Jack Layton Calling for Gas Control Prices

[scribblet]

Jack Layton is calling for gas control prices, is this a good idea? I wouldn't mind an inquiry into pricing and collusion, but I don't see how the gov't can control the prices, without controlling wages.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/politics...a2413a2e&k=6862

MONTREAL - Big Oil is getting far too plump at the pump and the NDP wants a watchdog with real teeth to prevent "gouging," NDP Leader Jack Layton said Friday.

"We join with the Consumers' Association of Canada in calling for an inquiry into how these gas prices are being set, how they manage to get so high, so fast all at the same time," Layton added.

Prices across the country have soared recently.

"Were also calling for the establishment of an agency to review and establish what fair pricing would be," Layton said.

[normanchateau]

Jack Layton is calling for gas control prices, is this a good idea? I wouldn't mind an inquiry into pricing and collusion, but I don't see how the gov't can control the prices, without controlling wages.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/politics...a2413a2e&k=6862

MONTREAL - Big Oil is getting far too plump at the pump and the NDP wants a watchdog with real teeth to prevent "gouging," NDP Leader Jack Layton said Friday.

"We join with the Consumers' Association of Canada in calling for an inquiry into how these gas prices are being set, how they manage to get so high, so fast all at the same time," Layton added.

Prices across the country have soared recently.

"Were also calling for the establishment of an agency to review and establish what fair pricing would be," Layton said.

Stephen Harper vowed to reduce gas taxes if he were elected. According to the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, this is yet another broken promise. Source:

http://www.taxes.ca/blog/archives/gas_tax/index.php

[sharkman]

What is this? You bring up Harper or the Tories in every single thread Norman. In another thread you straight faced said you didn't know which party Jdobbin supports. You're doing the same thing by bringing Harper into every single thread you comment on. But go ahead, it's not like you're fooling anyone in this case either!

At any rate, gas prices have been lowered, and will be reduced further by the reduction of the GST. I am not happy with this strategy, however, I think there should be some kind of pricing controls only allowing Gas corps to raise them once evey quarter and only if they can prove the need. This nonsense of prices bouncing around on a daily basis amounts to gouging, and needs to stop.

[scribblet]

What is this? You bring up Harper or the Tories in every single thread Norman. In another thread you straight faced said you didn't know which party Jdobbin supports. You're doing the same thing by bringing Harper into every single thread you comment on. But go ahead, it's not like you're fooling anyone in this case either!

At any rate, gas prices have been lowered, and will be reduced further by the reduction of the GST. I am not happy with this strategy, however, I think there should be some kind of pricing controls only allowing Gas corps to raise them once evey quarter and only if they can prove the need. This nonsense of prices bouncing around on a daily basis amounts to gouging, and needs to stop.

Could be some kind of OCD....

If I remember there was a commission (maybe in Liberal Ontario, don't remember) a couple of years ago investigating oil pricing, it didn't come to anything. I'd like to know how they all know when and how to raise the prices, there has to be some collusion, and that is where the law can get them.

[Michael Bluth]

Could be some kind of OCD....

If I remember there was a commission (maybe in Liberal Ontario, don't remember) a couple of years ago investigating oil pricing, it didn't come to anything. I'd like to know how they all know when and how to raise the prices, there has to be some collusion, and that is where the law can get them.

Agreed on the OCD.

It's not a matter of collusion. Far too much to risk for that.

These businesses operate in a competitive market. They have similar costs - crude prices, refining, transportation.

They constantly monitor the price of competitor's outlets.

No reason for outright colusion.

[cybercoma]

Jack Layton is so confused.

Let's help save the environment, yet keep gas prices artificially low.

Does that make any sense? I mean, I know I'm dumb and all...but come on!

[August1991]

Despite all the strong evidence of the past century, Layton is an old socialist who believes that a government bureaucrat can better allocate resources than a market price. It is this do-gooder, busybody aspect of democratic government that is truly frightening. (Why doesn't Layton try to fix the passport mess instead of careening off into a field that doesn't need government attention?)

There have been umpteen studies about competition in the retail gasoline market. The resounding conclusion is that it is a very competitive business where profits are largely made on car washes and grocery sales. (Imagine any other business where retail sellers must post prices with 2 meter signs for all to see and the product is largely homogeneous and bought and sold on a world market with thousands if not millions of participants.)

Here's an example:

Simple graph and qualitative analysis suggests that movements in both retail and wholesale prices are largely dictated by corresponding fluctuations in crude oil prices; however, local competition does seem to impact retail pricing. Importantly, they lend little support to the existence of predatory pricing.

As to world oil prices, even OPEC has trouble controlling it.

Stephen Harper vowed to reduce gas taxes if he were elected. According to the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, this is yet another broken promise.

Add Norman to the list of one trick ponies. Argus would blame immigrants for high gasoline prices. Leafless would blame Quebec and the French. Norman blames Stephen Harper.

[normanchateau]

In another thread you straight faced said you didn't know which party Jdobbin supports. You're doing the same thing by bringing Harper into every single thread you comment on. But go ahead, it's not like you're fooling anyone in this case either!

What party does jdobbin support?

[normanchateau]

Stephen Harper vowed to reduce gas taxes if he were elected. According to the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, this is yet another broken promise.

Add Norman to the list of one trick ponies. Argus would blame immigrants for high gasoline prices. Leafless would blame Quebec and the French. Norman blames Stephen Harper.

I don't blame Harper for high gasoline prices. I merely pointed out that he broke another promise which was to reduce the tax on gasoline. Is the Canadian Taxpayers Federation wrong in their information on this link?

http://www.taxes.ca/blog/archives/gas_tax/index.php

[Wilber]

All you have to do is limit supply and prices will look after themselves. You don't need any collusion on pump prices. Around here gasoline has gone up about 20 cents a liter in the past few weeks. Diesel has gone up 2 cents. Obviously there is no shortage of diesel but there is of gasoline.

[scribblet]

Jack Layton is so confused.

Let's help save the environment, yet keep gas prices artificially low.

Does that make any sense? I mean, I know I'm dumb and all...but come on!

Good point. I thought the enviro. people wanted to keep the prices high to lower consumption, Jack isn't making sense at all in that context.

[normanchateau]

Jack Layton is so confused.

Let's help save the environment, yet keep gas prices artificially low.

Good point. I thought the enviro. people wanted to keep the prices high to lower consumption, Jack isn't making sense at all in that context.

I agree. Jack is wrong. Keeping prices high is a good way to lower consumption. Maybe that's why Stephen Harper chose not to honour his promise to lower gas taxes. It's because he cares so much about the environment.

[Shakeyhands]

I'd be interested see if there was a way we could link an index on taxes to rising costs, that would spur gov't action

[scribblet]

Actually aren't the NDP policies calling for gas prices to be even higher so how can Jack Layton claim to be for both lower and higher gas prices at the same time?

The facts: – the NDP and Gas Prices:

* According to economists, under the NDP supported Liberal Bill C-288, gas prices would rise 60% above today’s prices. Jack Layton and all NDP MPs present voted FOR this bill (Division No. 112, February 14, 2007)

* Federal NDP leader Jack Layton wants the federal government to force oil companies to rationalize price rises (Vancouver Sun, May 8, 2004).

*

“Green Taxation Reforms: The NDP has emphasised the need to change existing tax laws and tax credits that artificially lower the true costs of fossil fuels and nuclear energy.” (NDP Action Plan, previously posted on NDP website)

* “Stop tilting the marketplace towards unsustainable fuel and, over four years, shift government subsidies away from unsustainable fuels towards renewable ones. The first step is to reverse the tax reductions for fossil fuel industries” (NDP Kyoto Plan, previously posted at: http://douglas.ndp.ca/kyoto/en/taxpa.php)

[normanchateau]

"Gasoline taxes are a form of carbon tax already in place, and New Zealand, Germany and the United Kingdom have been charging greenhouse gas taxes with some encouraging results."

http://www.globe-net.ca/search/display.cfm?NID=2524&CID=2

As this article reveals, gasoline taxes are a form of carbon tax. Must be why Harper chose to renege on his promise to lower them. He's becoming green.

[sharkman]

Jack Layton is so confused.

Let's help save the environment, yet keep gas prices artificially low.

Does that make any sense? I mean, I know I'm dumb and all...but come on!

Good observation, I know we've differed on other areas, but I agree with you here.

[southerncomfort]

Actually aren't the NDP policies calling for gas prices to be even higher so how can Jack Layton claim to be for both lower and higher gas prices at the same time?

The facts: – the NDP and Gas Prices:

* “Stop tilting the marketplace towards unsustainable fuel and, over four years, shift government subsidies away from unsustainable fuels towards renewable ones. The first step is to reverse the tax reductions for fossil fuel industries” (NDP Kyoto Plan, previously posted at: http://douglas.ndp.ca/kyoto/en/taxpa.php)

Good find, maybe someone should write to Jack Layton and ask how manages to reconcile lowering prices with cutting back on pollution and all that.

[normanchateau]

Jack Layton is so confused.

Let's help save the environment, yet keep gas prices artificially low.

Does that make any sense? I mean, I know I'm dumb and all...but come on!

Good observation, I know we've differed on other areas, but I agree with you here.

I agree as well but that still doesn't explain why Harper said he'd lower the tax on gasoline.

[Catchme]

Jack Layton is calling for gas control prices, is this a good idea? I wouldn't mind an inquiry into pricing and collusion, but I don't see how the gov't can control the prices, without controlling wages.

MONTREAL - Big Oil is getting far too plump at the pump and the NDP wants a watchdog with real teeth to prevent "gouging," NDP Leader Jack Layton said Friday.

"We join with the Consumers' Association of Canada in calling for an inquiry into how these gas prices are being set, how they manage to get so high, so fast all at the same time," Layton added.

Prices across the country have soared recently.

"Were also calling for the establishment of an agency to review and establish what fair pricing would be," Layton said.

This actually nothing contradictory about these positions of the NDP's at all.

There are no environmental caps in place other than the tax consumers of fossil fuels pay. Yet consumer pricing have soared even when Oil is making record profits. Now if you add this articialially high gouging by Oil, and more environmentally based increases, consumers will be paying double/triple/quadruple the amount they should be.

There is collusion, there has always been collusion, in pricing, only there is little need of it anymore as there really are just a handful of Oil company owners, they just use different Oil Company names.

[Wilber]

This actually nothing contradictory about these positions of the NDP's at all.

There are no environmental caps in place other than the tax consumers of fossil fuels pay. Yet consumer pricing have soared even when Oil is making record profits. Now if you add this articialially high gouging by Oil, and more environmentally based increases, consumers will be paying double/triple/quadruple the amount they should be.

Government gouging protects the environement but private gouging does not. Sounds like the NDP.

[normanchateau]

Government gouging protects the environement but private gouging does not. Sounds like the NDP.

So which gouging do you prefer?

[Wilber]

Government gouging protects the environment but private gouging does not. Sounds like the NDP.

So which gouging do you prefer?

Government picking your pocket for tax revenue protects the environment. Companies picking your pocket for profit doesn't. Seems that's what Jack and Catchme are saying.

[Big Blue Machine]

Dear Mr Layton,

Gas prices are set like this.

http://www.adf.com.au/attachments/library/...les/graph_1.gif

[normanchateau]

Government gouging protects the environment but private gouging does not. Sounds like the NDP.

So which gouging do you prefer?

Government picking your pocket for tax revenue protects the environment. Companies picking your pocket for profit doesn't.

Are you saying that Harper didn't keep his promise to reduce gasoline taxes in order to protect the environment?

[scribblet]

Dear Mr Layton,

Gas prices are set like this.

http://www.adf.com.au/attachments/library/...les/graph_1.gif

Not sure how old this is but http://www.readersdigest.ca/debate.html?a=v&di=74 it says here

A report last year by Liberal MPs investigating the gasoline industry failed to demonstrate any illegal gas price fixing among Canadian oil companies. The government's "price collusion" bloodhounds met with hundreds of people, turning over every stone.....

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/192040 an interesting article here an this part might have legs

He wants to see the burden of proof lowered so that it has a civil component, with damages, rather than proving criminal intent to fix prices.

This might give an investigation some legs.