wyly Posted July 24, 2012 Report Posted July 24, 2012 If you are innocent why make a plea? Why plead guilty to something lesser when you know you have not done anything wrong? Why would you let the judicial system screw you like that? If everyone stopped making pleas for something they did not do, what kind of society do we live in? a guilty plea and no further action taken, vs not guilty plea and potential 1K lawyer fee and a potential guilty verdict....this happens everyday in canada, lawyers routinely advise clients to do just that... what kind of society is that? I have no idea that's just the reality of the situation, the innocent do plead guilty to avoid even harsher penalties for things they have been accused of...someone facing potential life in prison won't think twice if offered time served plus a year if it's offered regardless if he innocent...protesting innocence as a matter of principle is easy to do when it's not your life that is at stake... You mentioned the cop did not even show for the hearing correct?he was there... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Signals.Cpl Posted July 24, 2012 Report Posted July 24, 2012 Yeah. It's called the Criminal Code of Canada. Section 48 if you need help narrowing it down. And since he has not severed his alligience to al-qaeda, I think we can still make a case that he is still commiting treason. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
guyser Posted July 24, 2012 Report Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) If you are innocent why make a plea? Why plead guilty to something lesser when you know you have not done anything wrong? Since it isn't a criminal charge, reasons such as time, money, convenience and the fatc that there well may be a glitch in the law you are unaware and would get convicted on. Courts have arbitration tribunals, although the Crown has no clue what the word 'arbitration' means, they make you an offer and your accept or deny. Edited July 24, 2012 by guyser Quote
guyser Posted July 24, 2012 Report Posted July 24, 2012 And since he has not severed his alligience to al-qaeda, I think we can still make a case that he is still commiting treason. Yeas, good luck with that. Seeing as the top govt lawyers have moved not one iota towards that should tell ya something. Not to mention treason is not applicable here. Quote
bleeding heart Posted July 24, 2012 Report Posted July 24, 2012 a guilty plea and no further action taken, vs not guilty plea and potential 1K lawyer fee and a potential guilty verdict....this happens everyday in canada, lawyers routinely advise clients to do just that... what kind of society is that? I have no idea that's just the reality of the situation, the innocent do plead guilty to avoid even harsher penalties for things they have been accused of... someone facing potential life in prison won't think twice if offered time served plus a year if it's offered regardless if he innocent...protesting innocence as a matter of principle is easy to do when it's not your life that is at stake... he was there... True enough. A guilty plea can be nothing more than the practical application of the lesser of two evils. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
Signals.Cpl Posted July 24, 2012 Report Posted July 24, 2012 Yeas, good luck with that. Seeing as the top govt lawyers have moved not one iota towards that should tell ya something. Not to mention treason is not applicable here. Just because they haven't moved on this does not mean that they cannot do so. And how is treason not applicable? Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted July 24, 2012 Report Posted July 24, 2012 True enough. A guilty plea can be nothing more than the practical application of the lesser of two evils. But once you plead guilty, you are guilty. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
The_Squid Posted July 24, 2012 Report Posted July 24, 2012 But once you plead guilty, you are guilty. So by this reasoning, nothing is illegal until you are caught. You are confusing the law with the real world. One has to weigh the options and calculate the odds and pros/cons. If one pleads guilty to a lesser crime to save one's ass even if you didn't do the crime that you are charged with, so be it. Quote
guyser Posted July 24, 2012 Report Posted July 24, 2012 Just because they haven't moved on this does not mean that they cannot do so. And how is treason not applicable? Treason is too tricky a charge to make stick. Not applicable because the charges would never stick. Under what reasoning are you suspecting it could? Quote
Army Guy Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 One has to weigh the options and calculate the odds and pros/cons. If one pleads guilty to a lesser crime to save one's ass even if you didn't do the crime that you are charged with, so be it. Sure that would be your thought process, we do that for all problems, however if your employer would to do a criminal back ground check, what would they find, that you were found guilty of the following charges, or that you plea bargined for a lesser charge. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
wyly Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 Sure that would be your thought process, we do that for all problems, however if your employer would to do a criminal back ground check, what would they find, that you were found guilty of the following charges, or that you plea bargined for a lesser charge. why would your employer do a check after you were hired?.. background checks are done before you are hired...i've never done a background check but you're probably right the check will only show you were guilty...not that background checks matter at all at the time to someone who is faced with plea a bargaining situation... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Army Guy Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 why would your employer do a check after you were hired?.. background checks are done before you are hired... Your right normally they are done before you are hired, but they can be done at any time, and if they find something they don't like and it is reasons for dismissal they are free to take action. i've never done a background check but you're probably right the check will only show you were guilty...not that background checks matter at all at the time to someone who is faced with plea a bargaining situation... It should matter if your going to plea guilty to something your not guilty off, i could understand something minor, but anything that could hamper you finding employment in the future, would need a second thought. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
wyly Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 It should matter if your going to plea guilty to something your not guilty off, i could understand something minor, but anything that could hamper you finding employment in the future, would need a second thought.if you're facing a plea to get 2yrs less a day vs 2yrs +, future background checks is the last thing going through your mind...imagine this extreme case scenario, you have been charged with a murder you haven't committed the prosecution offers a reduced manslaughter charge, your lawyer advises to take it, do you plead guilty to a manslaughter charge and take a 6yr sentence or stand your ground on principle and risk 25yrs of your best adult years behind bars? do future employment background checks ever become an consideration?.... and we both know this isn't a fantasy situation a number of Canadians have been exonerated of murder charges in recent years due to DNA evidence and review of inept medical coroner testimony ... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
The_Squid Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 Sure that would be your thought process, we do that for all problems, however if your employer would to do a criminal back ground check, what would they find, that you were found guilty of the following charges, or that you plea bargined for a lesser charge. That's simply another factor to consider.... In terms of a traffic violation, it isn't a big deal. In terms of Khadr; better a few years in jail and going home than the rest of his life in jail in the USA... which was a possibility if he didn't plead out. Which makes me wonder.... why would the USA offer a plea to a blood thirsty terrorist who killed American soldiers and is still a threat? Answer: they wouldn't!! Quote
Signals.Cpl Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 So by this reasoning, nothing is illegal until you are caught. You are confusing the law with the real world. One has to weigh the options and calculate the odds and pros/cons. If one pleads guilty to a lesser crime to save one's ass even if you didn't do the crime that you are charged with, so be it. No, my reasoning is that if you are innocent then you fight it, if you plead guilty even if it is to a lesser crime you are guilty regardless of wether you commited the crime or not. If you are found guilty by the courts, you are guilty, if you plead guilty you are guilty. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 Treason is too tricky a charge to make stick. Not applicable because the charges would never stick. Under what reasoning are you suspecting it could? © assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are. also: Kanao Inouye Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 Which makes me wonder.... why would the USA offer a plea to a blood thirsty terrorist who killed American soldiers and is still a threat? Answer: they wouldn't!! They did, and if they had no case what so ever he should have fought it to clear his name. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Guest American Woman Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 They did, and if they had no case what so ever he should have fought it to clear his name. He apologized to Speer's widow for the pain that he caused her and her family, so I have to wonder why he would feel compelled to do that if he weren't guilty. Quote
guyser Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged Heres the problem Quote
Signals.Cpl Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 Heres the problem The Taliban were the government and the armed forces of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, for over a decade now, the CF has been and continues to be involved in that struggle one form or another. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Signals.Cpl Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 He apologized to Speer's widow for the pain that he caused her and her family, so I have to wonder why he would feel compelled to do that if he weren't guilty. The simple answer is that he was guilty. The complicated answer also boils down to him being guilty. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
guyser Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) The Taliban were the government and the armed forces of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, for over a decade now, the CF has been and continues to be involved in that struggle one form or another. Pretty tenous to say the least. But that aside, double jeopardy will not allow for another trial. Omars a comin....and not a damn thing can be done. Canada could have had him serve time here, thus ensuring his moevments for many years, now, nada nothing nyet....just let him in and let him go about his business. Edited July 25, 2012 by guyser Quote
Signals.Cpl Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 Pretty tenous to say the least. But that aside, double jeopardy will not allow for another trial. Omars a comin....and not a damn thing can be done. Canada could have had him serve time here, thus ensuring his moevments for many years, now, nada nothing nyet....just let him in and let him go about his business. Double Jeopardy? Is he serving time in Guantanamo Bay for Treason? The act of picking up a weapon or building an IED and fighting against Canada is treason. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Guest American Woman Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 The act of picking up a weapon or building an IED and fighting against Canada is treason. One would think that would qualify as treason during war/conflicts. Quote
Rick Posted July 25, 2012 Report Posted July 25, 2012 You can huff and puff all you want, but this is way out of your league... go play with your dolls and let the adults discuss here. You base your argument on feelings, then you accuse others of doing so, and cry and whine that their arguments are invalid when they don't agree with you... go get hug and a tissue, wipe your tears and run along now. Still posting insults I see.... Quote “This is all about who you represent,” Mr. Dewar (NDP) said. “We’re (NDP) talking about representing the interests of working people and everyday Canadians and they [the Conservatives] are about representing the fund managers who come in and fleece our companies and our country. Voted Maple Leaf Web's 'Most Outstanding Poster' 2011
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