cybercoma Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy -- you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word ''elephant'' includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire?So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power. All the people I write e-mails to often are still stuck at this searching stage. The atheism part is easy. But, this ''This I Believe'' thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, ''This I believe: I believe there is no God.'' Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day. Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around. Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, ''I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith.'' That's just a long-winded religious way to say, ''shut up,'' or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, ''How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do.'' So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something. Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future. Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have. http://thisibelieve.org/dsp_ShowEssay.php?...ssays=25&uid=34 Funny and very spot on about the way atheism enriches his life. Quote
ScottSA Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 I'll wager a dollar he doesn't die an atheist, and if he does he's in for a big surprise. Quote
jester Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 I'll wager a dollar he doesn't die an atheist, and if he does he's in for a big surprise. Or alternatively everyone who believes in a ?god is in for a real disapoinment on their death bed, either there is no god or even worse they have been following the wrong one....... Quote
margrace Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 What is this God that we either are supposed to believe in or not. Is he that fellow up there in the white nightgown or is he everything you see or cannot see. Is it the Universe? Where does the good and caring come from that we see in some people? What or who are the evil ones? Can anyone explain this? Quote
stignasty Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 Jell-O mmmmmmmmm, Jell-O........ Quote "It may not be true, but it's legendary that if you're like all Americans, you know almost nothing except for your own country. Which makes you probably knowledgeable about one more country than most Canadians." - Stephen Harper
daniel Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 Is it so important that an omnipotent, omniscient GOD to be so lacking in confidence he would rather just have you believe in him than for you to just behave morally? Surely an omniscient GOD can see through any deception so what difference does it really make? (Dawkins) Perhaps GOD is simply the Theory of Everything (which physicists haven't fully completed). Quote
Drea Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 I'll wager a dollar he doesn't die an atheist, and if he does he's in for a big surprise. And you know this..... how again? Have you ever met a person who has come back? Don't give me those "near death experiences" those are just your brain's neurons dieing off. My Mom always said "if there is anything beyond life I will somehow let you know". So far 10 years have passed since she died and not a word. Not a billowing curtain, not a ghostly chill or shadow, nothin. I'm still waitin'... Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
jazzer Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 Don't give me those "near death experiences" those are just your brain's neurons dieing off. Interesting observation, however the bulk of NDE contain the following: A sense of being dead. An out-of-body experience. A sensation of floating above one's body and seeing the surrounding area. Pleasant feelings, calmness. A sense of overwhelming love and peace. A sensation of moving upwards through a tunnel or narrow passageway. Meeting deceased relatives or spiritual figures. Encountering a being of light, or a light (possibly a religious or divine figure). Being given a life review. Reaching a border or boundary. A feeling of being returned to the body, often accompanied by a reluctance. So how is it that these are common to most NDEs? And if it is just neurons dying off, how come no brain damage seems to take place? Science can't answer these questions and so they try to come up with the neuron dying and oxygen deprevation scenarios, none of which have been conclusively proven. Quote
White Doors Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 I believe that people can believe whatever they want and have no obsession in anyone else seeing reality the way that I do. And I only expect the same courtesy returned. Quote Those Dern Rednecks done outfoxed the left wing again.~blueblood~
noahbody Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 Science can't answer these questions and so they try to come up with the neuron dying and oxygen deprevation scenarios, none of which have been conclusively proven. The near death experience concept relies on the body having a spirit. If you want to know if this is true, visit a hospital and observe a patient who's oxygen level is being slowly deprived. You'll observe the personality of the patient changes, drastically, to the point the 'spirit' of the person you knew, no longer exists. Edited for typo, me bad Quote
ScottSA Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 What is this God that we either are supposed to believe in or not. Is he that fellow up there in the white nightgown or is he everything you see or cannot see. Is it the Universe? Where does the good and caring come from that we see in some people? What or who are the evil ones? Can anyone explain this? Of course I can't explain it. What if, by some odd chance, we aren't as smart as some of us seem to think we are, and it's incomprehensible to us? Just think about it for a moment...if you, as most people do, whether atheist or religious...believe that there are life forms beyond this world, is it a huge leap to imagine a race or species more intelligent than us? What about a lot more intelligent than us? Is it inconceivable that they might understand things we can't even begin to fathom? If you admit that this is possible, you must also concede that if God exists, He is well beyond our ken. The arrogant and slavish insistence by some that because our minds and present state of science can't comprehend something it must therefore not exist is so incredible dumb...'dumb' is the only word I can find...that it's almost funny. I don't, unlike some people, claim that this or that God is the "TRVE" God. How the hell do I know? God may very well be something completely apart from our silly attempts to conceive of Him. Mocking an old man in a nightgown really only underscores our inability to understand what God is...you're really only mocking humanity by doing so, not God. There are reams of evidence of life after death, and the presence of meaning in the universe. This goes a bit deeper than the sophomoric atheistic notion that God is a product of thin air and some need to believe in something, or paperback books about near death experiences. Anyone who trots out that pig and paints lipstick on it is showing off their own lack of depth rather than making any sort of viable point. The fact that a brain has certain behaviours under certain circumstances has nothing whatsoever to do with the spirit, it has to do with the hardwiring of the spirit's vehicle. Anyway, I wish that the atheists hereabouts would do a bit more research and think just a tad deeper before flippantly displaying their glaring idiocy. Quote
ScottSA Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 Science can't answer these questions and so they try to come up with the neuron dying and oxygen deprevation scenarios, none of which have been conclusively proven. The near death experience concept relies on the body having a spirit. If you want to know if this is true, visit a hospital and observe a patient who's oxogen level is being slowly deprived. You'll observe the personality of the patient changes, drastically, to the point the 'spirit' of the person you knew, no longer exists. Utter nonsense. You're simply making up a false premise and jamming a conclusion into it. The spirit, by definition, has nothing to do with the brain. Quote
noahbody Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 Science can't answer these questions and so they try to come up with the neuron dying and oxygen deprevation scenarios, none of which have been conclusively proven. The near death experience concept relies on the body having a spirit. If you want to know if this is true, visit a hospital and observe a patient who's oxygen level is being slowly deprived. You'll observe the personality of the patient changes, drastically, to the point the 'spirit' of the person you knew, no longer exists. Utter nonsense. You're simply making up a false premise and jamming a conclusion into it. The spirit, by definition, has nothing to do with the brain. Actually no, I'm not making up a false premise. I'm speaking from witnessing my father 'change' next to death due to pnemonia, then, watching his personality return as antibiotics enabled him to breathe properly. The spirit has everything to do with the identity of a person. Identity will change with a slow deprival of oxygen. A spirit, if true to its definition, would not require oxygen to exist and would not change if oxygen were to be deprived. Quote
gc1765 Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 Just think about it for a moment...if you, as most people do, whether atheist or religious...believe that there are life forms beyond this world, is it a huge leap to imagine a race or species more intelligent than us? What about a lot more intelligent than us? Is it inconceivable that they might understand things we can't even begin to fathom? If you admit that this is possible, you must also concede that if God exists, He is well beyond our ken. The arrogant and slavish insistence by some that because our minds and present state of science can't comprehend something it must therefore not exist is so incredible dumb...'dumb' is the only word I can find...that it's almost funny. Many theists don't believe that a life form as intelligent as human beings could have evolved. I'd like to know, then, how a species "a lot more intelligent than us" could have evolved. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
M.Dancer Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 Just think about it for a moment...if you, as most people do, whether atheist or religious...believe that there are life forms beyond this world, is it a huge leap to imagine a race or species more intelligent than us? What about a lot more intelligent than us? Is it inconceivable that they might understand things we can't even begin to fathom? If you admit that this is possible, you must also concede that if God exists, He is well beyond our ken. The arrogant and slavish insistence by some that because our minds and present state of science can't comprehend something it must therefore not exist is so incredible dumb...'dumb' is the only word I can find...that it's almost funny. Many theists don't believe that a life form as intelligent as human beings could have evolved. I'd like to know, then, how a species "a lot more intelligent than us" could have evolved. I wouldn't know about may theists....But CS Lewis had his musings about life beyond our planet. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
NovaScotian Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 Any God that sends people to hell for not believing in him/her/it is a God that I want no part of. Whether a person is atheist, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, whatever, it should not matter as long as they are a decent human being. Quote
jazzer Posted June 28, 2007 Report Posted June 28, 2007 Science can't answer these questions and so they try to come up with the neuron dying and oxygen deprevation scenarios, none of which have been conclusively proven. The near death experience concept relies on the body having a spirit. If you want to know if this is true, visit a hospital and observe a patient who's oxygen level is being slowly deprived. You'll observe the personality of the patient changes, drastically, to the point the 'spirit' of the person you knew, no longer exists. Edited for typo, me bad That might be the case for oxygen deprivatiaon, but I witnessed my parents deaths, and they were nothing but peaceful. I don't know if they live on, but they weren't fighting at the end. Quote
ScottSA Posted June 29, 2007 Report Posted June 29, 2007 Science can't answer these questions and so they try to come up with the neuron dying and oxygen deprevation scenarios, none of which have been conclusively proven. The near death experience concept relies on the body having a spirit. If you want to know if this is true, visit a hospital and observe a patient who's oxygen level is being slowly deprived. You'll observe the personality of the patient changes, drastically, to the point the 'spirit' of the person you knew, no longer exists. Utter nonsense. You're simply making up a false premise and jamming a conclusion into it. The spirit, by definition, has nothing to do with the brain. Actually no, I'm not making up a false premise. I'm speaking from witnessing my father 'change' next to death due to pnemonia, then, watching his personality return as antibiotics enabled him to breathe properly. The spirit has everything to do with the identity of a person. Identity will change with a slow deprival of oxygen. A spirit, if true to its definition, would not require oxygen to exist and would not change if oxygen were to be deprived. You're arbitrarly equating spirit with personality and "identity." Why? On what grounds? Quote
ScottSA Posted June 29, 2007 Report Posted June 29, 2007 Just think about it for a moment...if you, as most people do, whether atheist or religious...believe that there are life forms beyond this world, is it a huge leap to imagine a race or species more intelligent than us? What about a lot more intelligent than us? Is it inconceivable that they might understand things we can't even begin to fathom? If you admit that this is possible, you must also concede that if God exists, He is well beyond our ken. The arrogant and slavish insistence by some that because our minds and present state of science can't comprehend something it must therefore not exist is so incredible dumb...'dumb' is the only word I can find...that it's almost funny. Many theists don't believe that a life form as intelligent as human beings could have evolved. I'd like to know, then, how a species "a lot more intelligent than us" could have evolved. I'm not even sure I get the purpose of this question. Obviously if one believed in creation and extraterrestrial life simultaneously, one would believe that both life forms were created regardless of their relative intelligences. Was that a serious question? Quote
gc1765 Posted June 29, 2007 Report Posted June 29, 2007 I'm not even sure I get the purpose of this question. Obviously if one believed in creation and extraterrestrial life simultaneously, one would believe that both life forms were created regardless of their relative intelligences. Was that a serious question? Who created these life forms, and where did this creator come from? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
ScottSA Posted June 29, 2007 Report Posted June 29, 2007 I'm not even sure I get the purpose of this question. Obviously if one believed in creation and extraterrestrial life simultaneously, one would believe that both life forms were created regardless of their relative intelligences. Was that a serious question? Who created these life forms, and where did this creator come from? That's two questions, the answer to the first of which is self-evident from the second, and the second is the usual tautology. Quote
NovaScotian Posted June 29, 2007 Report Posted June 29, 2007 Speaking of creating life..... Scientists in the US say they have taken a major step towards producing life from scratch in the laboratory. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6251910.stm It is actually quite a scary prospect. Quote
gc1765 Posted June 29, 2007 Report Posted June 29, 2007 That's two questions, the answer to the first of which is self-evident from the second, and the second is the usual tautology. In other words, you don't have an answer to the second question? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
ScottSA Posted June 29, 2007 Report Posted June 29, 2007 That's two questions, the answer to the first of which is self-evident from the second, and the second is the usual tautology. In other words, you don't have an answer to the second question? Of course I don't have an answer to the question. Duh. Who do you think I am, God? But the fact that I don't know something doesn't mean there isn't an answer. To argue as an atheist that unless someone can find the creator of the creator, the creator doesn't exist always struck me as one of the most foolish tautologies in existence. It's like demanding to know where the universe ends, and claiming that if the answer isn't forthcoming, the universe must not exist. Quote
sharkman Posted June 29, 2007 Report Posted June 29, 2007 Another there is no God thread. Already? It seems to me if it was the self evident truth that No God Truthies insist it is, they would have no need to keep reminding themselves of it. Kind of like we already know that Christmas is in December this year. Carry on though. Quote
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