new american empire death throws

[Guest American Woman]

....

I live within 50kms of the border and no, I will never, ever cross.

....

Why won't you ever visit the U.S.? Have you never been here?

Yes, many times in the early 1990's. My boyfriend and I would go across all the time. No problemo -- but that was then...today, your country has changed so that people are no longer wanting to take the chance on being "detained".

Your country is going down the tubes. Realize it. Try your hardest to FIX it. Although I think America's reputation around the world is so tarnished that no amount of polishingis going to change it.

Poor fools voted for the worst administration possible -- TWICE! I shake my head.

Talk to some real Americans (not the swaggerin', preachin', warrin', loudmouth minority) on the Democratic Underground. There are realistic people who KNOW how badly the USA is doing and are TRYING to do something about it.

America is now known as the terrorist of the world. That reputation will no go away any time soon. Just like Canada's reputation of being socialist Trudeau lovers will never leave us... you will (for many many years to come) be known as Bush warmongers.

First of all, "the country" didn't vote for Bush; the country is made up of people who voted for Bush and those who didn't. And for clarification purposes, Bush didn't even get the majority of the vote the first time around. But being an American, I can assure you that I talk to plenty of "real Americans." I'm glad you realize that some of us are trying to fix what is wrong with our country, but I hope you also realize that there is a lot good about it. As for how we are known around the world, I do get around a bit, and the United States and Americans are still recognized by many for the good that we do. Not everyone sees us all as 'one' and/or so shortsightedly.

[guyser]

...country, but I hope you also realize that there is a lot good about it. As for how we are known around the world, I do get around a bit, and the United States and Americans are still recognized by many for the good that we do. Not everyone sees us all as 'one' and/or so shortsightedly.

I never understand the hater . Cannot distinguish the people from the country. I may , or may not, like your govt but damn sure love going there and love the people.

Maybe a good thing Drea stays out. The less our friends get to know her the better off we all are with an attitude like that.

[betsy]

....

I live within 50kms of the border and no, I will never, ever cross.

....

Why won't you ever visit the U.S.? Have you never been here?

Yes, many times in the early 1990's. My boyfriend and I would go across all the time. No problemo -- but that was then...today, your country has changed so that people are no longer wanting "to take the chance on being detained".

So I understand you stopped going across to the US because you don't want to take the chance of getting "detained?"

You said "I will never, ever cross." Your reaction seems so extreme.

Is there any reason why you think there could be a chance that you would be detained?

Is your boyfriend a Muslim?

Edited July 19, 2007 by betsy

[betsy]

Talk to some real Americans (not the swaggerin', preachin', warrin', loudmouth minority) on the Democratic Underground.

Underground?

In war, that could mean a guerilla movement. During peacetime, it usually means "in-hiding." As in "going underground."

There are realistic people who KNOW how badly the USA is doing and are TRYING to do something about it.

Is that right?

Democratic Underground. Is that the name of this movement? They must believe they're at war?

Operating in the US?

And who is their enemy? Fellow-Americans? Civilians?

You know these people? Where they are?

Edited July 19, 2007 by betsy

[betsy]

Yes, many times in the early 1990's. My boyfriend and I would go across all the time. No problemo -- but that was then...today, your country has changed so that people are no longer wanting to take the chance on being "detained".

Nonsense....the USA was ranked #3 in the world as a tourist destination for 2004 (Canada wasn't even in the top 10), and that doesn't include the people crashing the border legally or illegally from Canada and Mexico for opportunity in "warmonger" America.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0198352.html

Frankly speaking, I'd feel safest touring the USA than any other countries in the world!

[guyser]

Talk to some real Americans (not the swaggerin', preachin', warrin', loudmouth minority) on the Democratic Underground. There are realistic people who KNOW how badly the USA is doing and are TRYING to do something about it.

Democratic Underground is one of the stupidest websites around. They have a mantra about everything ..."Blame Bush!"

Your remote goes on the TV..?.. blame bush, its raining..?..blame Bush.

Any contrasting opinion is immediately swarmed by yelling and accusations and then you are banned, nice free speech that one.

Ultra left that one is.No self respecting person should use that as a source.

[Guest American Woman]

...country, but I hope you also realize that there is a lot good about it. As for how we are known around the world, I do get around a bit, and the United States and Americans are still recognized by many for the good that we do. Not everyone sees us all as 'one' and/or so shortsightedly.

I never understand the hater . Cannot distinguish the people from the country. I may , or may not, like your govt but damn sure love going there and love the people.

Maybe a good thing Drea stays out. The less our friends get to know her the better off we all are with an attitude like that.

I don't understand that kind of reaction/judgement either. I'm not crazy about Harper, but it sure hasn't made me change my opinion of Canada and/or Canadians. I still love visiting your country and still think as highly as ever of Canadians. I don't support communisim, but I love visiting China and I love and respect the Chinese people.

To bring my point home, I'm going to quote Drea substituing "Muslims/Islam" for America and wonder what the reaction would be if I were to post the following to a Muslim:

'Your relgion is going down the tubes. Realize it. Try your hardest to FIX it. Although I think Islam's reputation around the world is so tarnished that no amount of polishing is going to change it.'

[kuzadd]

I agree completely with the premise the US as an empire is in it's death throes.

It is not anti-americanism it is simple fact.

The very fact that the US had to trump up the 'war on terror', to maintain relevance in the world is indicative of this.

The fact that the US runs roughshod, over weak, unarmed countries to make a show of it's relevance is also indicative of this.

The fact that the US is so desperate to control ME oil, to have the ability to TRY and control other countries and their economies (Europe and China) is indicative of the last gasp attempt to maintain relevancy in a world, in which it has become clear, to many American leaders, that the US is less and less relevant.

As Eurasia, China, and the EU, work towards a more practical, cooperative state of being, which they will and are, as the US knows, the US becomes increasingly isolated and irrelevant.

Therefore, the US , is at it's most dangerous, making it's last desperate grasp for power, it is failing.

[Guest American Woman]

I agree completely with the premise the US as an empire is in it's death throes.

It is not anti-americanism it is simple fact.

The very fact that the US had to trump up the 'war on terror', to maintain relevance in the world is indicative of this.

The fact that the US runs roughshod, over weak, unarmed countries to make a show of it's relevance is also indicative of this.

The fact that the US is so desperate to control ME oil, to have the ability to TRY and control other countries and their economies (Europe and China) is indicative of the last gasp attempt to maintain relevancy in a world, in which it has become clear, to many American leaders, that the US is less and less relevant.

As Eurasia, China, and the EU, work towards a more practical, cooperative state of being, which they will and are, as the US knows, the US becomes increasingly isolated and irrelevant.

Therefore, the US , is at it's most dangerous, making it's last desperate grasp for power, it is failing.

I must say, that was an interesting post. Unless we are an "empire," we are becoming isolated and irrelevant? I didn't realize a nation needed to be an empire to be relevant and not isolated. I think it's great that other nations are working towards becoming a stronger force, but I fail to see how you can think China is working towards a better state of being than the United States is. Have I missed something there? What has the government done for the people lately that would put them above the United States? What has it done to be a better world player?

I've listened to a lot of criticism of America and Americans in the past few years, and I've apologized for my country's actions where appropriate/necessary, but I'm growing weary of this kind of extreme criticism/judgement. The U.S. is making a last grasp to maintain relevancy in the world? Come on. That just makes me laugh.

[Guest American Woman]

Yes, many times in the early 1990's. My boyfriend and I would go across all the time. No problemo -- but that was then...today, your country has changed so that people are no longer wanting to take the chance on being "detained".

Nonsense....the USA was ranked #3 in the world as a tourist destination for 2004 (Canada wasn't even in the top 10), and that doesn't include the people crashing the border legally or illegally from Canada and Mexico for opportunity in "warmonger" America.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0198352.html

Frankly speaking, I'd feel safest touring the USA than any other countries in the world!

Canadians make up the largest percentage of our international visitors, and that number is going up, not down, along with the total number of international visitors to the States.

"Washington -- International travel to the United States will break records in 2007, marking a complete post-9/11 tourism recovery, U.S. Commerce Secretary Carlos M. Gutierrez predicts.

Travel to the United States following September 11, 2001, dropped 17 percent from a record high of 51.2 million visitors in 2000. But the country hosted 51.1 million international visitors in 2006, which constituted a 4 percent increase over the number of visitors in 2005. Gutierrez said he expects the trend to continue, and anticipates a 21 percent increase in the number of travelers to the United States over the next five years.

Canadian travelers currently make up the largest percentage of international visitors to the United States, and the number of people visiting from Canada increased by 8 percent between 2005 and 2006 to reach 16 million."

So the number of Canadians crossing into the U.S. has gone up, not down. Since over half of the Canadian population visited the U.S. in 2006, obviously not everyone shares Drea's concern.

[kuzadd]

I must say, that was an interesting post. Unless we are an "empire," we are becoming isolated and irrelevant? I didn't realize a nation needed to be an empire to be relevant and not isolated. I think it's great that other nations are working towards becoming a stronger force, but I fail to see how you can think China is working towards a better state of being than the United States is. Have I missed something there? What has the government done for the people lately that would put them above the United States? What has it done to be a better world player?

I've listened to a lot of criticism of America and Americans in the past few years, and I've apologized for my country's actions where appropriate/necessary, but I'm growing weary of this kind of extreme criticism/judgement. The U.S. is making a last grasp to maintain relevancy in the world? Come on. That just makes me laugh.

It shouldn't make you laugh, I couldn't understand why it would.

Look at the US trumping up the 'war on terror", to use as a guise to justify there relevancy, it is pathetic.

The disruption that the US is continuing to cause in the ME, is showing up in the form of increased resentment and hostility throughout Europe.

Europe will get sick of this nonsense. Europe will work out it's issues with the Arab world. Thereby solving US interference.

Russia will happily supply Europe with oil and natural gas.

China is very quickly becoming the biggest economy in the world, thanks in no small part to US capitalist class.(already in 3rd place)

never mind India!

America sits isolated and irrelevant across the ocean.

Edited July 20, 2007 by kuzadd

[Guest American Woman]

America sits isolated and irrelevant across the ocean.

[kuzadd]

America sits isolated and irrelevant across the ocean.

Unfortunate attitude.

[Drea]

Kuzad, that attitude is prevelant among many Americans. They believe their country is the best on earth no matter what they have done. It's simply tunnel vision. They have been looking at themselves in the mirror for so long that they CAN'T look outward.

America is the most hated country on earth, thanks to the Bush Administration.

Good Americans (like those on the Democratic Underground) have an uphill battle and I feel for them.

The Democratic Underground exists because it is a sin in the USA to be liberal, it is a sin to be anti-war, anti-Bush. But this is changing. Maybe, just maybe once they have a real government again and have gotten rid of the Patriot Act, gotten rid of Homeland Security, maybe I will go for a visit.

[bush_cheney2004]

Good Americans (like those on the Democratic Underground) have an uphill battle and I feel for them.

The Democratic Underground exists because it is a sin in the USA to be liberal, it is a sin to be anti-war, anti-Bush. But this is changing. Maybe, just maybe once they have a real government again and have gotten rid of the Patriot Act, gotten rid of Homeland Security, maybe I will go for a visit.

This very post gives evidence why America will be just fine. There is plenty of dissent to be had without censorship or hate speech laws. What was the excuse before 2001, and what will be the excuse after President Bush is long gone?

There are 300 million Americans and they come in all political stripes. Many came from around the world, including Canada, and they continue to come.....walking, swimming, flying, and dying to get into wicked America.

So please, continue to hate America if you wish and stay home. There are 100 people ready to take your place in line.

[betsy]

America sits isolated and irrelevant across the ocean.

I know.

Ask her to expand on that. Better yet, to give something credible to back it up.

Just fyi, you are debating with someone who put up a good fight trying to convince the board that Osama Bin Laden was not a religious person. Wanting us to take her word for it.

Edited July 20, 2007 by betsy

[betsy]

Good Americans (like those on the Democratic Underground) have an uphill battle and I feel for them.

The Democratic Underground exists because it is a sin in the USA to be liberal, it is a sin to be anti-war, anti-Bush. But this is changing. Maybe, just maybe once they have a real government again and have gotten rid of the Patriot Act, gotten rid of Homeland Security, maybe I will go for a visit.

This very post gives evidence why America will be just fine.

And will continue to be so.

And from the description of this said Democratic Underground - what an appropriate name indeed!

It looks like that's where it belongs. Under the ground.

[Drea]

Ol' Betsy... she just LOVES the Bush Republicans! LOL

It is good forum. Many (probably millions) of good Americans voicing their opinions and trying to change the course of America.

Good luck to them all.

Check it out -- Just type Democratic Underground in your search engine. Go ahead Betsy... you won't go to hell for reading it.. me and sky daddy PROMISE! LOL (Oh, better ask your husband if it's ok with him though -- I wouldn't want you to get a smack upside the head for reading something you weren't supposed to!)

Edited July 20, 2007 by Drea

[Leafless]

Check it out -- Just type Democratic Underground in your search engine.

I checked it out and sounds like: " A place for democrats and liberals with closed minds. It has 70,000 members, yet they all sound the same. The basic message is "fuck bush, fuck republicans, fuck Howard Dean, fuck anyone with a differing opinion, oh god, the world is going to end."

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?...tic+Underground

[Drea]

Check it out -- Just type Democratic Underground in your search engine.

I checked it out and sounds like: " A place for democrats and liberals with closed minds. It has 70,000 members, yet they all sound the same. The basic message is "fuck bush, fuck republicans, fuck Howard Dean, fuck anyone with a differing opinion, oh god, the world is going to end."

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?...tic+Underground

You did not "check it out"

Here is the real link:

Democratic Underground

How can you NOT be glad that good American people are questioning their government? Is there something wrong with questioning how one's government is conducting itself? Do you not EVER question anything? Do you swallow everything you are told? Even when you KNOW you have been lied to numerous times? Sheesh.

[jefferiah]

Certainly not Drea. Questioning is a good thing. I have not checked out the site, so I dont know much about it really. But are the views of the questioners always correct? Is Bush always wrong? And by what standard are you judging that people who frequent this website are the good Americans?

[Drea]

...are the views of the questioners always correct?

No of course not. There are nuts of all stripes. But the very act of questioning is a good thing.

Is Bush always wrong?

So far I have yet to see one instance where his administration is correct.

And by what standard are you judging that people who frequent this website are the good Americans?

"Good" people question their gov't when they believe it is wrong. "Bad" people swallow whatever they are told without question.

Perhaps the words "good" and "bad" are not appropriate.... as the "followers" are not necessarily "bad", perhaps they are just lazy or complacent or even brainwashed by the propaganda. The questioners are not necessarily "good" either. Perhaps some of them just want to stir up sh*t.

IMO it is always better to question and then accept than it is to simply accept without question.

If I have questioned the Canadian govt am I to be considered anti-Canadian? No, because in Canada, we've always complained about the govt LOL.

Then why do we call those who question the American government anti-American?

Edited July 20, 2007 by Drea

[kuzadd]

Check it out -- Just type Democratic Underground in your search engine.

I checked it out and sounds like: " A place for democrats and liberals with closed minds. It has 70,000 members, yet they all sound the same. The basic message is "fuck bush, fuck republicans, fuck Howard Dean, fuck anyone with a differing opinion, oh god, the world is going to end."

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?...tic+Underground

You did not "check it out"

Here is the real link:

Democratic Underground

How can you NOT be glad that good American people are questioning their government? Is there something wrong with questioning how one's government is conducting itself? Do you not EVER question anything? Do you swallow everything you are told? Even when you KNOW you have been lied to numerous times? Sheesh.

This is a multiple response Drea:

You may find this interview very interesting an economist:

http://www.gunsandbutter.net/archives.php?page=3

Hit the Listen Now button and listen to this interview as follows

America: Host or Parasite?

Interview with financial economist and historian, Dr. Michael Hudson. Dr. Hudson is President of The Institute for the Study of Long-Term Economic Trend, a Wall Street Financial Analyst, Distinguished Research Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri, Kansas City and author of "Super-Imperialism: The Economic Strategy of American Empire". We discuss the US balance of payments trade deficit which creates US credit to finance the US national debt and war abroad; Russian economic shock therapy as the final stage of the cold war; the real estate bubble; permanent war and the inevitable collapse of the current US dominated global economic system. Visit his website at www.michael-hudson.com.

Betsy and American woman, you would also benefit greatly from these interesting perspectives.

The grab his book!

Then while your at it, another book I just finished, it is excellent, written in 2002, translated in 2003.

I cannot recommend this book highly enough.

After the Empire: The Breakdown of the American Order (Hardcover)

a review here

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/stor...1143265,00.html

So far, he is quite accurate, having the value of hindsight.

[kuzadd]

America sits isolated and irrelevant across the ocean.

I know.

Ask her to expand on that. Better yet, to give something credible to back it up.

Just fyi, you are debating with someone who put up a good fight trying to convince the board that Osama Bin Laden was not a religious person. Wanting us to take her word for it.

Oh, your funny betsy, you see, I know when and whom to waste my time with.

I have expanded on many topics with you, but, you see, I don't get my information from the bible, or preached to me at church, I read and educate myself.

While some choose otherwise.

Edited July 20, 2007 by kuzadd

[betsy]

Ol' Betsy... she just LOVES the Bush Republicans! LOL

It is good forum. Many (probably millions) of good Americans voicing their opinions and trying to change the course of America.

Check it out -- Just type Democratic Underground in your search engine. Go ahead Betsy... you won't go to hell for reading it.. me and sky daddy PROMISE! LOL

I was just about to click on that link you gave, Drea...lulled by your skillful coaxing...like the devil's concubine beguiling....but then, I read this next line.

(Oh, better ask your husband if it's ok with him though -- I wouldn't want you to get a smack upside the head for reading something you weren't supposed to!)

That was a douse of cold water!

Wait a minute, I thought. This feminist line rings a bell!

Ah yes! Drea! The confused one!

The great Amazon warrior fighting for women's equality, that she even claims to see terrorists as her moral equal.

The super-heroine! Quick to the rescue! Dependable! This self-proclaimed protector of Islam and every Muslim men there is.

This feminist has just most recently given a few words of wisdom. All ye listen well...

Like I said, the older fellow could have been angry at the boys for pucking white girls... 'cause we all know white girls puck.

Are we supposed to take Drea seriously? Geesh, sounds like there's a civil war going in her head. Half her brains fighting the other half! And both are losing!

Edited July 20, 2007 by betsy