Its morally wrong for upping the gas prices!

[jdobbin]

We've got various discounts too dobbin, safeway is 7 cents I think. Co-op is like 10 cents added to your yearly dividend.

Personally, I fill up at whever is easy to fill up at. 7 cents a litre is like 3 dollars over a full tank. I'd rather not waste more than a minute for that little of a deal.

People were all "oh my goodness, did you see gas prices today? better go fill up fast," at work today. Silly people. That mentality drives prices up. And realistically, it's not that big of a deal. People make it more trouble than it really is.

I usually fill up when I do grocery shopping. I'll take an 11 cent discount if it is offered and where I would normally do shopping. My Safeway has the coupons but no gas station.

For two cars, $8 a week X 52 does add up.

I might be well off but I don't live in Calgary and light my cigar with $100 while driving my Hummer and not pay attention to prices. <heh>

[eXploiTeD]

Gas is hugely expensive, and has been for quite awhile. It's just that the government subsidizes oil and gas companies to the tune of $1.4 billion. And so, an inefficient, bloated, uncompetitive industry is made slim again. Not to mention the fact that when we're talking about gas, we're really talking about cars, and thus a whole range of associated costs. The Ontario government spent $5.6 billion on roads in 2007-08 (Link). I wonder how much it spent on treating the various hosts of diseases caused by car pollution?

One study in the US showed that the cost of gasoline was actually around $15.14 per gallon (Link). When you factor in related costs, that is, such as maintaining supply lines overseas using military force, or having an adequate navy, so you can make sure Iran doesn't close off the Strait.

The point is, the supply and consumption of gasoline is costing people way more then they think.

[B. Max]

The point is, the supply and consumption of gasoline is costing people way more then they think.

That's the kind of nonsense that's comes from the likes of the world progress report.

[eXploiTeD]

The point is, the supply and consumption of gasoline is costing people way more then they think.

That's the kind of nonsense that's comes from the likes of the world progress report.

Great rebuttal.

[Wilber]

One study in the US showed that the cost of gasoline was actually around $15.14 per gallon (Link). When you factor in related costs, that is, such as maintaining supply lines overseas using military force, or having an adequate navy, so you can make sure Iran doesn't close off the Strait.

Gee, if no one had vehicles we could get rid of the military. Who'd a thunk it.

[B. Max]

hat's the kind of nonsense that's comes from the likes of the world progress report.

Great rebuttal.

I guess that's means you don't dispute it.

[August1991]

I'm so sick of hearing car-owners whine about the price of gas.

For Gods sake, a liter of gas costs less than a liter of Coca-Cola! I walk to work everyday! Get over it!

That's a very simple-minded argument. How does your boss get to work to pay your salary? How do your customers get to your place of work? And how does all that food get into your grocery store?

Gas is hugely expensive, and has been for quite awhile. It's just that the government subsidizes oil and gas companies to the tune of $1.4 billion.

Can you provide evidence of that claim? Which government and which subsidy are you referring to?

Your link above (www.progress.org) has the following quote:

The Department of Energy is forecasting that the national price for regular unleaded gasoline will average $1.02 during the current quarter, which, when adjusted for inflation, is the lowest price on record for any three-month period.

The price of gasoline in the US has been over $1/gallon for almost a decade. Can you please provide a more timely (and less biased) source?

Don't get me wrong. I don't disagree with your basic argument that the market "underprices" gasoline. I just think you lose the debate because you make outrageous claims badly.

[geoffrey]

I might be well off but I don't live in Calgary and light my cigar with $100 while driving my Hummer and not pay attention to prices. <heh>

I don't drive a Hummer or smoke cigars, but I'm offended by your comment.

I'm just saying sometimes the additional time (and in some cases driving distance) really doesn't make much sense. I won't take more than 5 or 10 minutes to save $4. I'd just work that much longer at work and pay the higher price for convenience. It's all a pretty rational thought out plan I think.

[GostHacked]

I might be well off but I don't live in Calgary and light my cigar with $100 while driving my Hummer and not pay attention to prices. <heh>

I don't drive a Hummer or smoke cigars, but I'm offended by your comment.

I'm just saying sometimes the additional time (and in some cases driving distance) really doesn't make much sense. I won't take more than 5 or 10 minutes to save $4. I'd just work that much longer at work and pay the higher price for convenience. It's all a pretty rational thought out plan I think.

Work a bit more when the price goes up again, and again. Soon you will be working just to fill your tank. Sounds like progress to me. Your actions justify what Big Oil is doing You are accepting these prices for convenience.

I got rid of my car 6 years ago. Have not owned once since. So much money I am not spending on maintaing a car. Well for me all that extra money is going towards my student loans. And after I am done, I plan to invest in a house before I ever buy car again.

[eXploiTeD]

That's a very simple-minded argument. How does your boss get to work to pay your salary? How do your customers get to your place of work? And how does all that food get into your grocery store?

Irrelevant. They make the choice to drive, and so they should shut up about the cost of gas because (A) they don't really know the true extent of that cost and (B] they'll pay for it either way.

It's not "morally wrong" to up the price of gas, it's morally wrong for the government to be using taxpayer money to help these inefficient and incredibly costly industries along. And it's morally wrong for the government to impose artificial price caps, as is usually suggested by those ignorant enough to say upping the price of gas is "immoral."

Can you provide evidence of that claim? Which government and which subsidy are you referring to?

Link.

The price of gasoline in the US has been over $1/gallon for almost a decade. Can you please provide a more timely (and less biased) source?

Less biased? Impossible.

The report includes the externalities of gasoline consumption to form a figure for how much it actually costs to buy some gasoline. It is therefore unlikely to find any report of this nature that is unbiased, nor any study of it un-mutated by ideological filters.

Don't get me wrong. I don't disagree with your basic argument that the market "underprices" gasoline. I just think you lose the debate because you make outrageous claims badly.

Oh noz.

[August1991]

Fron your link above:

“I don’t know what ‘particular situation’ the oil and gas industry is in to justify billions in federal handouts,” said Albert Koehl, a lawyer with Sierra Legal Defence Fund. “Instead of squandering taxpayer dollars and throwing in the towel on Kyoto, the government would do well to require the industry to start paying for using our atmosphere as a convenient waste dump for its pollution.”

It's not the "industry" that is dumping the stuff into the atmosphere, it's ordinary consumers - people like you who buy products delivered by truck.

The oil and gas industry accounts for about 20% of all Canadian greenhouse gas emissions.

IOW, the real problem is not gasoline but rather coal burning to produce electricity.

Canada's corporate tax regime is a minefield of inconsistencies. Your linked report could just as easily have taken to task the automobile industry, farming or cultural industries.

My own pet peeve is that we do not collect sufficient royalties on our natural resources such as oil, gas, minerals and lumber.

And incidentally, no one goes far using an argument based on "morally wrong".

Oh noz.

Huh?

[eXploiTeD]

It's not the "industry" that is dumping the stuff into the atmosphere, it's ordinary consumers - people like you who buy products delivered by truck.

Any cost-versus-benefit analysis will tell you it is better to deliver by truck and face the pollution. That being said, there are tons of alternatives... I grow all my own vegetables, for instance... and I only go to farmer's markets for my meat... and so your point, while valid, does not apply to me. It is true that transporting produce causes pollution, but it is also true that doing so does alot more good than the thousands of people who drive themselves, and only themselves, everyday. Whereas one truck can service potentially hundreds or even thousands of people, how many people does a typical SUV service? One? Two?

Canada's corporate tax regime is a minefield of inconsistencies. Your linked report could just as easily have taken to task the automobile industry, farming or cultural industries.

True... but unlike oil and gas, it isn't the producers complaining... it's the consumers... the one's who's activities are subsidized by every level by people who don't participate in what they do (i.e. me).

Which leads back to my original point: I am sick and tired of people complaining about the price of gas. Personally, I hope the gas tax is raised by at least 200%... that way it will be primarily those who drive automobiles that shell out the money...

As per your point about greenhouse gas emissions... I'm not too concerned about it... nor did I ever contend to be. I get more worried about smog and pollution than global warming.

Huh?

My way of completely dismissing your initial intellectual snobbery.

[BornAlbertan]

"Personally, I hope the gas tax is raised by at least 200%... that way it will be primarily those who drive automobiles that shell out the money..."

Guess again. People can cut back on driving etc...but EVERYONE regardless of how much they drive will be affected.

You think many urban dwellers on AISH or welfare have a car? Bet they eat though. You wouldn't support jacking the price of their food by 30% would you? Guess what? You just did!

It is a lot more complex than some prick like Jack Layton thinking riding a bike and boosting taxes will fix everything.

[eXploiTeD]

Guess again. People can cut back on driving etc...but EVERYONE regardless of how much they drive will be affected.

You think many urban dwellers on AISH or welfare have a car? Bet they eat though. You wouldn't support jacking the price of their food by 30% would you? Guess what? You just did!

It is a lot more complex than some prick like Jack Layton thinking riding a bike and boosting taxes will fix everything.

Of course people will be affected. They will have to make changes in their lives when the true cost of gasoline is made apparent, instead of hidden by government subsidies and a social welfare system. They'll carpool more and probably bus more. Tourism receipts will drop in the short-term. It might even cause a slight recession as the market reboots itself.

In the long run, it will save us hundreds of billions of dollars. It will also encourage the development of alternative energy technology. It will do that because these technologies are more efficient and cost-effective... not because of any government "management."

In fact, I am hoping that Canada will abolish all subsidies for the oil and gas industry, as well as dissolve all gas-specific taxes. The price of gas has been kept artificially low. In order for the market to be reflective of the price of gas, we need those barriers removed.

[Topaz]

So here it is May 8th and there's debate going on about the price of gas in Parliament. The Cons are defending the rising prices saying there's nothing to do, it just the way it is. The Industry Minister, even mentioned competition in the industry is good. What the minister should know is, when oil companies get together and make a pact to rise and lower prices at their own choice, that not competition that is scamming the public and making big profits!!! It looks as if this government too, is in bed with the gas and oil companies!

[Charles Anthony]

What the minister should know is, when oil companies get together and make a pact to rise and lower prices at their own choice, that not competition that is scamming the public and making big profits!!!

Oil companies do not get together because they can just look outside their window and see what every OTHER oil company is charging. That is not collusion.