Militant Islam - A People of Beggars, Extorters and Takers

[White Doors]

Another conspiracy!

Jesus, how do you people keep track of them all?

Were the Dominionists in on 9/11 as well?

Please let us know!

[scribblet]

Both catchme and kuzadd are in violation of the rules of this forum

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[Higgly]

Taking the behaviour of one person and extrapolating it to a characteristic of an entire group is generally something that racists engage in.

[M.Dancer]

Taking the behaviour of one person and extrapolating it to a characteristic of an entire group is generally something that racists engage in.

It was White Doors who claimed I was arguing against Israel's right to exist. I guess all you illiterates look the same. You're off the hook

I'll keep that in mind......

[Higgly]

I'll keep that in mind......

JBG was attacking Moslems. I was referring to people who never cite any reliable sources and have problems with spelling. You appear to have put your own special spin on it.

This thread has nowhere to go but downhill.

[M.Dancer]

I'll keep that in mind......

JBG was attacking Moslems. I was referring to people who never cite any reliable sources and have problems with spelling. You appear to have put your own special spin on it.

This thread has nowhere to go but downhill.

So in your opinion, all muslims are militants. And you have the nerve to suggest J is the racist?

[Argus]

And yet your choice of words for titles sounds like nothing so much as a variation on the anti-Jewish propaganda from before the Second World War. You're not helping your argument by failing to notice the details like that.

That would not be a first on this forum given the use of the term "the Muslim problem" drop Muslim, put Jew in it's place and you have Hitler's rhetoric, which I pointed out to sharkman( who was the one who said this) at that time.

As others have remarked, the major difference is that the Nazis deliberatey cooked up a "threat" which did not exist, blaming all the people's woes on an already despised minority. To my knowledge, the Jews of that era were guilty of nothing whatsoever except hard work, and putting a lot of emphasis on education and family.

The Muslims are not a minority. There's damned near a billion of them, and the distrust and hard questons about them are directly proportionate and caused by the violence being commited by Muslims against non-Muslims. Virtually all the world's violence now comes from Muslims, and while those commiting the violence are few, support for their actions is often widespread in the Muslim world.

[kuzadd]

And yet your choice of words for titles sounds like nothing so much as a variation on the anti-Jewish propaganda from before the Second World War. You're not helping your argument by failing to notice the details like that.

That would not be a first on this forum given the use of the term "the Muslim problem" drop Muslim, put Jew in it's place and you have Hitler's rhetoric, which I pointed out to sharkman( who was the one who said this) at that time.

As others have remarked, the major difference is that the Nazis deliberatey cooked up a "threat" which did not exist, blaming all the people's woes on an already despised minority. To my knowledge, the Jews of that era were guilty of nothing whatsoever except hard work, and putting a lot of emphasis on education and family.

The Muslims are not a minority. There's damned near a billion of them, and the distrust and hard questons about them are directly proportionate and caused by the violence being commited by Muslims against non-Muslims. Virtually all the world's violence now comes from Muslims, and while those commiting the violence are few, support for their actions is often widespread in the Muslim world.

"As others have remarked, the major difference is that the Nazis deliberatey cooked up a "threat" which did not exist"

and what threat is it that Islam in general poses?

"

There's damned near a billion of them,"

"them"? what do you mean by that?

especially in light of what follows in your sentence, which I have split in two

and the distrust and hard questons about them are directly proportionate and caused by the violence being commited by Muslims against non-Muslims.

So there are about 1 billion Muslims, ok,

"and the distrust and hard questions are directly proportionate and caused by the violence being commited by Muslims against non-Muslims."

why how many Muslims are commiting violence against Non-muslims??

wanna cite Israel/Palestine?

Actually statistically speaking, Israel inflicts more violence on Palestine.

that is a fact, let's move on

OK?

Let's look at ...... the West, in Iraq, or the West in Afghanistan, or the West in Africa.

So how many non--Muslims are directing violence against Muslims, in proportional relation to population??!!!

It has in fact been the West that through modern history that has inflicted disproportionate violence ,(based on population numbers) murder and misery, occupation, on the Muslims, from the British Empire, through to the American Empire?

Your insinuations are nonsense.

even if you wish to cite 9/11, that was alleged to have been 19 people, 19 out of a billion.

[jbg]

This thread has nowhere to go but downhill.

The arrival of certain posters guarantees that.

[jbg]

It has in fact been the West that through modern history that has inflicted disproportionate violence ,(based on population numbers) murder and misery, occupation, on the Muslims, from the British Empire, through to the American Empire?

And show me any recent cases of Jewish or Christain random murder, rapine and pillaging inflicted upon Muslims, outside Serbia.

[Catchme]

JBG, kuzzafd noted actions by both Jewish persons and Chrisitans against Muslims that you ask for examples of.

We need look no further than Iraq and Palestine. But one could throw in Afghanistan too.

[GostHacked]

Here is my angel on it.

Muslim is the new 'black'. Before you were always hearing about the black community in urban centers across the United States. Crime, drug dealers pimps ect. You always had to watch out when around black people, for the 'threat' of one of them making a crime on you was drilled into the minds of people through the media, news, movies, whathaveyou.

You get the same thing now. Look at all the bad guys in the movies, news and other media. Freakin Arabs are the bad guys, right? Always those 'nappy headed' muslim extreeeeeem terrorists now. So a whole religion and their one billion followers are slated as 'the new black'.

I live in Ottawa as you can see. I encounter many of these Muslims on a daily basis here. I also see many blacks as well, from all over the world. I see many asians, and whites from all over. Do I fear any single one of these groups? No. There are nasties among every group. It is all a matter of perception and how it is presented to you. And you can blame the media/government for making you all stoned out on their dangerous message.

One more thing. I am agnostic/athiest. So as an outsider of religion I tend to see things in a different light. I don't believe in a god, so I really don't care which one of yours is better either.

[kuzadd]

It has in fact been the West that through modern history that has inflicted disproportionate violence ,(based on population numbers) murder and misery, occupation, on the Muslims, from the British Empire, through to the American Empire?

And show me any recent cases of Jewish or Christain random murder, rapine and pillaging inflicted upon Muslims, outside Serbia.

jbq:

beside the raping, murdering and pillaging in Iraq, Afghanistan?

or the US backed "christian" gov. in Africa?

Please, don't even deny, this has not been the case, when it is known that it has been.

The general premise put forward by yourself and argus is faulty, greater violence, based on proportion of populations, has been from the west -anglo/americans/Israel, the smaller of the population, have inflicted far greater violence, on the Muslim population. Through war/occupations/ overthrowing of Arab/Muslim elected governments/support of tyrannical regimes, etc.,

An interesting case I will cite, though as an example of Jewish/Christian collaboration in murder/rape/ was the Sabra, Shatila massacre. Are you aware of that one? I imagine you are.

While the Israeli army, under command of Ariel Sharon, surrounded the refugee camp, the Lebanese Chrisitan Malitia went in and raped and murdered, for three days, and the Israeli army stood by, encircling the camp.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2255902.stm

Sabra and Shatila 20 years on

"On 16 September 1982, under the watchful eye of their Israeli allies who had encircled the area, Lebanese Christian militiamen entered Beirut's Sabra and Shatila refugee camps bent on revenge for the assassination of their leader Bashir Gemayel.

There followed a three-day orgy of rape and slaughter that left hundreds, possibly thousands, of innocent civilians dead in what is considered the bloodiest single incident of the Arab-Israeli conflict."

There is lot's of information on this incident available.

jbq: not everyone, in any given group of persons has "clean hands: but to demonize all, for the crimes of some is wrong. That is all there is to it.

[kuzadd]

Here is my angel on it.

Muslim is the new 'black'. Before you were always hearing about the black community in urban centers across the United States. Crime, drug dealers pimps ect. You always had to watch out when around black people, for the 'threat' of one of them making a crime on you was drilled into the minds of people through the media, news, movies, whathaveyou.

I live in Ottawa as you can see. I encounter many of these Muslims on a daily basis here. I also see many blacks as well, from all over the world. I see many asians, and whites from all over. Do I fear any single one of these groups? No. There are nasties among every group. It is all a matter of perception and how it is presented to you. And you can blame the media/government for making you all stoned out on their dangerous message.

One more thing. I am agnostic/athiest. So as an outsider of religion I tend to see things in a different light. I don't believe in a god, so I really don't care which one of yours is better either.

I like your take!

I'll bet the Muslim's you encounter are just going about there day?

That's the case with the one's I encounter.

wrt the religious aspect, since I to do not buy into the " my god is better" routine, I think that precludes us from alot of baloney!

Thankfully!

[jbg]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2255902.stm

Sabra and Shatila 20 years on

"On 16 September 1982, under the watchful eye of their Israeli allies who had encircled the area, Lebanese Christian militiamen entered Beirut's Sabra and Shatila refugee camps bent on revenge for the assassination of their leader Bashir Gemayel.

There followed a three-day orgy of rape and slaughter that left hundreds, possibly thousands, of innocent civilians dead in what is considered the bloodiest single incident of the Arab-Israeli conflict."

There is lot's of information on this incident available.

jbq: not everyone, in any given group of persons has "clean hands: but to demonize all, for the crimes of some is wrong. That is all there is to it.

Shatila and Sabra were one incident. Also, the Muslims and Christians were in a long term war and many Muslim atrocities went unreported. My point is that the kind of incidents you're referring to are "man bites dog" and not vice versa.

[kuzadd]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2255902.stm

Sabra and Shatila 20 years on

"On 16 September 1982, under the watchful eye of their Israeli allies who had encircled the area, Lebanese Christian militiamen entered Beirut's Sabra and Shatila refugee camps bent on revenge for the assassination of their leader Bashir Gemayel.

There followed a three-day orgy of rape and slaughter that left hundreds, possibly thousands, of innocent civilians dead in what is considered the bloodiest single incident of the Arab-Israeli conflict."

There is lot's of information on this incident available.

jbq: not everyone, in any given group of persons has "clean hands: but to demonize all, for the crimes of some is wrong. That is all there is to it.

Shatila and Sabra were one incident. Also, the Muslims and Christians were in a long term war and many Muslim atrocities went unreported. My point is that the kind of incidents you're referring to are "man bites dog" and not vice versa.

No the indicent I referred to was in response to your own question

"And show me any recent cases of Jewish or Christain random murder, rapine and pillaging inflicted upon Muslims, outside Serbia."

sabra /shatilla along with the other instances cited, demonstrate clearly, the premise originally put forward by yourself and Argus are faulty. The disproportionate amount of violence is perpetuated by the minority, on th majority.

[White Doors]

And yet your choice of words for titles sounds like nothing so much as a variation on the anti-Jewish propaganda from before the Second World War. You're not helping your argument by failing to notice the details like that.

That would not be a first on this forum given the use of the term "the Muslim problem" drop Muslim, put Jew in it's place and you have Hitler's rhetoric, which I pointed out to sharkman( who was the one who said this) at that time.

As others have remarked, the major difference is that the Nazis deliberatey cooked up a "threat" which did not exist, blaming all the people's woes on an already despised minority. To my knowledge, the Jews of that era were guilty of nothing whatsoever except hard work, and putting a lot of emphasis on education and family.

The Muslims are not a minority. There's damned near a billion of them, and the distrust and hard questons about them are directly proportionate and caused by the violence being commited by Muslims against non-Muslims. Virtually all the world's violence now comes from Muslims, and while those commiting the violence are few, support for their actions is often widespread in the Muslim world.

Well said Argus. Nuance isn't kuzadd's strong point unfortunately.

[kuzadd]

Well said Argus. Nuance isn't kuzadd's strong point unfortunately.

Yes, since you know nothing about me, it makes clear how invalid your statment is.

That said, have you checked the most recent announcements?

If not you should.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showforum=15

suspensions and bannings

[White Doors]

Well said Argus. Nuance isn't kuzadd's strong point unfortunately.

Yes, since you know nothing about me, it makes clear how invalid your statment is.

That said, have you checked the most recent announcements?

If not you should.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showforum=15

suspensions and bannings

Well I have been around here alot longer than you with no troubles - but thanks for the reminder!

[Argus]

JBG, kuzzafd noted actions by both Jewish persons and Chrisitans against Muslims that you ask for examples of.

We need look no further than Iraq and Palestine. But one could throw in Afghanistan too.

Except that the violence in all three areas originated with the Muslims - something you apparently wish to forget.

[Remiel]

Except that the violence in all three areas originated with the Muslims - something you apparently wish to forget.

I could of sworn that this round of violence in Iraq started with Americans in ships, tanks and planes. But you know, maybe that whole deposing of the Hussein regime was just my imagination. Yeah, now I remember, Saddam was involved in 9/11 and had Weapons of Mass Destruction. So, of course the violence started with him. Not.

[kuzadd]

JBG, kuzzafd noted actions by both Jewish persons and Chrisitans against Muslims that you ask for examples of.

We need look no further than Iraq and Palestine. But one could throw in Afghanistan too.

Except that the violence in all three areas originated with the Muslims - something you apparently wish to forget.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=9183

[kuzadd]

Argus: "Except that the violence in all three areas originated with the Muslims - something you apparently wish to forget."

Remiel: "I could of sworn that this round of violence in Iraq started with Americans in ships, tanks and planes. But you know, maybe that whole deposing of the Hussein regime was just my imagination. Yeah, now I remember, Saddam was involved in 9/11 and had Weapons of Mass Destruction. So, of course the violence started with him. Not."

as far as Afghanistan goes, the country and it's citizens, had nothing to do with 9/11.

The allegation is OBL a Saudi citizen, was in Afghanistan.

yet, it was the country that was invaded and is occupied, by the west.

All this time , no OBL, and still the Afghan people are occupied, killed and imprisoned.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wrt Africa: Ethiopia entered Somalia

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/26/opinion/edlone.php

NAIROBI: Undeterred by the horrors and setbacks in Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon, the Bush administration has opened another battlefront in the Muslim world. With full U.S. backing and military training, at least 15,000 Ethiopian troops have entered Somalia in an illegal war of aggression against the Union of Islamic Courts, which controls almost the entire south of the country.

As with Iraq in 2003, the United States has cast this as a war to curtail terrorism, but its real goal is to obtain a direct foothold in a highly strategic region by establishing a client regime there. The Horn of Africa is newly oil-rich, and lies just miles from Saudi Arabia, overlooking the daily passage of large numbers of oil tankers and warships through the Red Sea. General John Abizaid, the current U.S. military chief of the Iraq war, was in Ethiopia this month, and President Hu Jintao of China visited Kenya, Sudan and Ethiopia earlier this year to pursue oil and trade agreements.

ironically

The two neighboring nations have been rivals for years, partly because of their religious differences, with Ethiopia having a strong Christian identity and Somalia almost completely Muslim.

The Ethiopian Leader is a brutal dictator, but is an ally in the "war on terror"

http://www.topix.net/world/ethiopia/2007/0...ntial-lobbyists

Ethiopia reaps U.S. aid by enlisting in war on terror and hiring influential lobbyists

WASHINGTON — One dramatic act sets Ethiopia apart from the array of countries with poor human rights records that have become United States counterterrorism allies since the September 11, 2001, attacks:

With U.S. backing, it invaded a neighboring country

and overthrew a Taliban-like Islamist movement.

The country that Ethiopia invaded is its neighbor to the east in the Horn of Africa, the disintegrated state of Somalia, where the Islamist movement, called the Union of Islamic Courts, had taken over much of the country and was suspected of harboring al Qaeda members. Ethiopia remains militarily embroiled there today. ( Al Quaeda, always there when the US needs an enemy)

In its latest human rights report for 2006, the U.S. State Department painted a grim picture of the Ethiopian government's human rights record, one that has changed little over the years. "Although the constitution and law prohibit the use of torture and mistreatment," the report says, "there were numerous credible reports that security officials often beat or mistreated detainees. Opposition political parties reported frequent and systematic abuse of their supporters by police and regional militias."

If you get a chance , read up on the' lovely' US backed dictator

Nevertheless, Ethiopia received a huge increase in military assistance from the United States in the three years after 9/11 — from $928,000 in the period 1999-2001 to $16.7 million between 2002 and 2004. In fact, in 2005 — a year of contested Ethiopian parliamentary elections when government forces detained, beat and killed opposition leaders, journalists and intellectuals — Ethiopia received $7 million in Foreign Military Financing funding, an amount nearly equal to the FMF total from the previous two years combined.

While both governments deny a quid pro quo, the increased military funding came after the largely destitute African nation became an early member of the "coalition of the willing" and a close ally of the United States in the global war on terror. Influential Washington lobbyists, including a former majority leader of the House of Representatives, worked on behalf of the Ethiopian government to secure the funding.

In the three years after 9/11, Ethiopia received increased funding from the FMF program (to buy U.S.-made weapons and services);

So Argus,wrong again, it was the US backed 'christian' nation, with the nasty dictator, that INSTIGATED the proxy war on behalf of the US.

keep trying, you may yet, get something correct.

[Argus]

Except that the violence in all three areas originated with the Muslims - something you apparently wish to forget.

I could of sworn that this round of violence in Iraq started with Americans in ships

The violence in Iraq was initiated by Iraq's attack on Kuwait. The leader of Iraq refused to sign any peace treaties, and repeatedly flouted the terms of the "cease fire". He taunted the victors and strung them along, for whatever reason. When he refused to fulfill the obligations he had agreed to in the cease fire the other party attacked and finished the job. That is the bald truth of the matter.

[Argus]

as far as Afghanistan goes, the country and it's citizens, had nothing to do with 9/11.

The allegation is OBL a Saudi citizen, was in Afghanistan.

yet, it was the country that was invaded and is occupied, by the west.

All this time , no OBL, and still the Afghan people are occupied, killed and imprisoned.

That is a bizarre way of looking at things - but unsurprising coming from you. Afghanistan made an international terrorist group welcome within its borders, a Muslim terrorist group which trained and organized there for attacks on foreign nations. That is legal justification for any nation to attack Afghanistan and that was done.

wrt Africa: Ethiopia entered Somalia

You mentioned Palestine, Afghanistan and Iraq, and suddenly you're introducing Somalia as if that was part of the original trio of instances. Nice but obviously dishonest.

But as to Somalia, that is another Muslim nation wracked by religious and tribal violence for decades now. Real good example of the face of Islam you're using there Kuzadd!