They were warned

[B. Max]

'gc1765' date='Apr 17 2007, 12:58 AM' post='208832']

Even if they were (which they weren't) does that automatically make them a threat to the United States? Is America a threat because it has a heck of a lot more weapons than Iraq?

Well they were, the yellow cake story is actually true. Iraq did try to buy yellow cake but was turned down. Iraq already had yellow cake which the Americans flew out of Iraq after they defeated Saddam's army. Iraq was a threat because they already proved it.

Saddam did not kill a single American, nor did he fund anyone who killed Americans.

You don't know that for a fact.

The old "fight the terrorists there so we dont' have to fight them here"? How does a presence in Iraq prevent terrorism from happening in the U.S.? Iraq has only created more so-called "terrorists" (ie insurgents), it has not made Americans safer.

That is the way war is fought. Choose the battlefield. By your own words, if the terrorists are busy in Iraq, they can't be in the US at the same time, their world wide networks have been disrupted, many of their leaders killed. The fact there has been no more attacks on this side is at least evidence it is working. Like I said before, it's not over by a long ways. They have plenty of patience, and we need to learn patience and quit looking for the quick fix. It's not that kind of war.

[gc1765]

The Carter Doctrine declared that the Persian Gulf was off limits to not only the FSU, but ANYBODY who dared to threaten US interests in the region. It has been true for US administrations and closest ally UK since WW2.

What are U.S. interests in the region other than oil?

See the 1970's era oil embargo, inflation, and 21% interest rates.

What does the Iraq war have to do with the 70's?

[bush_cheney2004]

Saddam did not kill a single American, nor did he fund anyone who killed Americans.

False. See USS Stark (FFG-31).

[bush_cheney2004]

What are U.S. interests in the region other than oil?

Israel, Jordan, Turkey, forward bases for power projection, open sea lanes, counter-terrorism...just to name a few interests.

What does the Iraq war have to do with the 70's?

Recession, inflation, scarcity, employment, monetary policy.

[gc1765]

Well they were, the yellow cake story is actually true. Iraq did try to buy yellow cake but was turned down. Iraq already had yellow cake which the Americans flew out of Iraq after they defeated Saddam's army.

Link (from a credible source)?

Iraq was a threat because they already proved it.

When did they prove they were a threat to the U.S.?

You don't know that for a fact.

There is no shred of evidence to suggest it is true. I could say that you dont' know for a fact that Stephen Harper hasn't killed any Americans. Unless you can prove that Harper hasn't killed any Americans, should we put Harper on trial?

That is the way war is fought. Choose the battlefield. By your own words, if the terrorists are busy in Iraq, they can't be in the US at the same time,

Except that those "terrorists" in Iraq werent terrorists before the war. The terrorists from other parts of the world (eg afghanistan) can still choose to attack the U.S. if they wish. The war does not change this one bit.

The fact there has been no more attacks on this side is at least evidence it is working.

Sorry but I can't help throwing in a Simpsons reference here, because that's exactly what this reminds me of. Are you a simpsons fan?

"Homer: Not a bear in sight. The "Bear Patrol" is working like a charm!

Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad.

Homer: [uncomprehendingly] Thanks, honey.

Lisa: By your logic, I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.

Homer: Hmm. How does it work?

Lisa: It doesn't work. (pause) It's just a stupid rock!

Homer: Uh-huh.

Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?

Homer: (pause) Lisa, I want to buy your rock. "

[gc1765]

Israel, Jordan, Turkey, forward bases for power projection, open sea lanes, counter-terrorism...just to name a few interests.

Aside from oil and people, what do these countries have that are of interest to the U.S.?

Recession, inflation, scarcity, employment, monetary policy.

Do you really think the U.S. was headed for a recession if they didn't go to war in Iraq? Or that the war in Iraq has improved the economy? I can tell you one way it would actually hurt the economy: $400 billion. Now, how did it help the economy?

[gc1765]

False. See USS Stark (FFG-31).

Proof that Saddam was behind the attack?

[bush_cheney2004]

Aside from oil and people, what do these countries have that are of interest to the U.S.?

See "Superpower" and the history of US foreign policy in the Middle East. Find out what forward power projection means. Find out about weapons system development and testing in Israel. Get a better understanding of tactical and strategic logistics.

Do you really think the U.S. was headed for a recession if they didn't go to war in Iraq? Or that the war in Iraq has improved the economy? I can tell you one way it would actually hurt the economy: $400 billion. Now, how did it help the economy?

The US experienced a recession in 2001, regardless of war in Iraq. Hurt the economy? Do tell:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EDJI&t=5y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=

[bush_cheney2004]

False. See USS Stark (FFG-31).

Proof that Saddam was behind the attack?

Saddam's regime purchased the Mirage F1 aircraft and Exocet cruise missiles.

The point is that your statement was patently false (i.e. Saddam did not kill a single American).

Illogically, President George Bush has not killed a single Iraqi.

[gc1765]

See "Superpower" and the history of US foreign policy in the Middle East. Find out what forward power projection means. Find out about weapons system development and testing in Israel. Get a better understanding of tactical and strategic logistics.

Why don't you explain how you think these things make the war in Iraq worth it?

The US experienced a recession in 2001, regardless of war in Iraq. Hurt the economy? Do tell:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EDJI&t=5y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=

Perhaps you should read my post that I wrote to B. Max a few posts ago, about Lisa and her rock. Unless you can explain how the war in Iraq would improve the economy, those statistics mean nothing.

[gc1765]

But speaking of statistics...

Link

I guess the U.S. must permanently be at war in order for the economy to keep improving like that?

[bush_cheney2004]

Perhaps you should read my post that I wrote to B. Max a few posts ago, about Lisa and her rock. Unless you can explain how the war in Iraq would improve the economy, those statistics mean nothing.

I don't care about Lisa or her Irock. War has always improved the US economy....improves Canada's economy too. See Great Depression and the impact of WW2.

[bush_cheney2004]

But speaking of statistics...

Link

I guess the U.S. must permanently be at war in order for the economy to keep improving like that?

Bingo!! You have finally figured it out.

[gc1765]

Bingo!! You have finally figured it out.

You think the U.S. remains permanently at war in order to help its economy? That's the kind of thing I would expect to hear from a far-left conspiracy theorist, not a right-winger. Oh well.

Perhaps you could explain to me how war helps the economy? How does using up more resources help the economy?

[bush_cheney2004]

You think the U.S. remains permanently at war in order to help its economy? That's the kind of thing I would expect to hear from a far-left conspiracy theorist, not a right-winger. Oh well.

Perhaps you could explain to me how war helps the economy? How does using up more resources help the economy?

The US spends more on "defense" than the next 15 highest spending nations combined. It helps the economy in the same way that any other government spending helps the economy. See "Keynesian Theory".

Should the US Government stop all military spending and interventions to make you happy (and hurt Canada's economy as well)? Or do you think it would make more sense to continue responding to the priorities set by elected government?

[B. Max]

'gc1765' date='Apr 17 2007, 01:32 AM' post='208847']

Link (from a credible source)?

This a credible source. The sources who are not credible are the one's who all but kept it a secret.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/8/28/110744.shtml

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/10/8/112447.shtml

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/10/8/112447.shtml

When did they prove they were a threat to the U.S.?

Iraq has proven it's self to be a threat to the US since at least the first gulf war.

There is no shred of evidence to suggest it is true. I could say that you dont' know for a fact that Stephen Harper hasn't killed any Americans. Unless you can prove that Harper hasn't killed any Americans, should we put Harper on trial?

We have Saddam's own words of what he wanted to do. That is enough.

Except that those "terrorists" in Iraq werent terrorists before the war. The terrorists from other parts of the world (eg afghanistan) can still choose to attack the U.S. if they wish. The war does not change this one bit.

But they choose to fight in Iraq. We don't know is, isn't, might or might not be. But we will deal with those who choose to be.

Sorry but I can't help throwing in a Simpsons reference here, because that's exactly what this reminds me of. Are you a simpsons fan?

Well like the old saying goes.

You can feck fight, old the light, or get the hell out of the road. We didn't start this war and no matter how much you wish it would go away, it's not, and we have to fight it.

[gc1765]

The US spends more on "defense" than the next 15 highest spending nations combined. It helps the economy in the same way that any other government spending helps the economy. See "Keynesian Theory".

So if the U.S. government spent a huge amount of money on toasters or frisbees or toothpicks, that would help the economy as well?

[gc1765]

This a credible source. The sources who are not credible are the one's who all but kept it a secret.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/8/28/110744.shtml

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/10/8/112447.shtml

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/10/8/112447.shtml

Note: any site that advertises penis enlargers is probably not credible. Got anything from MSM?

Iraq has proven it's self to be a threat to the US since at least the first gulf war.

When, specifically? What did they do that was a threat?

But they choose to fight in Iraq. We don't know is, isn't, might or might not be. But we will deal with those who choose to be.

Do you consider George Washington to be a terrorist?

[bush_cheney2004]

So if the U.S. government spent a huge amount of money on toasters or frisbees or toothpicks, that would help the economy as well?

Only if consumers wanted that many toasters, frisbees, or toothpicks. That's where the Soviets fell on their face with a command economy. One year they didn't make enough pencils. Macro and micro must work together.

Those stupid Americans only have the biggest goddamn economy on the planet. Go figure....

I answered most of your questions....please tell me why the US Government should change its policies to make you happy.

Why do you care?

[gc1765]

Only if consumers wanted that many toasters, frisbees, or toothpicks. That's where the Soviets fell on their face with a command economy. One year they didn't make enough pencils. Macro and micro must work together.

So Americans should get together and decided they want a whole lot of pencils. Then the government can buy up billions of dollars worth of pencils, and everyone in the U.S. will make a profit?

I answered most of your questions....please tell me why the US Government should change its policies to make you happy.

Why do you care?

Fair enough. The reason I care...I don't like to see people dying needlessly.

[bush_cheney2004]

[

So Americans should get together and decided they want a whole lot of pencils. Then the government can buy up billions of dollars worth of pencils, and everyone in the U.S. will make a profit?

Americans already do this...go to your local WalMart (American owned) in late July or August to observe the Back-to-School displays. You will find a fine assortment of pencils from domestic and foreign manufacturers. The government will receive tax revenue from the sale of these pencils, and it will also purchase millions of pencils with contracts. Two pencils in every pot!!

Fair enough. The reason I care...I don't like to see people dying needlessly.

They are going to die anyway....should they die "needfully"? Why is your own government killing people in far off lands? Caring begins at home.

[gc1765]

They are going to die anyway....should they die "needfully"?

Yes. You are going to die at some point too, but that doesn't mean you are going to do everything in your power to stay alive for as long as possible, right?

Why is your own government killing people in far off lands? Caring begins at home.

Where, Afghanistan? At least Afghanistan was harboring the terrorists responsible for 9/11, unlike Iraq.

[gc1765]

Americans already do this...go to your local WalMart (American owned) in late July or August to observe the Back-to-School displays. You will find a fine assortment of pencils from domestic and foreign manufacturers. The government will receive tax revenue from the sale of these pencils, and it will also purchase millions of pencils with contracts. Two pencils in every pot!!

Ah, but they should be buying more! More pencils bought means more money, right? So instead of buying a billion pencils, they should buy a trillion and that will make them richer? And if that makes them richer they will have more money and should buy 10 trillion pencils, or 100 trillion. And that will make them even more money that they will be able to buy a quadrillion pencils... Unfortunately, that's not how economics works.

[Guthrie]

Americans already do this...go to your local WalMart (American owned) in late July or August to observe the Back-to-School displays. You will find a fine assortment of pencils from domestic and foreign manufacturers. The government will receive tax revenue from the sale of these pencils, and it will also purchase millions of pencils with contracts. Two pencils in every pot!!

Ah, but they should be buying more! More pencils bought means more money, right? So instead of buying a billion pencils, they should buy a trillion and that will make them richer? And if that makes them richer they will have more money and should buy 10 trillion pencils, or 100 trillion. And that will make them even more money that they will be able to buy a quadrillion pencils... Unfortunately, that's not how economics works.

Yes, even the Dr Seuss characters the, 'Oncelers,' learned a harsh lesson about that and now know better --

ah, if only Dr Seuss had written a book to wisen up right wingers

[bush_cheney2004]

Ah, but they should be buying more! More pencils bought means more money, right? So instead of buying a billion pencils, they should buy a trillion and that will make them richer? And if that makes them richer they will have more money and should buy 10 trillion pencils, or 100 trillion. And that will make them even more money that they will be able to buy a quadrillion pencils... Unfortunately, that's not how economics works.

They only buy what they want....the market adjusts price and supply. It's a beautiful thing to behold. Americans will spend their billions as they wish, if that's OK with you.