bush_cheney2004 Posted April 17, 2007 Report Posted April 17, 2007 Yes. You are going to die at some point too, but that doesn't mean you are going to do everything in your power to stay alive for as long as possible, right? Wrong....I am not doing everything in my power to stay alive. But even if I did, it's OK to kill me "needfully"? Where, Afghanistan? At least Afghanistan was harboring the terrorists responsible for 9/11, unlike Iraq. So you agree that it is OK to kill people just for being in Afghanistan, or Haiti, or Serbia? Doesn't seem very consistent to me. Canada killed people in Iraq too...tsk...tsk. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
gc1765 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Posted April 18, 2007 Wrong....I am not doing everything in my power to stay alive. But even if I did, it's OK to kill me "needfully"? I think you know what I meant. If you weren't trying to stay alive, you wouldn't bother eating. And no, it's not OK to kill you, that would be "needless". Dying "needfully" would be dying of old age, for example. So you agree that it is OK to kill people just for being in Afghanistan, or Haiti, or Serbia? Doesn't seem very consistent to me. Canada killed people in Iraq too...tsk...tsk. Wrong! I never said that. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Posted April 18, 2007 I think you know what I meant. If you weren't trying to stay alive, you wouldn't bother eating. And no, it's not OK to kill you, that would be "needless". Dying "needfully" would be dying of old age, for example. No, I'm not sure what you meant. Today I ate a disgusting McDonald's 10-piece Chicken McNugget Value Meal with Large Fries and a Diet Coke. Sure, it's eating, but won't keep me alive long compared to a healthier choice. So far we have agreed that billion$ in American war machine spending helps Canadians, and that killing people is OK if done "needfully". This is progress....Canada kills people in far off lands "needfully" to enforce human rights (except for that nasty Somalia Affair), while the US just kills "needlessly" for oil. I'm sure it makes a world of difference to the dead. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
gc1765 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Posted April 18, 2007 Canada kills people in far off lands "needfully" to enforce human rights (except for that nasty Somalia Affair), while the US just kills "needlessly" for oil. I'm sure it makes a world of difference to the dead. If you could kill someone in order to save 10 peoples' lives, would you do it? Would you kill someone for no reason at all? Would you kill someone for oil? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Posted April 18, 2007 If you could kill someone in order to save 10 peoples' lives, would you do it?Would you kill someone for no reason at all? Would you kill someone for oil? Yes No Yes, oil and cigarettes Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
gc1765 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Posted April 18, 2007 YesNo Yes, oil and cigarettes Well, personally I'd agree with you on the first two but not the third. But that's just me. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Posted April 18, 2007 Well, personally I'd agree with you on the first two but not the third. But that's just me. Not a difficult decision....just think of oil in the same context as essential food or water, getting back to your assertion about staying alive. People kill for far less. I don't demand that Canadian or American armed forces do that which I wouldn't do myself. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
gc1765 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Posted April 18, 2007 Not a difficult decision....just think of oil in the same context as essential food or water, getting back to your assertion about staying alive. People kill for far less. I don't demand that Canadian or American armed forces do that which I wouldn't do myself. If my life depended on it, that would be a different story. But I would still be alive with or without the Iraq war. I would also still be alive even if I don't gain a whole bunch of oil tomorrow. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Posted April 18, 2007 If my life depended on it, that would be a different story.But I would still be alive with or without the Iraq war. I would also still be alive even if I don't gain a whole bunch of oil tomorrow. I think many of us would like to believe that, but our lifestyles as a society say otherwise. Petroleum distillates and associated products were actually rationed at one time...for WAR. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
gc1765 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Posted April 18, 2007 Petroleum distillates and associated products were actually rationed at one time...for WAR. Wouldn't that go against your theory that war makes money? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Posted April 18, 2007 Wouldn't that go against your theory that war makes money? No...the petroleum distillates were diverted to supply hundreds of thousands of newly manufactured aircraft, ships, tanks, and trucks. The USA pumped and refined more crude oil than ever before, supplying a good portion of the Allied war effort. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted April 18, 2007 Report Posted April 18, 2007 bush_cheney2004 Well the thing you were trying to get at was how much of a threat Iraq was to the United States. The list you showed did not have the US. So it is more of a threat to United States 'interests' and not a threat to the US itself. So there is a big difference. You failed to see that. No, you failed to understand that threats to the US and its interests are one and the same. Why did Canadians attack and sanction Iraq? Did Iraq threaten Canada? Did Serbs threaten Canada? Did Afghans threaten Canada? Did Haitians threaten Canada? I did not support those wars either. But there should be a clear distinction between the two. People will be able to put that more into context than to just be told what it is. A clear distintiction between a imminent threat the HOME, or a threat to HOME's interests. An interest is something we want from someone else. If that means forcing your will upon them and take it as it was your own, resulting in down right theft. Not to mention terrorism . Now, I understand that friendly deals between countries can result in HOME having to defend FRIEND's territory in exchange for security. That also can lead to abuse by the Head of the HOME to take advantage of FRIEND's obvious weekness. Now these interests you speak of, are the same interests the Enemy has. So, both are doing it under a guise of WE ARE MIGHTY STRONG FREE PROUD(in the name of love some god), ect. And slander the other publicly and so relentlessly that the public that is targeted is beaten into submission and will support whatever cause they have been brainwashed into believing. These interests are natural resources, such as oil and even fresh water. Prepare for the long war. Stock up now! Quote
gc1765 Posted April 18, 2007 Report Posted April 18, 2007 No...the petroleum distillates were diverted to supply hundreds of thousands of newly manufactured aircraft, ships, tanks, and trucks. The USA pumped and refined more crude oil than ever before, supplying a good portion of the Allied war effort. But all of that oil is going to the war effort, at the expense of the American people. Isn't the prosperity of Americans proportional to the amount of oil they have? How does having less oil make Americans richer? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 19, 2007 Report Posted April 19, 2007 But all of that oil is going to the war effort, at the expense of the American people. Isn't the prosperity of Americans proportional to the amount of oil they have? How does having less oil make Americans richer? Less oil? You are very much mistaken. See the history of Seven Sisters (Exxon (Esso), Shell, BP, Gulf, Texaco, Mobil, and Socal (Chevron)...over 20,000,000 bpd now. Oil here, oil there, oil oil everywhere! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
gc1765 Posted April 19, 2007 Report Posted April 19, 2007 Less oil? You are very much mistaken. See the history of Seven Sisters (Exxon (Esso), Shell, BP, Gulf, Texaco, Mobil, and Socal (Chevron)...over 20,000,000 bpd now.Oil here, oil there, oil oil everywhere! You are the one who said that oil was rationed for war. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 19, 2007 Report Posted April 19, 2007 You are the one who said that oil was rationed for war. It was rationed for war, and the war opened up even more opportunity for petroleum exploration and production. The hydrocarbon economy is not going to go away without a fight (war). Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
gc1765 Posted April 19, 2007 Report Posted April 19, 2007 It was rationed for war, and the war opened up even more opportunity for petroleum exploration and production. Ah, but the war is neverending... Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 19, 2007 Report Posted April 19, 2007 Ah, but the war is neverending... No, but preparation for war sure is. Plus the US needs a blue water Navy to make sure all those LCCs and ULCCs can bring the crude to market. When one thinks about it, it is quite remarkable that a liter of unleaded can be pumped, transported, refined, distributed, and retailed for less than a dollar. Cheaper than Diet Coke made at the local bottling plant, unless you include all the military force required to keep it flowing. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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