Is God poison?

[M.Dancer]

and ritual female genital mutilation are the bulk of the chapter on the subject.

There is nothing in either Christianity, Judaism or Islam that either promote or condome female genital mutilation. It is a cultural occurance.

I will assume then that this bigot is also against culture, everywhere.

[cybercoma]

Everyone is way off on a tangent.

Is there a God?

The bulk of the evidence suggests that there is no such being. If people want to believe in God, or a higher power, or some supreme being, they need to provide evidence for its existence instead of demanding special status, indoctrinating children and pushing their agenda on everyone with NO PROOF.

All the atrocities that occur because of church and faith are simply the reasons those who are religious need to stand up and show evidence of a God's existence,

Telling everyone that it's real because you believe its real, simply isn't good enough. If I go to my employer and demand every friday off because I believe in a Flying Spaghetti Monster that created us all, I would certainly expect him to think I'm an idiot, just as I believe anyone who puts faith in something without evidence is an idiot and anyone who teaches children those ideas is a dangerous idiot.

All these articles and writings about the dangers of God are only showing reasons for religion to be defended and the existence of God to be proven if he/she does exist. Something doesn't exist simply because you want to believe it exists, otherwise the tooth fairy, ghosts, aliens and psychics would actually be real. As far as the evidence shows, God is snake oil, superstition and mythology, just like all the other Gods we no longer believe in. The doctrines of faith have been disproven slowly but surely by each new discovery in science.

So, if God does exist, people need to start showing its evidence. All Atheism, Secular Humanism, and Agnosticism say is that there is not enough evidence to support belief in God. Saying that in and of itself is a belief is ridiculous, since it's a logical evaluation of the evidence, as opposed to saying it is true because I believe it's true.

[M.Dancer]

Everyone is way off on a tangent.

Is there a God?

The bulk of the evidence suggests that there is no such being.

Not only does the bulk rvridence say no such thing, there is no evidence, period.

Any evidence used to refute the possible existence of a supernatural supreme being would require a suposition that in all likelyhood is flawed.

The flipside of this is that there is no evidence of the existance of god either.

[stignasty]

and ritual female genital mutilation are the bulk of the chapter on the subject.

There is nothing in either Christianity, Judaism or Islam that either promote or condome female genital mutilation. It is a cultural occurance.

He's all too happy to apply it to all religions. His examples of circumcision and ritual female genital mutilation are the bulk of the chapter on the subject.

The point was that neither males or females should have their genitals mutilated to satisfy religious ritual. That's where he makes the case for child abuse. While "the big three" don't condone ritual female genital mutilation, there are religions that do. That's what he's saying. He's not just bashing Christianity, Judaism or Islam, he's saying that the whole of religious thought is flawed.

[sharkman]

The doctrines of faith have been disproven slowly but surely by each new discovery in science.

So, if God does exist, people need to start showing its evidence. All Atheism, Secular Humanism, and Agnosticism say is that there is not enough evidence to support belief in God. Saying that in and of itself is a belief is ridiculous, since it's a logical evaluation of the evidence, as opposed to saying it is true because I believe it's true.

Evidence that God exists? Here's a few thoughts from the link.

Here are just a few of the myriad of evidences that the Universe didn't just happen by chance:

The carbon atom, necessary for life as we know it, should either not exist or be too rare for the existence of life. According to Sir Fred Hoyle, one of the world's leading astrophysicists, the complex series of atomic reactions necessary for the formation of carbon are so unlikely to have occurred by chance that when he calculated them his own atheism was greatly shaken.

The ratio of the weight of the proton to the electron is so finely balanced that had it been much different there would be no Universe and no life. Theoretical physicist Steven Hawking says of this balance, "The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life."

There are four fundamental forces in nature: gravity, electromagnetism, and the strong and weak nuclear forces. The strength of each balances with the others to make life possible. Physicist Richard Morris writes in his book The Fate of the Universe, "Every one of these forces must have just the right strength if there is to be any possibility of life...It is almost as though the universe had been consciously designed...."

To believe the universe just 'happend' takes more faith than to believe someone created it.

[M.Dancer]

The point was that neither males or females should have their genitals mutilated to satisfy religious ritual. That's where he makes the case for child abuse. While "the big three" don't condone ritual female genital mutilation, there are religions that do. That's what he's saying. He's not just bashing Christianity, Judaism or Islam, he's saying that the whole of religious thought is flawed.

Well if that's the point then the half wit is only half on. Since no religion condones female mutilation, and since circusision isn't mutilation.......

.....besides, in poll after poll that I have done, 9 out of 10 women prefer the jewish look......

[Drea]

and ritual female genital mutilation are the bulk of the chapter on the subject.

There is nothing in either Christianity, Judaism or Islam that either promote or condome female genital mutilation. It is a cultural occurance.

I will assume then that this bigot is also against culture, everywhere.

Well SOMEBODY condones it because it is widely practiced in numerous countries.

I am "against" any culture (or religion) that actively promotes the destruction of human beings. Whether that be forced circumcision for baby boys, female genital mutilation for girls, suicide bombings, stoning, cutting off of one's hands, etc.

If this makes me a bigot (and I really don't get how anyone can consider these ideas "bigotry") then so be it.

I hold all religions in distain.

Two days ago a little girl got run over and died. "God in heaven" said one of my coworkers. "There can't be a god if innocent children die" said another "Where is he when we need him? Why didn't he pluck that little girl up just before she got hit?"

I thought -- "god doesn't exist, that's why"

... but I just kept my mouth shut

[sharkman]

.

I am "against" any culture (or religion) that actively promotes the destruction of human beings. Whether that be forced circumcision for baby boys, female genital mutilation for girls, suicide bombings, stoning, cutting off of one's hands, etc.

If this makes me a bigot (and I really don't get how anyone can consider these ideas "bigotry") then so be it.

I hold all religions in distain.

Two days ago a little girl got run over and died. "God in heaven" said one of my coworkers. "There can't be a god if innocent children die" said another "Where is he when we need him? Why didn't he pluck that little girl up just before she got hit?"

I thought -- "god doesn't exist, that's why"

... but I just kept my mouth shut

So you are against any culture that actively promotes the destruction of human beings? How about abortion? How is ending a human life not worse than circumcision?

Your co-worker wants a God who runs around pulling people off of crosswalks and preventing innocent death. No doubt God would have to follow drunks and druggies around, pulling people out of the way, and causing bullets to miss and so on. I think the co-worker needs a super hero.

God says things like don't get drunk, and don't covet your neighbor's wife, don't steal, don't lie, treat your neighbor as yourself, all which would cut down on a whole lot of grief. Don't blame God for what people choose to do.

[Charles Anthony]

I just noticed something intriguing.

This thread is the 666th topic in the Moral & Religious Issues sub-forum.

[Drea]

So you are against any culture that actively promotes the destruction of human beings? How about abortion? How is ending a human life not worse than circumcision?

Abortion was not mentioned in my post. I purposely left it out as the debate is still on whether or not the fetus is a full-fledged human being.

Your co-worker wants a God who runs around pulling people off of crosswalks and preventing innocent death. No doubt God would have to follow drunks and druggies around, pulling people out of the way, and causing bullets to miss and so on. I think the co-worker needs a super hero.

Isn't that what most people think god is? A superhero who will resuce them (after they follow this rule and that rule and prostrate themselves) to an afterlife -- rescue them from the finality of death.

God says things like don't get drunk, and don't covet your neighbor's wife, don't steal, don't lie, treat your neighbor as yourself, all which would cut down on a whole lot of grief. Don't blame God for what people choose to do.

A human being wrote down those words. There is no evidence whatsoever that an invisible entitiy dude wrote them down.

I am not blaming god -- how can I blame something that does not exist?

I blame human beings for not having the ability to grow up and face the reality that we are simply human animals with no afterlife, and no one looking after us. We are ON OUR OWN. LOL

[White Doors]

I hold all religions in distain.

Maybe you should set them down and give them a good wash.

[White Doors]

We are ON OUR OWN. LOL

prove it

[stignasty]

We are ON OUR OWN. LOL

prove it

"Proof is for math" - Graham Kendall

[sharkman]

And Atheists.

[Drea]

I hold all religions in distain.

Maybe you should set them down and give them a good wash.

LOL Good one!

The onus is on the worshipper to prove the existence of an invisiblity entity (good luck with that).

In today's world we no longer NEED religion (or gods) to explain that the sun comes up every day...that clouds produce rain. People used to believe that the sun would not rise if they didn't prostrate themselves in a certain way, or sacrifice a person, or burn incense...

We now know better -- I am CONFIDENT that the human race is capable of growing up and realizing no one is going to "make everything better."

Cheers!

[cybercoma]

We are ON OUR OWN. LOL

prove it

Prove that Zeus is not real.

Prove that Apollo is not real.

Prove that The Flying Spaghetti Monster is not real.

Atheists aren't the ones making wild assertion about invisible creatures. Those who believe in mysticism, superstition, fairies, goblins and Gods are the ones who logically need to show evidence of their belief's existence. Atheism by definition is finding that there is not enough evidence TO BELIEVE.

Prove that there isn't enough evidence is that what you want?

The best attempt at doing that is to get those who do believe to show proof of existence.

The closest we got to that was someone saying the complexity of the universe is too much to have been just a coincidence; however, that person is completely missing the fact that it's not coincidence that anything is here. There was a series of events that built upon each other and just because we don't have the answers to EVERYTHING yet, does not mean God is the answer. God is too complex to understand, according to theists, yet that doesn't mean there was a superior being that created God. Complexity and chance are not proof of a deity.

[Drea]

You nailed it cybercoma.

We are at a point where we are finding out more and more about the world (and universe) around us.

Those same folks that say "everything is too complex, there must be a creator" are the same folks who could not understand how a leaf "came back from the dead" every spring, so they attributed it to a power beyond their understanding (a god).

In millenia to come we will look upon these last few thousand years and marvel at how naive we were.

Just like today when we look at those religions who offered sacrifices so that the gods would make the sun rise the next day.

Today we know that the sun will rise, sacrifice or not.

[cybercoma]

...and to get back to the point of the thread, God is poison for that reason. The best example is the way Galileo was treated by the church. Religion stifles reason and logic. Religion shuns saying, "I don't know," in favour of saying, "it's because of God." Instead of teaching children to ask questions and seek knowledge, it stifles advancement by accepting a God or supreme being as the answer.

They're not allowed to find ways of curing people in the United States because stem cell research was made illegal. Illegal why? Because God will cry if we try to find ways of saving people.

Ridiculous that something as unprovable as God is getting in the way of producing REAL results of saving lives.

[sharkman]

...and to get back to the point of the thread, God is poison for that reason. The best example is the way Galileo was treated by the church. Religion stifles reason and logic. Religion shuns saying, "I don't know," in favour of saying, "it's because of God." Instead of teaching children to ask questions and seek knowledge, it stifles advancement by accepting a God or supreme being as the answer.

They're not allowed to find ways of curing people in the United States because stem cell research was made illegal. Illegal why? Because God will cry if we try to find ways of saving people.

Ridiculous.

You're kind of scatter shooting, but as far as stem cell research goes, some people still feel uncomfortable with harvesting babys for their cells. I don't know why...

[cybercoma]

You're kind of scatter shooting, but as far as stem cell research goes, some people still feel uncomfortable with harvesting babys for their cells. I don't know why...

Do you have even the faintest idea of how stem cell research is conducted and what it is exactly that they use?

Stem cells are no more a baby than an acorn is an oak tree.

And the existence of God, the primary argument, has yet to be addressed.

[M.Dancer]

The onus is on the worshipper to prove the existence of an invisiblity entity (good luck with that).

Really? Why? Who says? An atheist?

Worshippers do not require material proof for spiritual beliefs.

[White Doors]

I hold all religions in distain.

Maybe you should set them down and give them a good wash.

LOL Good one!

The onus is on the worshipper to prove the existence of an invisiblity entity (good luck with that).

In today's world we no longer NEED religion (or gods) to explain that the sun comes up every day...that clouds produce rain. People used to believe that the sun would not rise if they didn't prostrate themselves in a certain way, or sacrifice a person, or burn incense...

We now know better -- I am CONFIDENT that the human race is capable of growing up and realizing no one is going to "make everything better."

Cheers!

Yes, the human race is growing up, it's good to see.

However, being an Atheist takes just as much faith as believing in a higher power.

Regardless of which is correct, I don't know myself, it has been a life-long journey of questions and philosophical problems.. However to declare that Atheism is THE ONLY ANSWER and laugh at people who believe otherwise is remarkably similar to the practices of religious fanatics, do you not think?

In other words, if you were as grown up as the world is, you would not judge people for what they may or may not believe if it does not affect you.

Clearly you have not thought through your position for any length of time.

You are a 'lazy believer'.

shame.

[White Doors]

We are ON OUR OWN. LOL

prove it

Prove that Zeus is not real.

Prove that Apollo is not real.

Prove that The Flying Spaghetti Monster is not real.

Atheists aren't the ones making wild assertion about invisible creatures. Those who believe in mysticism, superstition, fairies, goblins and Gods are the ones who logically need to show evidence of their belief's existence. Atheism by definition is finding that there is not enough evidence TO BELIEVE.

Prove that there isn't enough evidence is that what you want?

The best attempt at doing that is to get those who do believe to show proof of existence.

The closest we got to that was someone saying the complexity of the universe is too much to have been just a coincidence; however, that person is completely missing the fact that it's not coincidence that anything is here. There was a series of events that built upon each other and just because we don't have the answers to EVERYTHING yet, does not mean God is the answer. God is too complex to understand, according to theists, yet that doesn't mean there was a superior being that created God. Complexity and chance are not proof of a deity.

No they are not. But neither are they proof that there is not one. By demanding 'proof' you are missing the point. Having 'faith' is not a coincidence. In the absence of proof you have to have faith to believe anything, not just in a higher power.

In other words the absence of proof of a higher power is just as much of a logical fallacy argument as an Atheist asking for proof of a higher power.

People much smarter than you or I have struggled with these proplems and questions for alot longer than you or I.

It is the very height of smugness and arrogance to come onto an internet forum and declare one side or another idiots for their beliefs all the while presenting very juvenile arguments. Some people are clearly deeper thinkers than others and it seems to me that the insults all come from the atheist side and coincidentally or not come from the shallowest thinkers of them all.

[White Doors]

You nailed it cybercoma.

We are at a point where we are finding out more and more about the world (and universe) around us.

Those same folks that say "everything is too complex, there must be a creator" are the same folks who could not understand how a leaf "came back from the dead" every spring, so they attributed it to a power beyond their understanding (a god).

In millenia to come we will look upon these last few thousand years and marvel at how naive we were.

Just like today when we look at those religions who offered sacrifices so that the gods would make the sun rise the next day.

Today we know that the sun will rise, sacrifice or not.

In your lifetime I am confident you will look back upon yourself and your actions and marvel at how smug and arrogant you were acting.

[White Doors]

...and to get back to the point of the thread, God is poison for that reason. The best example is the way Galileo was treated by the church. Religion stifles reason and logic. Religion shuns saying, "I don't know," in favour of saying, "it's because of God." Instead of teaching children to ask questions and seek knowledge, it stifles advancement by accepting a God or supreme being as the answer.

They're not allowed to find ways of curing people in the United States because stem cell research was made illegal. Illegal why? Because God will cry if we try to find ways of saving people.

Ridiculous that something as unprovable as God is getting in the way of producing REAL results of saving lives.

I find it equally ridiculous that you would reduce the stem cell argument to 'making God cry'.

The stem cell argument is a ethical nightmare, nothing to do with Religion necessarily.

I am also quite surprised that you blame religions for these actions, yet leave all other creeds out of it?

Do you also hold secular humanism in equal, or worse, contempt?

What about politics? Do you hold politics in contempt?

You see, it is not the belief in God that is the problem, it is the actions of MAN that use violence to promote one ideology over another. This ALWAYS starts out as promoting one ideology over the other and showing contempt for the believers on the other side.

Do you see the irony yet?

I hope so.