Canada's First Chinese Canadian Political Party

[geoffrey]

One of the most misleading lines in arguing in support of an ideology or what not is "they'll never have enough support for their cause."

That's a dangerous way of thinking. Do you think at the time of the Beer hall Putsche that Mr. H had enough support to lead a revolution? Oh don't worry about them, they'll never have enough support.

It doesn't take alot of votes to win in Canada.

If any party defines itself on a racial basis with aims of getting represenation in any legislature, I'm concerned.

[capricorn]

Even if the NAP didn't win a single seat, it will still receive $1.75 per vote. So in effect taxpayers would be funding parties founded along ethnic and/or religious lines. For example, there are around 1 million Muslims in Canada. If they formed a Muslim party, chances are the majority of them would vote for that party. At $1.75 times the number of votes, that would provide funds to intensify organizing efforts in anticipation of the next election.

http://www.elections.ca/content.asp?sectio...&textonly=false

[gc1765]

If any party defines itself on a racial basis with aims of getting represenation in any legislature, I'm concerned.

I don't think they have defined themselves on a racial basis. They have defined themselves as a party of immigrants, which is no different than other single issue parties like the marijuana party or the bloc quebecois. I'd like to see their platform, but I doubt they are advocating for any racist policies.

[gc1765]

Even if the NAP didn't win a single seat, it will still receive $1.75 per vote. So in effect taxpayers would be funding parties founded along ethnic and/or religious lines. For example, there are around 1 million Muslims in Canada. If they formed a Muslim party, chances are the majority of them would vote for that party. At $1.75 times the number of votes, that would provide funds to intensify organizing efforts in anticipation of the next election.

http://www.elections.ca/content.asp?sectio...&textonly=false

The thing is, each of those voters also pays taxes. If 1 million Muslims all pay taxes, and then vote for a Muslim party in order to get their $1.75, all they are doing is getting their own money back. It is not you or I that would be funding these parties, it would be the people who vote for them.

[jbg]

The thing is, each of those voters also pays taxes. If 1 million Muslims all pay taxes, and then vote for a Muslim party in order to get their $1.75, all they are doing is getting their own money back. It is not you or I that would be funding these parties, it would be the people who vote for them.

Excuse my ignorance but isn't there some threshold for "party status" before one receives per vote subsidies?

[xul]

One of the most misleading lines in arguing in support of an ideology or what not is "they'll never have enough support for their cause."

To the command officer of Canadian troop in Afghanistan, estimating how many percent support the millitants have from Afghanistani is an importment thing to make his decision. If his judgement was that if a Afghanistani is a militant, all Afghanistani are militants, the works would become easy. He only need to order his men to extinct every one they met in that country and then he can triumph in two or four weeks, not need to 2009....

If number or percentage had not significance, people would deduce out many absurd things. When I read a tragic news story in Thestar about a white man slaughtered his wife in Toronto, I could deduce that whole of husbands lived here have this hobby. When a British man read that a America plane bombed a British tank, he would deduce that USAF wants to destroy all British army. When a beaver made a dam and flooded a farmer's barn, Canadian would deduce that all beaver species is subverting humanbeing so it need to be extinct....this line of thought is absolutely wrong.

That's a dangerous way of thinking. Do you think at the time of the Beer hall Putsche that Mr. H had enough support to lead a revolution? Oh don't worry about them, they'll never have enough support.

If Mr.H was a Jew, the minority of Germany, he could not lead any revolution to eliminate Teuton from Germany.

At that time, people all over the world was suffering for the Great Depression. People lived in Germany were the most suffering because they need to pay for their defeat in World War I. Hitler used this situation and came into power by misleading the majority of German people to condemn Jew being responsible for their suffer.

Hitler did not take power on horseback. He was elected by the majority of German people who were misled to believe the minority Jew would harm their benefit so they need Hitler and his Nazi to protect them . Finally, they really be deprived, not only their proceeds but also their liberty. But Jew didn't do these, Hitler did.

It doesn't take alot of votes to win in Canada.

If any party defines itself on a racial basis with aims of getting represenation in any legislature, I'm concerned.

Why are you concerned with that? If Mr.Chen advocates any racialism, the right way is to sent him to a court. But I must confess,I don't really know what Mr.Chen is. I have not had one chance to open the link successfully yet.

The exist of Hitler is not a terrible thing. People who were misled to believe his fairy tale and hateful doctrine are really a terrible thing.

[capricorn]

Even if the NAP didn't win a single seat, it will still receive $1.75 per vote. So in effect taxpayers would be funding parties founded along ethnic and/or religious lines. For example, there are around 1 million Muslims in Canada. If they formed a Muslim party, chances are the majority of them would vote for that party. At $1.75 times the number of votes, that would provide funds to intensify organizing efforts in anticipation of the next election.

http://www.elections.ca/content.asp?sectio...&textonly=false

The thing is, each of those voters also pays taxes. If 1 million Muslims all pay taxes, and then vote for a Muslim party in order to get their $1.75, all they are doing is getting their own money back. It is not you or I that would be funding these parties, it would be the people who vote for them.

That's a good point. I looked at it from two perspectives.

Unemployed voters don't pay income tax. The national unemployment rate is 6.1%.

http://www.statcan.ca/english/Subjects/Labour/LFS/lfs-en.htm

Little data is readily available on unemployment rates among Canadian Muslims. As of 2001, the unemployment rate for Muslim women was 16.6%, compared to all women at 7.2% for the same period.

http://www.ccmw.com/Press%20Release/e_Musl...0Perception.htm

I could not find anything on unemployment rates of Canadian Muslim men. In Britain, the unemployment rate for this group was 16% in 2006. It's probably not far off from the rate found in Canada.

http://britishaffairs.suite101.com/blog.cf...n_in_statistics

On the other hand, if we consider taxes paid on consumer goods, then yes, it can be said that they are merely getting back the money they paid through those taxes.

No matter, I was quite surprised at the high rate of unemployment of Canadian Muslims.

Nothing that I am aware of in our present system prevents any group, based on any concept, from forming a political party. I suppose we'll start worrying when it gets us into trouble.

[mikedavid00]

"But he later said the NAP wasn't a Chinese Canadian party and he intended to recruit immigrants from all ethnic groups. "However, first we have to do a good job to show people that they should join us."

When asked how the party could attract non-Chinese members if its website was all in Chinese, Chen said the English version was in the making."

Imagine the horror if this were an an Anglo saxon party only.

How is this a Chinese-only party?

"On the party's website, it says:

For so many years that we haven't had a party of our own; for too long that no parties would fight for the interests and rights of Chinese Canadians. Being part of a newer generation of immigrants, we want to work hard for the interests of all Chinese Canadians. We want to tell the world that the Chinese people are smart, united, hardworking and respectable.

"

They are mincing their words and contradicting themselves throught their site and interviews. The party is not for everyone, it's an Asian party. That's why the color of the party is YELLOW.

[mikedavid00]

One of the most misleading lines in arguing in support of an ideology or what not is "they'll never have enough support for their cause."

To the command officer of Canadian troop in Afghanistan, estimating how many percent support the millitants have from Afghanistani is an importment thing to make his decision. If his judgement was that if a Afghanistani is a militant, all Afghanistani are militants, the works would become easy. He only need to order his men to extinct every one they met in that country and then he can triumph in two or four weeks, not need to 2009....

If number or percentage had not significance, people would deduce out many absurd things. When I read a tragic news story in Thestar about a white man slaughtered his wife in Toronto, I could deduce that whole of husbands lived here have this hobby. When a British man read that a America plane bombed a British tank, he would deduce that USAF wants to destroy all British army. When a beaver made a dam and flooded a farmer's barn, Canadian would deduce that all beaver species is subverting humanbeing so it need to be extinct....this line of thought is absolutely wrong.

That's a dangerous way of thinking. Do you think at the time of the Beer hall Putsche that Mr. H had enough support to lead a revolution? Oh don't worry about them, they'll never have enough support.

If Mr.H was a Jew, the minority of Germany, he could not lead any revolution to eliminate Teuton from Germany.

At that time, people all over the world was suffering for the Great Depression. People lived in Germany were the most suffering because they need to pay for their defeat in World War I. Hitler used this situation and came into power by misleading the majority of German people to condemn Jew being responsible for their suffer.

Hitler did not take power on horseback. He was elected by the majority of German people who were misled to believe the minority Jew would harm their benefit so they need Hitler and his Nazi to protect them . Finally, they really be deprived, not only their proceeds but also their liberty. But Jew didn't do these, Hitler did.

It doesn't take alot of votes to win in Canada.

If any party defines itself on a racial basis with aims of getting represenation in any legislature, I'm concerned.

Why are you concerned with that? If Mr.Chen advocates any racialism, the right way is to sent him to a court. But I must confess,I don't really know what Mr.Chen is. I have not had one chance to open the link successfully yet.

The exist of Hitler is not a terrible thing. People who were misled to believe his fairy tale and hateful doctrine are really a terrible thing.

I'm goign to say something very unfriendly but honest. I have no clue what you are talking about - your writing, your way of thinking, etc. I just don't get it.

When you come to Canada, you will not be able to function in many of our white-collar jobs that you so desire or feel intitled to. Yes, your English is good compared to your fellows immigrating with you from China, but it is simply not good enough.

This is the reason why you will not find work (beside the fact that we don't have jobs). Not because of your color, not because of you customs, but becuase you don't have basic communication skills at a business level and you do not think the way we do.

Our country, to be frank, simply does not need you here at all. You are working in a chinese research firm. You will most likely NOT find this job in Canada and will struggle to make ends meet. You will quickly learn how to play our system and take advantage of the various programs we offer. This is NOT on behalf of the Canadian peoples will, but our politicians know that your community provides a massive voting bloc of support to keep them elected. Thus you keep getting let into Canada.

This is not just you, but all the thousands of people from China that come here each month.

Ultimately, you will be coming here to join your community and better your life. Canada does NOT have jobs you in your field and there are 100's like youself looking for work.

Again, in Canada, there is a 99% chance that you will NOT be a professional, you will not find employment, and you will not be in the place you feel you deserve.

But you already know this..

It begs the question... why come?

[ScottSA]

For the issue of accommodation and integration, I suggest some people here perhapes might chang their way of thought. If you believe BEING A CANADIAN IS NOT A BAD THING, you should have confidence of that most people in the world also have the willing to pursue a good thing. Though time perhaps be needed.

This is one of the reasons why there is a growing anti-immigration backlash. It is a priveledge for you to come here, not a right. The onus is not upon us to change our ways, it is on you to agree to live within them. You have the choice to accept or decline our customs, just as we have the right to refuse you entry if we so choose. We don't have to change. You do.

As for race-based parties, you come from one of the most proudly racist countries in the world. The predominant Han Chinese even look down on such other ethnic Chinese groups as have managed to survive the scourges of history, so you are really in no position to tell us how harmless race-based parties are. The morality of the thing doesn't hinge on how much support the party may or may not have...it doesn't become "ok" just because its support base is low, but bad if its support is high. It is bad because it is bad, not for any other reason.

[gc1765]

"On the party's website, it says:

For so many years that we haven't had a party of our own; for too long that no parties would fight for the interests and rights of Chinese Canadians. Being part of a newer generation of immigrants, we want to work hard for the interests of all Chinese Canadians. We want to tell the world that the Chinese people are smart, united, hardworking and respectable.

"

They are mincing their words and contradicting themselves throught their site and interviews. The party is not for everyone, it's an Asian party. That's why the color of the party is YELLOW.

Also on the party's website:

"Today I want to talk more specifically about how my new government will address the concerns of hard-working immigrants and new Canadians"

"Hard-working immigrants and new Canadians need a new government – a government that shares your values, a government that shares your priorities."

"New Canadians will be a critical part of making the 21st century our greatest one yet. New Canadians deserve a federal government that truly respects your efforts and hard work, understands your values, and never takes you for granted"

"On January 23rd, stand up for accountability, stand up for new Canadians, stand up for Canada."

Ooops, wrong party. That was from the Conservative Website

I guess that means the Conservatives are also an immigrant-only party??

[ScottSA]

"On the party's website, it says:

For so many years that we haven't had a party of our own; for too long that no parties would fight for the interests and rights of Chinese Canadians. Being part of a newer generation of immigrants, we want to work hard for the interests of all Chinese Canadians. We want to tell the world that the Chinese people are smart, united, hardworking and respectable.

"

They are mincing their words and contradicting themselves throught their site and interviews. The party is not for everyone, it's an Asian party. That's why the color of the party is YELLOW.

Also on the party's website:

"Today I want to talk more specifically about how my new government will address the concerns of hard-working immigrants and new Canadians"

"Hard-working immigrants and new Canadians need a new government – a government that shares your values, a government that shares your priorities."

"New Canadians will be a critical part of making the 21st century our greatest one yet. New Canadians deserve a federal government that truly respects your efforts and hard work, understands your values, and never takes you for granted"

"On January 23rd, stand up for accountability, stand up for new Canadians, stand up for Canada."

Ooops, wrong party. That was from the Conservative Website

I guess that means the Conservatives are also an immigrant-only party??

Just to help out your remedial reading skills, "Chinese" is not an alternate spelling of "new."

[gc1765]

You think the Conservatives are a "new Canadian"-only party???

[FascistLibertarian]

Chinese is not a race, Chinese is an ethnic category.

This is an ethnic party, not a race based one.

They have as much right to make a party as anyone else. As long as they dont deny membership who cares.

This party is not a threat.

mikedavid00 your misinformed.

Immigrants help this country in so many ways. They are not a threat and they do not hurt this country.

The people who are born here are too often lazy and would rather get a philosophy degree than somethign useful.

And so many talented Asians want to come here and build a better life.

[betsy]

You think the Conservatives are a "new Canadian"-only party???

Why do you ask that?

Does this statement says new-Canadians only? Is that how you understood this simple statement?

"Canada needs change to a new government – a government that will bring accountability to Ottawa, and a government that will get on with addressing the real priorities of ordinary working Canadians and their families. Ordinary people come from all regions and from all walks of life, and in Canada they come from every corner of the earth."

http://www.conservative.ca/1004/37992/

[ScottSA]

And so many talented Asians want to come here and build a better life.

So what? I want to be filthy rich, like Paris Hilton. In fact, I want to be rich and live in the Hilton, and in Paris too, for that matter...both of them. But does that mean that Paris Hilton is obligated to give me her money because I want to make my life better? Where did this idea originate that coming to Canada is a "right" of immigrants? It's not.

Oh, and splitting hairs as to whether Chinese refers to an ethnicity or a race is silly. In fact, primae facia, it refers to a nationality, which makes the party leaders traitors and Canada in the middle of a rather severe international crisis. Fortunately, we all know what they're talking about even if you don't.

[gc1765]

"Canada needs change to a new government – a government that will bring accountability to Ottawa, and a government that will get on with addressing the real priorities of ordinary working Canadians and their families. Ordinary people come from all regions and from all walks of life, and in Canada they come from every corner of the earth."

No, but some people on this forum seem to think that if a party says it will work hard for Chinese-Canadians, that somehow makes them "Chinese-only". Apparently you missed that.

[ScottSA]

"Canada needs change to a new government – a government that will bring accountability to Ottawa, and a government that will get on with addressing the real priorities of ordinary working Canadians and their families. Ordinary people come from all regions and from all walks of life, and in Canada they come from every corner of the earth."

No, but some people on this forum seem to think that if a party says it will work hard for Chinese-Canadians, that somehow makes them "Chinese-only". Apparently you missed that.

So if I start a party that says it will work hard for White Canadians, you'll have no problem at all with that, right?

[gc1765]

So if I start a party that says it will work hard for White Canadians, you'll have no problem at all with that, right?

Not unless you give me some reason to have a problem with it...

Are you saying the Conservatives don't work hard for White Canadians?

[ScottSA]

So if I start a party that says it will work hard for White Canadians, you'll have no problem at all with that, right?

Not unless you give me some reason to have a problem with it...

Are you saying the Conservatives don't work hard for White Canadians?

I'm not talking about the Conservatives. I'm talking about a party that bills itself as dedicated to the betterment of white canadians. Please note that it doesn't expand that mandate to all canadians, but merely mentions white canadians. You won't have a problem with that, eh?

[gc1765]

I'm not talking about the Conservatives. I'm talking about a party that bills itself as dedicated to the betterment of white canadians. Please note that it doesn't expand that mandate to all canadians, but merely mentions white canadians. You won't have a problem with that, eh?

Answer the question...

[ScottSA]

I'm not talking about the Conservatives. I'm talking about a party that bills itself as dedicated to the betterment of white canadians. Please note that it doesn't expand that mandate to all canadians, but merely mentions white canadians. You won't have a problem with that, eh?

Answer the question...

Oh, I assumed you didn't need an answer to such a transparent rhetorical question. Of course the CPC works for White canadians. But I have yet to see an advertisment claiming that it works for white canadians...[full stop]. Have you? I really don't know why you choose to go this route...I mean really, if you don't get the distinction between the exclusionary ommission of everyone but "Chinese canadians" and the unstated inclusion of Chinese canadians, you really ought to take a course in...well...something.

[gc1765]

I really don't know why you choose to go this route...I mean really, if you don't get the distinction between the exclusionary ommission of everyone but "Chinese canadians" and the unstated inclusion of Chinese canadians, you really ought to take a course in...well...something.

Perhaps you should read the entire thread in order to avoid such an obvious strawman. Show me where they "omitted everyone but Chinese Canadians".

"But he later said the NAP wasn't a Chinese Canadian party and he intended to recruit immigrants from all ethnic groups."

Link

[ScottSA]

I really don't know why you choose to go this route...I mean really, if you don't get the distinction between the exclusionary ommission of everyone but "Chinese canadians" and the unstated inclusion of Chinese canadians, you really ought to take a course in...well...something.

Perhaps you should read the entire thread in order to avoid such an obvious strawman. Show me where they "omitted everyone but Chinese Canadians".

"But he later said the NAP wasn't a Chinese Canadian party and he intended to recruit immigrants from all ethnic groups."

Link

Why are you trying to play this infantile game? You keep edging backwards, dragging the goalposts with you. A minute ago you were denying that saying they would work hard for Chinese Canadians wasn't exclusionary, and now you're denying that they said it...or at least they changed their minds or whatever.

Lets set the grounds rules so I don't have to chase you all over the playing field. What purpose do you think this party serves? Why do you think it was formed?

[gc1765]

Why are you trying to play this infantile game? You keep edging backwards, dragging the goalposts with you. A minute ago you were denying that saying they would work hard for Chinese Canadians wasn't exclusionary, and now you're denying that they said it...or at least they changed their minds or whatever.

no need to get angry because you were wrong. I don't think it's excluding any races to say that they work hard for Chinese Canadians, just as I don't think it's excluding any races to say that they work hard for white Canadians. If they had said the ONLY work hard for Chinese Canadians then they would be excluding based on race.

Lets set the grounds rules so I don't have to chase you all over the playing field. What purpose do you think this party serves?

I think the purpose of this party is to try to look out for the needs of new Canadians. Since I am not a new Canadian it's hard for me to be more specific about what those needs are.

Why do you think it was formed?

See above.