Figleaf Posted April 8, 2007 Report Posted April 8, 2007 Bulgarians hate muslims for 500 years long captivity !! Is it a racism ? That would be bigotry. Bulgarians were not abused by the set of all Muslims, but only by certain Muslims. May be bigotry - but may be justified ? Hatred of the Muslims that oppressed them is justified, and not bigotry. Hatred of the Muslims that didn't oppress them is not justified and is therefor bigotted. Quote
Jerry Galinda Posted April 8, 2007 Report Posted April 8, 2007 Very sophisticated difference for ordinary people in Bulgaria – peasants, workers and so on. Especially that another Muslims are similar – only hadn’t opportunity do the same. Quote
ScottSA Posted April 8, 2007 Report Posted April 8, 2007 Hatred of the Muslims that oppressed them is justified, and not bigotry. Hatred of the Muslims that didn't oppress them is not justified and is therefor bigotted. You've obviously never had your life rudely interrupted by a group of murderous fiends. There's an element of truth, I suspect, to the saying that a hawk is a dove who's been mugged. Quote
Jerry Galinda Posted April 18, 2007 Report Posted April 18, 2007 Generally I'm talking to "wise" Woody ! Woody don’t know history and talk rubbish. Quote
scribblet Posted April 19, 2007 Report Posted April 19, 2007 I think people who were near this atrocity would be justified in hating these extremeists: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/122128 Muslim Anti-Jewish Crusade Also Pursues Christians (IsraelNN.com) Muslim fundamentalists, aligned with Al Qaeda, bombed a Christian bookstore and two Internet cafes in Gaza on Saturday following previous attacks on churches as part of its religious crusade to replace the secular Fatah faction. The "Sword of Islam" terrorist group took responsibility for the bombings of Internet cafes and music stores, which they consider an offense to the Muslim religion because they represent Western society. The same group has issued warnings to Gaza women not to hang out in Internet cafes. The Swords of Islam has bombed more than a dozen Internet cafes in several weeks and destroyed the vehicle of one young man who was playing his radio tape at high volume. It also ordered women to wear a full-face veil. Muslim courts in the Palestinian Authority (PA) increasingly operate as the moral authority over local areas, and one town in Samaria barred a music and dance festival. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
JerrySeinfeld Posted April 19, 2007 Report Posted April 19, 2007 But that begs the question: what does "race" have to do with religion? You lefties sure get your isms mixed up, don't ya? Semantics.... fine, you're a "bigot" if you think most Muslims support extremism. Actually, if that turns out to be true, then it's not bigotry, it's simply fact. Neither you nor anyone on this forum has the authority to say which is fact. I do know there is a knee-jerk ethno-sensitivity out there that jumps right past facts and directly into the "defend the downtrodden immigrant" routine. And many people from this ilk refuse to even accept the possibility that there are large groups of people who think MUCH differently than others do. One thing I do know is that I've seen little muslim girls on camera referring to jewish people as "filthy pigs and apes who must be killed". That isn't a symbol that bodes well for the image of a religious group that doesn't support extremism - but I'll withhold judgement for now. One thing is certain - there is a BIG difference between "supporting" extremism and "acquiescing" to extremism. Example? Not all Germans "supported" the Nazi death camps, but a lot of good that did the jews. Quote
jbg Posted June 10, 2007 Report Posted June 10, 2007 Example? Not all Germans "supported" the Nazi death camps, but a lot of good that did the jews.That argument will never sway Jew haters people who couldn't care what happens to the Jews, as long as no Muslims die. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
ScottSA Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 I think one of the dangers here is a misunderstanding of Islamic anti-semitism. In the shallow thinking of the west today, it simply means a hatred of Jewish people, as a sort of variation on "bigotry," or a dislike of Jews for no particular reason other than "ignorance," or "poverty," or some other shallow slogan. But it didn't always mean that, and that's not what it means to the Islamic mind today. The Islamic mind sees the Jew in much the same way Hitler did...in a substantively deeper and more comprehensive form of anti-semitism than we are used to or even able to grasp. Hitler didn't see the Jew as a merely pushy, rude, and grasping individual roughly defined by religion, he saw the Jew as a quasi-racial parasite; a disease within humanity. The cartoons of rodent-like kikes on posters in interwar Germany were not merely reflective of well orchestrated Goebbelian propaganda...they were a true reflection of a deepseated and widespread conviction that "Jewishness" was at the root of most of the world's problems. Hitler, for instance, blamed both Marxism AND capitalism (two sides of the same coin, as he saw it) on the Jew. He saw the Jew as a way of life, a genetic distortion of the pure, an evil in the midst of mankind. And that's what the Islamic mind sees when it thinks of the Jew. It's almost impossible for the modern western mind to grasp the depth and utter nihilism of this vision, and so in the case of Islam we ascribe it to either ignorance or worse yet to something the Jews must have done to deserve the hatred. And once having made the same mistake Chamberlain and his cabinet did with Hitler; that Hitler was justified in his demands; these same westerners look to Israel for the cause. After all, everyone is rational, right? So there must be a reason that fits our paradigm of rationalism for Islamic anti-semitism, right? Naturally, everyone looks to Palestine as the handy cause, and to Israel as the obvious culprit, entirely forgetting the fact that the situation in Palestine today resulted precisely because of the anti-semitism that preceded the situation everyone is so ready to blame for it! Israel didn't cause the warsaw ghetto or Russian pogroms or the slaughter, rape and enslavement of Jewish tribes by the alleged Prophet of Islam. Anti-Semitism did. Hatred of Jewishness and all things Jewish did. Islamic anti-semitism will not be satisfied until the last Jew is floating face down in the sea. I'm not being alarmist here; I'm simply repeating what is being trumpeted from every newspaper and mosque in the Middle East. It doesn't matter if every Palestinian in the world is given bejeweled palaces, unlimited riches and batches of burkaed virgins; none of that matters a whit while the Jew still lives. Hitler took away their money, their land and their citizenship, but that is hardly enough when one is dealing with a disease. Not only their lives, but their very genes have to be stamped out. Diseases must be eliminated root and branch, to borrow from Mao...and so it is with the Islamic mind. The only land for peace deal the Islamic mind will settle for is land denuded of the Jew and the peace of desecrated Jewish graveyards. As insane as that is, what's slightly more insane are the western apologists who blithely ignore the facts of the matter and blame the "Zionists" and "Israelis" for "murder," when the Israelis are doing everything humanly possible to fight humanely against an enemy who proudly fights as inhumanely as possible. So many on the left in this battle between modernity and Islam are making of themselves naive pawns for a comprehensively murderous cause. Quote
gc1765 Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 As insane as that is, what's slightly more insane are the western apologists who blithely ignore the facts of the matter and blame the "Zionists" and "Israelis" for "murder," when the Israelis are doing everything humanly possible to fight humanely against an enemy who proudly fights as inhumanely as possible. Someone should tell the Israelis that when the other side is fighting a war based on propaganda, and they kill many more Palestinians than vice versa, that they are only inspiring more hatred and propaganda, and making themselves less safe. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
ScottSA Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 As insane as that is, what's slightly more insane are the western apologists who blithely ignore the facts of the matter and blame the "Zionists" and "Israelis" for "murder," when the Israelis are doing everything humanly possible to fight humanely against an enemy who proudly fights as inhumanely as possible. Someone should tell the Israelis that when the other side is fighting a war based on propaganda, and they kill many more Palestinians than vice versa, that they are only inspiring more hatred and propaganda, and making themselves less safe. Obviously everything I wrote just got ignored lol. And what a stupid thing to say, frankly. What should they do, make sure they kill only as many Palestinians as there are Israelis killed? Would that make this "game" a bit fairer in your eyes? I swear, some of you lefties need some firsthand exposure to war...it's not a game of tennis...the object is to win, not volley a ball back and forth. Quote
jbg Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 As insane as that is, what's slightly more insane are the western apologists who blithely ignore the facts of the matter and blame the "Zionists" and "Israelis" for "murder," when the Israelis are doing everything humanly possible to fight humanely against an enemy who proudly fights as inhumanely as possible.Someone should tell the Israelis that when the other side is fighting a war based on propaganda, and they kill many more Palestinians than vice versa, that they are only inspiring more hatred and propaganda, and making themselves less safe.I'd rather the Jews be alive as a people and unpopular (as they almost always have been, except during the world's collective conscience spasm from 1945-67) than dead and loved.People seem to see something wrong wtih the idea of Jews having a state, not under Muslim or Christian thumb. Isn't that "self-determination" too? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
gc1765 Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 I'd rather the Jews be alive as a people and unpopular (as they almost always have been, except during the world's collective conscience spasm from 1945-67) than dead and loved. As would I. I am suggesting that the best way to stay alive is to avoid doing such unpopular things as killing thousands of Palestinians (or Lebanese). Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
jbg Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 I'd rather the Jews be alive as a people and unpopular (as they almost always have been, except during the world's collective conscience spasm from 1945-67) than dead and loved.As would I. I am suggesting that the best way to stay alive is to avoid doing such unpopular things as killing thousands of Palestinians (or Lebanese).Dhimmitude is too high a price for "life". If they want to threaten us, they'll wind up getting broken, not us. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
ScottSA Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 I'd rather the Jews be alive as a people and unpopular (as they almost always have been, except during the world's collective conscience spasm from 1945-67) than dead and loved. As would I. I am suggesting that the best way to stay alive is to avoid doing such unpopular things as killing thousands of Palestinians (or Lebanese). Hey, I have a novel fucking idea! Why don't the 1000s of Lebanese and Palestinians stop killing Jews? I suppose the Palestinians are starting to get the idea, now that they're busy killing each other instead, and the Hezbollah boys are still climbing out from the rubble of their last great victory over the Zionist entity, and if you watch the score closely you'll notice that whenever they stop killing Israelis, for whatever reason, the deathcount of Palestinians by Jews seems to go down too. Amazing, I think. Quote
jbg Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 Hey, I have a novel _____idea! Why don't the 1000s of Lebanese and Palestinians stop killing Jews? I suppose the Palestinians are starting to get the idea, now that they're busy killing each other instead, and the Hezbollah boys are still climbing out from the rubble of their last great victory over the Zionist entity, and if you watch the score closely you'll notice that whenever they stop killing Israelis, for whatever reason, the deathcount of Palestinians by Jews seems to go down too. Amazing, I think.Great idea. But my kids do get to see this computer screen. No need for profanity there. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
gc1765 Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 Why don't the 1000s of Lebanese and Palestinians stop killing Jews? That much is a given. But if the Lebanese do continue to kill Israelis, the Israelis should not retaliate by killing nearly 10 Lebanese for every Israeli. That will only encourage 100 more terrorists to kill 1000 more Israelis. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
jbg Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 Why don't the 1000s of Lebanese and Palestinians stop killing Jews?That much is a given. But if the Lebanese do continue to kill Israelis, the Israelis should not retaliate by killing nearly 10 Lebanese for every Israeli. That will only encourage 100 more terrorists to kill 1000 more Israelis.When the Muslims fight from civilian areas, they ensure that result. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
gc1765 Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 When the Muslims fight from civilian areas, they ensure that result. Even if that is true, why retaliate at all? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Remiel Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 How many types of land are there in Israel? Does it not only come in three varieties? Open land, Israeli military base and civilian habitation. What tactically sound battleground is there available for a force that has absolutely no mechanized backup? Quote
jbg Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 When the Muslims fight from civilian areas, they ensure that result.Even if that is true, why retaliate at all?Ah,, now I get it. In your scenario Israel dies the death of one thousand cuts.How many types of land are there in Israel? Does it not only come in three varieties? Open land, Israeli military base and civilian habitation. What tactically sound battleground is there available for a force that has absolutely no mechanized backup?Huh? I was talking about land in Lebanon, where the "fighters" hang out among civilians. If they want to fight Israel, let them form armies, and go to war. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
gc1765 Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 and here I thought we were going to have an intelligent discussion... My mistake. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Remiel Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 Huh? I was talking about land in Lebanon, where the "fighters" hang out among civilians. If they want to fight Israel, let them form armies, and go to war. More informed people than you or I have already gone to great lengths discussing the origins of terrorism as a tool for asymetrical warfare. For all the talk of Iran and Syria supporting Hamas and Hezbollah, you do not see the Iranian Revolutionary Guard blowing themselves up in pizza parlours because they actually *have* the resources to field armies. Palestinians do not. Quote
jbg Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 Huh? I was talking about land in Lebanon, where the "fighters" hang out among civilians. If they want to fight Israel, let them form armies, and go to war. More informed people than you or I have already gone to great lengths discussing the origins of terrorism as a tool for asymetrical warfare. For all the talk of Iran and Syria supporting Hamas and Hezbollah, you do not see the Iranian Revolutionary Guard blowing themselves up in pizza parlours because they actually *have* the resources to field armies. Palestinians do not. Do the "Palestinians" have the "resources" to be an independent country? That issue aside, sending hormonal 17 year olds to blow themselves up and kill people at random is barbaric. There is no other side to that story. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Remiel Posted June 11, 2007 Report Posted June 11, 2007 Do the "Palestinians" have the "resources" to be an independent country? Well, if they don't, I guess the operative questions would be " Why not? " and " What should be done about it? " . If the two-state solution cannot work, I guess there is always the one-state solution. Quote
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