect for such absurdity, that's when there is a problem.

You may not have noticed that we have a little problem in that department, although this particular brand of "hilarious mythology" is quite content to kill people instead of converting them.

[NovaScotian]

This is hardly a "frenzy".

And I'm confused. aren't many of the people supporting or not opposing footbaths the very same people who have problems with public Christmas displays, or the posting of the Ten Commandments in courthouses? Excuse my cognitive dissonance. (Note, I am not Christian).

These footpaths are out of the way in a bathroom. Not to mention there is no special ceremonial meaning to the baths themselves. They just make it easier for them to wash there feet before praying. The university also said it was a safety issue for both Muslim and non-Muslim students.

[marcinmoka]

Are we turning our secular, public universities, long dedicated to academic and personal freedoms, into feudal religious enclaves?

JBG, of course not. Well, that is not what you had let us to believe. According to all you other posts, Canada is the big bad multi cultural bogeyman, pandering to the desires of every minority group, while the U.S is an allusion to the ideal, a nation of integration and cultural homogeneity.

Islam Can Be Constructive and Not Violent, Where Multiculturalism Does Not Reign, Islam No Different Than Other Religion

And

It depends, however, on integration, as opposed to multiculturalism.

Maybe...just maybe, multiculturalism is but a term conjured up to appease a bitter nation, but in practicable terms, means nothing. Immigrants may or may not integrate (sad, but true) into their host society based on a multitude of other factors, but whether a nation officially deems itself "multicultural" or " integrational" means nothing.

France has a policy of assimilation, while Britain has a policy of multiculturalism. Ditto for the U.S and Canada. Yet, they still face the same problems. But to pass the buck and lay all your blame on one little noun is a childish oversimplification. I know you are far more capable of presenting serious argumentation, so why do you insist on this whole "Everything American is the BEST, and everything not American, especially Canadian is flawed by default". Is this superiority complex stemming from some sort of insecurity, giving you the need to assert, and reassert yourself even sans justification?

[ScottSA]

France has a policy of assimilation, while Britain has a policy of multiculturalism. Ditto for the U.S and Canada. Yet, they still face the same problems.

Hmmm...what does that tell us? Hmmm...

[Guest American Woman]

Why this (the footbaths) would send anyone into a frenzy is beyond me.

This is hardly a "frenzy".

Some of the responses to a couple of footbaths most definitely show that some are in a frenzy, starting with the initial post:

This timely New York Sun article on the University of Michigan's squandering of public moneys (nominally raised from tuitions) to meet the special pleading needs of a small segment of its student body shows the extent to which we are pandering to a homophobic, militaristic, violent group of people.

The Muslims at U of M are a "homophobic, militaristic, violent group of people?" Give me a break. That's getting into a frenzy about it.

Why should we let a few turn us into a "New Iraq"? If you come to America, you come to be an American.

I didn't realize one couldn't be American AND Muslim; and I sure didn't realize a couple of footbaths would turn us into another Iraq!

I think people who can't adapt to our country's culture should find one more to their liking. Pakistan perhaps?

I thought our country's culture was freedom of religion. So I'm wondering if everyone in America has to be Christian? Would that be adapting to our country's culture? What about athiets, Buddists, Jews -- do they all need to adapt to our culture too?

I can't believe this even made the news. That shows what a sorry state of affairs we are in right now.

And I'm confused. aren't many of the people supporting or not opposing footbaths the very same people who have problems with public Christmas displays, or the posting of the Ten Commandments in courthouses? Excuse my cognitive dissonance. (Note, I am not Christian).

What do Christmas displays and the Ten Commandments have to do with meeting a physical need, where safety has to be considered? Are you purposely ignoring WHY the footbaths were installed?

"What we've been doing all these years has been dangerous and can be a safety hazard."

This isn't about religion; it's about safety. The university clearly stated that. On the other hand, Christmas displays and posting the Ten Commandments are about religion.