Racism in Lethbridge Causes National Boycott of Tim Horton's

[Drea]

The land claims should be settled. Now.

And natives should be free to do what they wish with their land (no, not 110% of BC -- that is totally unrealistic) and the Indian Act should be abolished.

The Niska (sp) and the Tswassen bands have settled and this is a good thing. Now if they want to put up Casinos or condos or billboards, utilize the land's resources or just leave the land be, that is up to them.

Matter of fact, Paul Martin is in the BC interior now, working with native groups to ensure their success... gotta love that man! Oh, he does it for free btw... he's become somewhat of a philathropist

The "poor me" mantra only goes so far. People need to get mad at their chiefs who take all the money for themselves and children go without. People need to make the chiefs accountable. And chiefs need to start some "revenue" streams for their people -- invest in themselves -- invest in the future for their people.

My hubby met a young native man at a union meeting -- he has some good ideas (and will no doubt be a real political force someday). He sees his generation as much more progressive and willing to make sacrifces to get ahead instead of whining about the past.

[Figleaf]

I grew up on a ranch in the Cariboo.

I grew up going to school and socializing with natives, many were close friends. My best friend was half native... she still is.

And I know the roommate stole them (of course it could have been one of her "boyfriends" as there was a different pair of cowboy boots at the door every night...) but I am pretty friggin' sure she pawned them to buy drugs. I certainly didn't friggin' lose them as they sat in my jewelry box...

One day I come home (I was 23 and naive about drugs) and she is sitting in her room freaking out that there were ants crawling all over her. There were no ants -- she was on something.... so I called 911 but they wouldn't take her to the hospital because she was coherent enough to refuse treatment.

Little while goes by... I spend the night at my boyfriend's place and come home to a little duplex full of smoke damage. In her drunken/drugged stupor (another one) she had thrown an ashtray in the garbage and gone to bed.

Back when I was a kid I knew this really nice blind native girl -- I used to help her getting on and off the bus... well one day after we'd all been in highschool a couple of years I see her and she has no arms! Apparently someone (her *uncles*) had gotten her drunk and she crawled onto the traintracks and was run over by the train. Poor girl -- bastard uncles.

Five years ago my sister took in a foster kid. A native girl who had been raised (along with her brother) by a very religious German couple. She had the best education, the best clothes and she was loved. But she no longer wanted to live by her adopted parents' rules so she went to the govt and they got her into foster care where she ended up at my sister's. One day my sister looks through her backpack (illegal for the foster parent to do btw) and found crack cocaine and a handgun!

She is 22 now and can't hold a job and routinely threatens my sister's youngest daughter (the only one not yet out of school).

Once again a kid with the world on a string who decided it's more fun to drink and drug than to work...

I probably have more examples but these ones stand out...

If you folks don't like to hear the truth it is not my problem. If anything in the native community is ever going to get fixed people need to stop glossing it over and saying "Oh pooor babies have been downtrodden for so long that it's in their genetics now!"

Pffffft.

So, after this sad recitation and bizarre rant, what is your prescription?

[Figleaf]

The land claims should be settled. Now.

And natives should be free to do what they wish with their land (no, not 110% of BC -- that is totally unrealistic)...

So what % of BC is 'realistic'?

People need to get mad at their chiefs who take all the money for themselves and children go without.

That's true, but legally, the federal government is also responsible for ensuring first nation's welfare, and by allowing this kind of corruption to go unchecked for decades at least, it has failed that trust.

[FNandPROUD]

their "hopelessness"......blaming the welfare system that keeps the FN rotting in such helplessness....and the blatant corruptions of your elders, which the previous government knows but had decided instead to let alone, turning a blind eye!

Your FN system is very oppressive to your women! Your women cannot own land. In cases of FN divorce, your women gets nothing! Maybe that's why that poor young woman Drea talks about ended up with the bottle. What good is an education if she knows that back in the bosom of her community, she's nothing!

Having worked in a bar, I've seen quite a few young native women pretty sauced up. And then, your youth!

Something about your system are driving your folks to despair....and it ain't coming from us!

edited: added a few

So, your quote was just a load of BS....your own little theory. I never said ALL elders were level headed, I was giving you my experience. Yes, the residential schools were a big mistake, the intention was rarely a good one. If you were actually to look into it, past the tip of your turned up nose, you would understand it.

Again, I'm not sure why you think you're an expert on our FN system because the women are held high in our society. Why would you think women cannot own land? Or get nothing?

Are you saying thre is no despair in youth of other cultures? Amazing that there are no non native woman in the bar you worked as well. I wouldn't know, I've never had to take a job in a bar.

[FNandPROUD]

The land claims should be settled. Now.

And natives should be free to do what they wish with their land (no, not 110% of BC -- that is totally unrealistic) and the Indian Act should be abolished.

The Niska (sp) and the Tswassen bands have settled and this is a good thing. Now if they want to put up Casinos or condos or billboards, utilize the land's resources or just leave the land be, that is up to them.

Matter of fact, Paul Martin is in the BC interior now, working with native groups to ensure their success... gotta love that man! Oh, he does it for free btw... he's become somewhat of a philathropist

The "poor me" mantra only goes so far. People need to get mad at their chiefs who take all the money for themselves and children go without. People need to make the chiefs accountable. And chiefs need to start some "revenue" streams for their people -- invest in themselves -- invest in the future for their people.

My hubby met a young native man at a union meeting -- he has some good ideas (and will no doubt be a real political force someday). He sees his generation as much more progressive and willing to make sacrifces to get ahead instead of whining about the past.

How are you aware that the Chiefs take the money for themselves? Each dollar that enters a band administration has to be accounted for to DIA and Health Canada, each band office goes through a pre audit in Jan and then an annual audit in May. You would have to have some pretty big loop holes to scam that much money. And yes....many First Nations carry good ideas, wow amazing who would have thought.

The "poor me" mantra as you call it, is something that you can't judge. You have not lived what these people have gone through. For so many years until in came to light, these people ignored it, hid it, covered it up with other negative forces and relived it. Many of the abused became abusers, there is just a thousand things I could list, but there is no sense because you would not understand it. Why? Because most with this attitude don't want to. Most with this attitude were the ones that opened and operated institutions that created generations of pain.

To the poster that said the girl no longer wanted to live by the rules, in a good home, etc. May it wasn't that she didn't want to. For one, we are finding out that children placed in home that are not of their ethnicity, is damaging. Another, maybe she was fetal alcohol effected. With some of these kids, one taste of alcohol is all it takes, thats it, it then rules their whole lives.

[Catchme]

The land claims should be settled. Now.

How are you aware that the Chiefs take the money for themselves? Each dollar that enters a band administration has to be accounted for to DIA and Health Canada, each band office goes through a pre audit in Jan and then an annual audit in May. You would have to have some pretty big loop holes to scam that much money. And yes....many First Nations carry good ideas, wow amazing who would have thought.

The "poor me" mantra as you call it, is something that you can't judge. You have not lived what these people have gone through. For so many years until in came to light, these people ignored it, hid it, covered it up with other negative forces and relived it. Many of the abused became abusers, there is just a thousand things I could list, but there is no sense because you would not understand it. Why? Because most with this attitude don't want to. Most with this attitude were the ones that opened and operated institutions that created generations of pain.

To the poster that said the girl no longer wanted to live by the rules, in a good home, etc. May it wasn't that she didn't want to. For one, we are finding out that children placed in home that are not of their ethnicity, is damaging. Another, maybe she was fetal alcohol effected. With some of these kids, one taste of alcohol is all it takes, thats it, it then rules their whole lives.

Yes Drea, they should be settled right now.

Excellent post FN&Proud, it is real easy to judge and condemn erroneously and from a position of priviledge, isn't?

[betsy]

So, your quote was just a load of BS....your own little theory. I never said ALL elders were level headed, I was giving you my experience. Yes, the residential schools were a big mistake, the intention was rarely a good one. If you were actually to look into it, past the tip of your turned up nose, you would understand it.

Again, I'm not sure why you think you're an expert on our FN system because the women are held high in our society. Why would you think women cannot own land? Or get nothing?

Obviously you didn't even bother to read about Leona Freed. She must be a phariah for fighting for women's rights in your community!

Well who's giving a load of BS? Your women has no right to property - the house - in cases of divorce right now. That's what the current government wants to change now! I don't have to be an expert on FN system! Prentiss talked about it on MDuffy Live only last week! Why is that?

So you shouldn't look any further if you truly want to change things around. Start within your own community. In this day and age, man.....to treat a woman like that is a crime!

If you want to point fingers as to where despair is coming from, point your fingers at your elders - for letting this treatment of women go on like this!

Your children grow up watching their mothers treated as such in a country like Canada, and you rant about mistreatment????

The mistreatment suffered by Indians from "whitemen" happened in the P A S T, while the mistreatment of your women by their own people still goes on - N O W, in the present day!

"Family law didn't apply in Freed's case, and still doesn't for many other women like her, because of where the abuse took place -- on a native reserve called Hollow Water, a couple of hours north of Winnipeg.

And you try to deny it! Shame!

Before you castigate us about descrimination and mistreatment - look at yourselves in the mirror!

[betsy]

Corruption in band councils is a huge problem. The cycle of poverty and substance abuse is another. Never the less, the Federal government needs to stop throwing money at the problem and start allowing more easy integration of Indians into our society, until we no longer feel we have to draw racial lines on government benefits and legal abilities.

I can't reply to all of the inaccurate information you seem to think you are so knowledgable on.

I am amazed that you have visited all the FIRST NATIONS BANDS in Canada to know that there is so much corruption. See, you seem to think the Society is YOURS.

Well obviously Geoffrey isn't the only one who knows about corruptions in band councils! You must've been so busy that this went by you....and you hadn't noticed. Pay more attention to your women! This madam should be your leader!

Canada's Tribal Women Fight (Mostly Male) Graft

By JAMES BROOKE

The New York Times

January 1, 2001

DAKOTA PLAINS, Manitoba Against a winter prairie backdrop of bare trees, honking Canada geese, and four-wire fences, Leona Freed stands out larger than life. Eyes blazing and firing verbal buckshot, she is a new kind of Indian radical.

Her primary targets are not white people, but rather Canada's tribal chiefs, whom she accuses of "rigging elections, stealing government money, and going on fancy gambling vacations in the States, while their people live in third world poverty."

"If the non-natives operated their businesses like the chiefs, they would be in jail," said Mrs. Freed, who is 48 years old and pays household bills by bagging onions at $5.20 an hour. Her husband, Glen Freed, has had a towing business.

Mrs. Freed, one parent was Sioux and the other Ojibway, is part of a loosely organized new movement largely made up of Indian women who are taking on Canada's native establishment and are determined particularly after embarrassing and well-publicized corruption scandals to make clear how the equivalent of $4 billion American is spent on Canada's one million indigenous people, including Inuit and others.

Unchecked corruption and nepotism pushed these women to violate a

central tenet of minority group politics: breaking ranks when dealing with the white majority.

Many tribes explicitly excluded women from leadership roles and from property inheritance, justifying it as tradition. Such thinking has also defined tribal membership. An Indian man who marries a non-Indian woman has full rights of membership, including a share in federal benefits.

Indian woman who marries a non-Indian man often forfeits these benefits for herself, and they do not apply to her husband at all.

In 1985, Indian women who had married non-Indian men regained their legal status as Indians in Canada. But on returning to reserves, they often found themselves off lists for services.

Noting that she has six children and nine grandchildren, Mrs. Freed said: "The women are tired of what's happening. We want a future for our children."

"Suicides, abortions, crime rates are all going up," Mrs. Freed said with a raw anger. (Two days before, her 20-year-old niece, Jerilyn Dawn Price, mother of a small boy, had killed herself.)

http://www.sen.parl.gc.ca/pcarney/english/...omen_fight_.htm

This is when I say, YOU GO, GIRL!

[betsy]

FNANDPROUD, here's a list of some allegations of corruptions....

"Over the last three years, the number of tribal fraud allegations investigated by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police has increased to 48 from 3. Last summer, about one- third of Canada's 912 Indian groups failed to file audits with the federal government. A steady stream of stories about corruption have appeared in Canada's newspapers, tales that have contributed to a hardening of the attitudes of non-native Canadians to tribal leaders.

In Nova Scotia last spring, the chief of a Micmac reserve was found to be compensating himself with the equivalent of about $275,000 American in salary and expenses; at the same time the provincial premier's salary was $53,300. On the reserve, which is $10 million in debt and has an unemployment rate of about 70 percent, the average per capita income of the 2,700 members is $7,735.

In Canada, however, the message of tribal corruption has been most vividly illustrated by reports of junkets to sunny climes.

In Toronto, government support for an Indian addiction center, Pedahbun Lodge, was cut after it was disclosed that $110,000 in treatment money was used last year to send employees to California.

In Alberta, unfavorable publicity forced the Samson Cree tribal government to cancel a 12-day trip to Hawaii for 55 members. But, according to auditors, $200-a-day stipends paid to each trip participant were never returned.

Newspapers disclosed that the former director of the Saskatchewan Indian Gaming Authority had used provincial government money to travel with his wife to Barcelona, Brisbane, Paris and London.

The most damaging scandal occurred in November in Sagkeeng First Nation, about 200 miles northeast of here. In 1996, a federal audit had found that directors of the Virginia Fontaine Addictions Foundation Inc. had used program funds for employee trips, characterized as research, to Australia, Hawaii and Las Vegas.

In September, the center closed for renovations and sent 70 employees on a weeklong Caribbean cruise, billed as "a professional development retreat." Foundation officials have given contradictory explanations for that trip's financing, including payments by the center to golf clubs, Ticketmaster and a jewelry store in St. Maarten.

Barb Gervais, a center worker, said all the young people at the center were sent home before the cruise. She said it was her second, after a 1998 voyage to Mexico, the Cayman Islands and Jamaica, with center officials and a Health Canada official from the federal government. In early December, the Mounties arrested a center employee and charged her with threatening Ms. Gervais and another whistle-blowing former employee. Finally, federal support was cut off after center officials refused to cooperate with auditors. "

http://www.sen.parl.gc.ca/pcarney/english/...omen_fight_.htm

[ft.niagara]

Racism lies just beneath the surface in Canada and unless we are outraged at even the most minor of expositions, we simply allow it to fester.

This isn't racism, it (boycot) is extortion of a corporate entity. The tactic has worked in the past, no reason to think it will not work in the present. The only question is what (how much) is the payoff. the mock indigity is laughable.

[stignasty]

This isn't racism, it (boycot) is extortion of a corporate entity. The tactic has worked in the past, no reason to think it will not work in the present. The only question is what (how much) is the payoff. the mock indigity is laughable.

The well organized conspiracy of native peoples to blackmail corporations has been revealed!!

The only thing that is laughable is the distance that people will go to excuse racist behaviour. Then again, no. . . it's not laughable at all.

[FNandPROUD]

And you try to deny it! Shame!

What have I denied? I am speaking the truth from my experience, from my Nation and from the Nation of 7 bands that I work for. Most of your BS I choose to ignore because it is so inaccurate.

My Grandmother owns land & a home on the reserve she lived in as does my aunt.

I didn't bother reading your article because your view is pretty pathetic so I can imagine what kind of article you dug up.

As for treatment centres, they have nothing to do with Chief & Council.

As for others taking money for themselves, if they've been audited and caught (which obviously they have because it's in the news or in the paper) they would be now paying back the money. Are you saying there is no one in our provincial and federal system thats never taken money? Never taken a trip overseas with 12-16 of their closest friends, spending millions? Oh thats right......non natives are upright citizens and only the "indians" are bad, evil beings

[betsy]

And you try to deny it! Shame!

What have I denied? I am speaking the truth from my experience, from my Nation and from the Nation of 7 bands that I work for.

Well I'm speaking the truth from my own experience of having worked in a bar. Why, do you think this "drunken Indian" is just some urban legend that everybody had come up with...from coast to coast to coast? And way beyond our own soil....all across the USA?

Your "truth" is more questionable since you're working for the Band. You could very well be one of the lucky recipients of gratuities...who'd do all they can to keep the goodtimes rolling!

Most of your BS I choose to ignore because it is so inaccurate.

My Grandmother owns land & a home on the reserve she lived in as does my aunt.

Inaccurate my foot!

At least my "BS" are backed and supported by something.

Your people cannot fix your problems until you've all accepted and acknowledged that your people do have a problem. That's just that!

So instead of you wasting your energies trying to pin the blame on others.....you better wake up and pin it on those who are really responsible. Your first priority should be doing your own house-cleaning. Once you've eliminated your peoples descriminatory laws and mistreatment of your women.....only then will you have the credibility in preaching to us about descrimination and mistreatment!

I didn't bother reading your article because your view is pretty pathetic so I can imagine what kind of article you dug up.

Bingo! So you're admitting you are refuting what you don't know anything about. Hah, makes sense to me why your statements are accurate! In other words you just admitted you're full of BS! LOL!

As for others taking money for themselves, if they've been audited and caught (which obviously they have because it's in the news or in the paper) they would be now paying back the money. Are you saying there is no one in our provincial and federal system thats never taken money? Never taken a trip overseas with 12-16 of their closest friends, spending millions? Oh thats right......non natives are upright citizens and only the "indians" are bad, evil beings

But you work for the Band, don't you? I guess you're just being loyal to your employers.

As for our non-native leaders....yep some do practice....but there is auditing. The last time I heard, FN leaders do not want their books opened for scrutiny claiming the "right to self-governance."

No, I wouldn't say natives are bad and evil. But I'd say they are very much guilty of gender descrimination!

In this modern times, there is no excuse for that!

[Posit]

Betsy,

Band governments are branches of the federal government. The corruption comes from that institution.

Some recent examples:

RCMP nepotism and financial mismanagement

Ad scam

Jane Stewart's missing Employment Insurance funds

Brian Mulroney's Air Buses

There are plenty examples of political and financial corruption at all levels of government. I would suggest that if you were to focus your attention at the top the bottom and less significant entities would correct themselves.

[betsy]

Betsy,

Band governments are branches of the federal government. The corruption comes from that institution.

Some recent examples:

RCMP nepotism and financial mismanagement

Ad scam

Jane Stewart's missing Employment Insurance funds

Brian Mulroney's Air Buses

There are plenty examples of political and financial corruption at all levels of government. I would suggest that if you were to focus your attention at the top the bottom and less significant entities would correct themselves.

WHO sits in those "band council?"

I'm not denying about the existence of corruptions in the government. Like I've said....we've had audits to look into those things! The same thing that should also be applied to FN 'self-governing" communities!

I'm questioning the fact that FN leaders are resisting to have these audits....resisting the scrutiny of books and accountability on the basis of this so-called "rights" to this so-called "self-governance."

But the focal point of my rant is more about this so-called "descrimination" and so-called "mistreatment" that these FN radicals and some hypocritical or ignorant bleeding-heart-supporters are repeating like a mantra and loosely throw about everytime something happens! Like this petty Tim Horton incident!

Petty! Yes, I say it's petty....compared to the descrimination and mistreatment that your women are enduring all this time....today...as we speak!

If you want to insist on talking about descrimination and mistreatment, and abuses, well....let's talk about your women!

Look FN folks! The big bright flashing arrow is pointing at Y O U as a good example of what gender descrimination is really all about!

And you don't even have the stomach to admit it! The decency to acknowledge that this appalling mistreatment and descrimination against your own women does indeed exists and need to be rectified...that your laws need to be tweaked to get on board the 21st century!

This Leona Freed and some FN women had been screaming since 2001! Perhaps even longer than that!

Under the Liberal government!

Now, this current government is trying to do something about these women's situation! And somebody's not happy about that!

So don't preach to me about descrimination! Either you guys are also liars or you need to educate yourselves harder! Obviously you don't recognize the farce in your position!

*****

Note: Posit, pls don't take my rant personally. I'm just spouting off...I'm sick and tired of this bs coming from radical FN activists and ignorant hypocritical bleeding hearts.

[stignasty]

And you don't even have the stomach to admit it! The decency to acknowledge that this appalling mistreatment and descrimination against your own women does indeed exists and need to be rectified...that your laws need to be tweaked to get on board the 21st century!

Note: Posit, pls don't take my rant personally. I'm just spouting off...I'm sick and tired of this bs coming from radical FN activists and ignorant hypocritical bleeding hearts.

Let me see if I'm getting this right... you're saying that the "descrimination" against native peoples is justified because (according to you) their government agencies and societal systems are worse than your own? I assume you know the parable about the splinter in the eye. Not only does Canadian society at large have a log in its own eye, Canadian society is at least partly responsible for the splinter in the eye of native peoples. To then turn and complain about their problems with a magnifying glass, while ignoring our own is wrong.

The thing that you seem to be overlooking, is that the problems on the reserve are not simply a result of the doings of the people living there. The problems are a result of the system as a whole, as a result of the "Indian Act," as a result of the abuse of residential schools, as a result of generations of neglect.

By ignoring the real source of the problems we will never correct them. To justify racist attitudes based on that ignorance is clearly wrong. I won't do that. I guess that makes me a bleeding heart. I prefer that to the alternative.

[Drea]

Yes Drea, they should be settled right now.

Excellent post FN&Proud, it is real easy to judge and condemn erroneously and from a position of priviledge, isn't?

How is it that I am in a "position of priviledge"?

I do not (nor did I) have an ton of money "inherited"...

My ancestors came here from Germany with nothing. All they got is some land. Did I benefit from this land? Nope. My father left Sask and moved on to BC with just the shirt on his back. He worked at what jobs he could get and built his life from there. No, I do not come from "priviledge".

And the young woman that my sister fostered does not have FAS. She is a very intelligent (literacy wise) girl and can be very charming when she wants to. Not to mention she is so beautiful that she should be a Revlon spokesperson.

Do you really and truly figure she and her bro would have a "better" life if they were raised in "the band" rather then their "bad white" adopted parents?

[Posit]

How is it that I am in a "position of privilege"?

Yes you are in a position of privilege. Being attached to colonial anglo-saxons as a Canadian citizen you have unfetter access to lands and resources to which our government has stolen, or willfully manipulated the dispossession from native peoples AND the government protects your interests in those lands and resources by continuing to ignore the treaties over many of them. They also ignore the Charter of Rights and Freedoms when they encourage you to buy up, and develop lands and resources without also consulting and accommodating First Nations' concerns, issues and rights over the lands. And lastly when it comes time to settle outstanding claims and issues the government protect the illegal occupation of those lands your house and business occupy and instead offer a mere pittance of the actual fair market value of the land.

Do you really and truly figure she and her bro would have a "better" life if they were raised in "the band" rather then their "bad white" adopted parents?

Yes she would be much better off and have a "better life" living in her own community raised by her family, or by members of her community in comparison to outsiders. Your sister cannot offer the child culture and language with the same understanding and commitment as her community or family might, nor can she instill indigenous world view thinking. Statistically there are more babies and young children removed from native communities than all the children stolen away to residential schools. The UN definition of genocide includes the removing of children from their cultural origins. Just one more fine example to show that Canada is still engaged in the genocide of aboriginals. 2007 no less......

[betsy]

And you don't even have the stomach to admit it! The decency to acknowledge that this appalling mistreatment and descrimination against your own women does indeed exists and need to be rectified...that your laws need to be tweaked to get on board the 21st century!

Note: Posit, pls don't take my rant personally. I'm just spouting off...I'm sick and tired of this bs coming from radical FN activists and ignorant hypocritical bleeding hearts.

Let me see if I'm getting this right... you're saying that the "descrimination" against native peoples is justified because (according to you) their government agencies and societal systems are worse than your own? I assume you know the parable about the splinter in the eye. Not only does Canadian society at large have a log in its own eye, Canadian society is at least partly responsible for the splinter in the eye of native peoples. To then turn and complain about their problems with a magnifying glass, while ignoring our own is wrong.

The thing that you seem to be overlooking, is that the problems on the reserve are not simply a result of the doings of the people living there. The problems are a result of the system as a whole, as a result of the "Indian Act," as a result of the abuse of residential schools, as a result of generations of neglect.

By ignoring the real source of the problems we will never correct them. To justify racist attitudes based on that ignorance is clearly wrong. I won't do that. I guess that makes me a bleeding heart. I prefer that to the alternative.

You better read again! Everything that's been posted by me on this thread!

[betsy]

How is it that I am in a "position of privilege"?

Yes you are in a position of privilege. Being attached to colonial anglo-saxons as a Canadian citizen you have unfetter access to lands and resources to which our government has stolen, or willfully manipulated the dispossession from native peoples AND the government protects your interests in those lands and resources by continuing to ignore the treaties over many of them.

Yes Drea, you are in a position of privilege because they like to imagine everything we enjoy is stolen....when in fact it's been earned!

It's not inspite of anglo colonialism that we are in our enviable position....but it's thanks to it.

Trust me, this is not in way of an apology. The British Empire made this country what it is today...and today it's open to everyone! Don't imagine being here first gives you any privilege. You have to earn it!

If you think these were your lands, at the exclusion of everyone else...then take them back. You may not even need force. The loony liberals in this country seem only too willing to hand them over. Of course you have to be ready to look after them! Are you up for the task? I doubt it.

Who will be paying your way then?

[White Doors]

Betsy,

Band governments are branches of the federal government. The corruption comes from that institution.

Some recent examples:

RCMP nepotism and financial mismanagement

Ad scam

Jane Stewart's missing Employment Insurance funds

Brian Mulroney's Air Buses

There are plenty examples of political and financial corruption at all levels of government. I would suggest that if you were to focus your attention at the top the bottom and less significant entities would correct themselves.

So if the bands are corrupt it is your position that it's not their fault, it's the federal governmnets fault for allowing it to happen? Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds?

[Drea]

Yes you are in a position of privilege. Being attached to colonial anglo-saxons as a Canadian citizen you have unfetter access to lands and resources to which our government has stolen, or willfully manipulated the dispossession from native peoples AND the government protects your interests in those lands and resources by continuing to ignore the treaties over many of them.

I do not have "unfettered access" to all the land in Canada. I must go to a bank and get a mortgage (or have tons of cash) in order to buy it. Any native person can go get a mortgage and buy property, same as me.

They also ignore the Charter of Rights and Freedoms when they encourage you to buy up, and develop lands and resources without also consulting and accommodating First Nations' concerns, issues and rights over the lands. And lastly when it comes time to settle outstanding claims and issues the government protect the illegal occupation of those lands your house and business occupy and instead offer a mere pittance of the actual fair market value of the land.

First Nations (gawd I hate that term) ahem... unfortunately natives are not part of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms -- they are covered by the "Indian Act". Until the Indian Act is abolished you will continue to not be protected by the Charter. Can't have it both ways...

hmmm the Tsawassen band seems to be doing very well with their land (the best in the lower mainland btw) -- it is worth fair market value and they are free to sell it, build condos, leave it alone, build a casino, start a business.... whatever they want.

Do you really and truly figure she and her bro would have a "better" life if they were raised in "the band" rather then their "bad white" adopted parents?

Yes she would be much better off and have a "better life" living in her own community raised by her family, or by members of her community in comparison to outsiders. Your sister cannot offer the child culture and language with the same understanding and commitment as her community or family might, nor can she instill indigenous world view thinking. Statistically there are more babies and young children removed from native communities than all the children stolen away to residential schools. The UN definition of genocide includes the removing of children from their cultural origins. Just one more fine example to show that Canada is still engaged in the genocide of aboriginals. 2007 no less......

There are too few qualified native families. Too few. If there were more native families who were qualified to take in additonal children I would say "good". Reality is they end up with drunken uncles... and that is a problem. Look at the story of that baby who was "given" to her "uncle" -- ended up dead. She would have been much better off if someone had said "she needs a home and it doesn't HAVE to be native".

[FNandPROUD]

And the young woman that my sister fostered does not have FAS. She is a very intelligent (literacy wise) girl and can be very charming when she wants to. Not to mention she is so beautiful that she should be a Revlon spokesperson.

Do you really and truly figure she and her bro would have a "better" life if they were raised in "the band" rather then their "bad white" adopted parents?

Yes...I'd rather see these children in a FN home than in a home that thinks that they are doing the poor little "indians" a favor. People that will pretend to care for a child and then talk nasty about their culture or race...no matter which race that might be.

[FNandPROUD]

Well I'm speaking the truth from my own experience of having worked in a bar. Why, do you think this "drunken Indian" is just some urban legend that everybody had come up with...from coast to coast to coast? And way beyond our own soil....all across the USA?

So what about the drunken whites? Are you denying they exist? Why not rant and rave about them. Rant about the crazies that lock their kids in cages, in basements and starve them. Rant about the people that don't watch their kids and the poor kid falls to his death out the window or patio?

Your "truth" is more questionable since you're working for the Band. You could very well be one of the lucky recipients of gratuities...who'd do all they can to keep the goodtimes rolling!

Yes...I work for a band, one that does a pre-audit and post audit. Each of our programs go through in detail with the auditor individually. The Chief I work for is an amazing one, one that I feel is truly there for his people, to better their lives and their community.

At least my "BS" are backed and supported by something.

Well I'm not sure how more backed up my information can be....women in my family own land/homes.

As for our non-native leaders....yep some do practice....but there is auditing. The last time I heard, FN leaders do not want their books opened for scrutiny claiming the "right to self-governance."

Again.....I'm not sure what province you're following but this doesn't ring true for the Nations in my area of BC

No, I wouldn't say natives are bad and evil. But I'd say they are very much guilty of gender descrimination!

In this modern times, there is no excuse for that!

If that was all you were saying....just about gender discrimination I might agree, but that is not all you're saying. And as I said, if you're looking just at Manitoba, then you can't lump the Nations in all the other provinces in with them, each nation is individual. For example, if I recall correctly, the Mohawks brought back the law amongst their nation (that was originally implemented by the government) that if one of their own marry Non-Mohawk they lose their status and cannot live in the community.

[betsy]

So what about the drunken whites? Are you denying they exist? Why not rant and rave about them.

That was the mistake. The sign should've said "NO DRUNKEN SLOBS ALLOWED!"

Rant about the crazies that lock their kids in cages, in basements and starve them. Rant about the people that don't watch their kids and the poor kid falls to his death out the window or patio?

Would you like me to talk about parental neglect and child abuse happening in your Reserves?

Would you like me to question your Special Status Child Care Policies?

Would you like me to talk about Phoenix Sinclair?

Would you like me to talk about the welfare of your children?

Let me tell you the story that happened to someone really close to me.

I happen to have a stepson married to a native. This woman is one of the success stories among your people. She went to University. This couple did not have a child of their own, being young that they were when they met in University and were not ready for the task.

Unprepared and young to become parents, guess what? They ended up adopting her 4-year old sister because the poor girl was being neglected by their alcoholic mother. The abusive father, another native (different father from my daughter-in law) was long gone....took off!

My daughter-in-law's father btw is white living overseas. There is still contact between daughter and father. They exchange visits. They maintained a good relationship throughout the years.

Isn't it odd? I would bet that hadn't it been for this white father, I doubt if my daughter in law would've become what she is now....that she wouldn't have become like her mother.

BUT THAT'S NOT THE END OF THEIR STORY! After several years of having adopted her sister, they ended up having to adopt and save another native child....a boy this time....a cousin! My son is pure white, if you're wondering. And he really took on the task of being a father to these kids. The children are accepted as family by everyone!

Well I'm not sure how more backed up my information can be....women in my family own land/homes.

Well, you were the one who called my statements "BS!"

Besides, naming your family as a "source of back-up"...can hardly be considered as really convincing and credible support to your statements. How do I know you're speaking the truth?

If that was all you were saying....just about gender discrimination I might agree, but that is not all you're saying. And as I said, if you're looking just at Manitoba, then you can't lump the Nations in all the other provinces in with them, each nation is individual. For example, if I recall correctly, the Mohawks brought back the law amongst their nation (that was originally implemented by the government) that if one of their own marry Non-Mohawk they lose their status and cannot live in the community.

Well, FN posters all come on this board and you all speak as ONE!

Besides, you all speak the same language...use the same tone...and funny how this statement had come up from several native posters here telling us "you need to be educated about history, FN etc.., "

You all display the same characteristics that I notice being displayed by some feminists here. You all seem to be reading from the same FN HOW-TO book!

I notice that you're new...check out the other native issues on this forum and you'll see what I mean.

Anyway, that's not all I'm saying. Read again. Btw, welcome to the forum.