Would Canada be pulled into a war with Iran?

[weaponeer]

I think that Britain could still seriously mess with Iran if it had to, even without the US. The last time this happened they had the entire Empire to draw upon, particularly India, but they were also fighting a World War at the time so it kind of evens out. Then they used the equivalent of two divisions to do the job but that was also a different time. Of course, the Soviets came in from the north with two ARMIES. The Shah abdicated and his son was put in charge and we know how that went.

Anyway, if they got a Div from ANZAC (does that exist now?) and one from India again and say two from the UK and maybe some logistical support (Supply, Medical, Communications, etc) from Canada (do we even have a div?) I think they could win the war but would have to get out before it went the way of Iraq. Of course, I doubt if the other Arab nations would be sending hugs and kisses through all of this. There is more to war, in the 21st century, than just the fighting. I mean look at the things happening now because of events a hundred years back. We could end up with another Arab League or Union of Arab States and you think we have problems now? Fortunately (sic), at the moment, if these folks aren’t busy killing us they are busy killing each other but it could happen if there were a catalyst and a real leader with more on his mind than using airliners as missiles. Just a thought.

The Canadian Army could not feild a brigade let alone a Division, thank you libs... We can take on talibs no prob, a well equipped, well trained competent military like Iran, no chance. Idia is not part of the Empire anymore, not really. The Brits could mout and airstrike on Iran, and could do a fair amount of damage. They have a modern well equipped air force, and the Royal Navy has excellent land attack capabilities with their Tomahawk missiles launched from ships & subs. The UK would not be alone, I have no doubt the USA would not pass up a chance to spank Iran.

The USA is the real heavy hitter here. They have and unbelievable powerful air force, they could easily take Iran down a peg or 10. I doubt they would even get much resisitance from back home. Not too many folks in the USA have any love loss fro Iran. No need to invade, Iran has too big a land army anyhow.

[weaponeer]

It is really late, midnight shift wil soon be over. That was field a brigade, and India not inda...

[PolyNewbie]

I hate to be the one to interject facts into an arguement like this. When doing so one always gets accused of being partisan toward one side. One must keep the emotional fires burning to remain rational in an arguemnt like this - or so it seems.

It is the Brits & Americans that are doing this WMD scam on everybody again. The Americans and the Brits are the aggressors in this. When corporate media said that Irans president said he wanted Israel wiped off the map it turned out to be a lie. The WMD's in Iraq turned out to be a lie. The UN has said Iran is no where near having a nuke.

How many times are people willing to be lied to ? What has Iran lied about ?

[scribblet]

Whatever private definition of 'justifiable' you are using to bolster your POV doesn't change the fact that in international law a state is perfectly entitled to detain foreign military forces caught conducting agressive actions within its sovereign territory or waters.

Dass da fax.

No private definition needed, Britain wasn't conducting aggressive actions and was on a U.N. mandated mission, and, has released their co-ordinates.

Iran must believe they stand to gain from this and Britain has no motive to prolong the mess, and surely does not want a military confrontation. Iran is obviously baiting the west but we should be careful about take the bait.

If this is played out correctly, we can probably get more govts "on our side" as Iran is looking increasingly worse in this mess. Maybe Britain should buy Iran a few GPS systems as a goodwill gesture

[Figleaf]

I hate to be the one to interject facts into an arguement like this. When doing so one always gets accused of being partisan toward one side. One must keep the emotional fires burning to remain rational in an arguemnt like this - or so it seems.

Good one!

[Figleaf]

Whatever private definition of 'justifiable' you are using to bolster your POV doesn't change the fact that in international law a state is perfectly entitled to detain foreign military forces caught conducting agressive actions within its sovereign territory or waters.

Dass da fax.

No private definition needed, Britain wasn't conducting aggressive actions and was on a U.N. mandated mission, and, has released their co-ordinates.

You're going off topic. The point of my comment there is not about who to believe in the actual case, but about what the applicable rights and expectations are in the hypothetical case.

And again, I will point out that your post says nothing really except that you choose to believe Britain. Well, you're entitled to that choice, but realize that it IS a CHOICE that you are making in the absence of proof.

[Argus]

Now please note, I'm not saying I believe Iran and disbelieve Britain. I'm saying that we have no way of finding a reasonable certainty on who to believe. The certainty some of you express is, it must be acknowledged, an emotive and non-evidential type of certainty.

I really don't consider it of any importance whether the Brits were on their side, or whether they strayed a little across the imaginary line. In neither event is Iran's behaviour remotely justifiable.

Whatever private definition of 'justifiable' you are using to bolster your POV doesn't change the fact that in international law a state is perfectly entitled to detain foreign military forces caught conducting agressive actions within its sovereign territory or waters.

Dass da fax.

Has there been any indication or suggestion from anyone that they actually conducted any boarding operations within Iranian waters? If not then the "agressive actions" you are speaking of would be "traveling on an inflatable rubber boat."

[Argus]

I hate to be the one to interject facts into an arguement like this.

I don't think any of us here are overly concerned about that happening with regard to your posts.

[Figleaf]

Now please note, I'm not saying I believe Iran and disbelieve Britain. I'm saying that we have no way of finding a reasonable certainty on who to believe. The certainty some of you express is, it must be acknowledged, an emotive and non-evidential type of certainty.

I really don't consider it of any importance whether the Brits were on their side, or whether they strayed a little across the imaginary line. In neither event is Iran's behaviour remotely justifiable.

Whatever private definition of 'justifiable' you are using to bolster your POV doesn't change the fact that in international law a state is perfectly entitled to detain foreign military forces caught conducting agressive actions within its sovereign territory or waters.

Dass da fax.

Has there been any indication or suggestion from anyone that they actually conducted any boarding operations within Iranian waters?

Your question has no bearing on the point I was making.

The answer to your question is that the Iranians are saying they were in Iranian waters.

Whichever waters they were in, they were engaged in the aggressive act of armed boarding of civilian shipping. Legitimately, if in Iraqi waters, illegitimately if in Iranian waters.

[Leafless]

It has been reported that Britain will be sending a special envoy to Teheran to try to settle the issue.

"Support for the captives came as ministers prepared a compromise deal to allow Iran to save face by promising that the Royal Navy will never knowingly enter Iranian waters without permission.

The Sunday Telegraph has learnt of plans to send a Royal Navy captain or commodore to Teheran, as a special envoy of the Government, to deliver a public assurance that officials hope will end the diplomatic standoff."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...01/wiran301.xml

[Argus]

Has there been any indication or suggestion from anyone that they actually conducted any boarding operations within Iranian waters?

Your question has no bearing on the point I was making.

Of course it does, in the part you deleted.

The answer to your question is that the Iranians are saying they were in Iranian waters.

Yes, doing what?

Whichever waters they were in, they were engaged in the aggressive act of armed boarding of civilian shipping.

Were they? What if they were simply travelling from the Iraqi ship they boarded in Iraqi waters, and happened to cross over into Iranian waters? I haven't heard the Iranians complain they were boarding ships in their waters - and I'm pretty sure I would have. So far all they're accusing them of is trespassing, ie, floating around in inflatable rubber rafts. How does that meet your "conducting aggressive actions" statement?

[Figleaf]

The answer to your question is that the Iranians are saying they were in Iranian waters.

Yes, doing what?

You can read the news somewhat, can't you?

What if they were simply travelling from the Iraqi ship they boarded in Iraqi waters, and happened to cross over into Iranian waters?

Well, that's a novel suggestion. It seems like it would have required them to take a rather strange and pointless side trip for that to be the case.

I haven't heard the Iranians complain they were boarding ships in their waters - and I'm pretty sure I would have.

I think you're mistaken. I believe the Iranians specifically said they were questioning the British about their 'aggressive action', in reference to the boarding.

[Keepitsimple]

Diplomacy is always the first line of defence....and I suggest we send Danny Williams over with his Megaphone. He'll sort things out.

[moderateamericain]

I think that Britain could still seriously mess with Iran if it had to, even without the US. The last time this happened they had the entire Empire to draw upon, particularly India, but they were also fighting a World War at the time so it kind of evens out. Then they used the equivalent of two divisions to do the job but that was also a different time. Of course, the Soviets came in from the north with two ARMIES. The Shah abdicated and his son was put in charge and we know how that went.

Anyway, if they got a Div from ANZAC (does that exist now?) and one from India again and say two from the UK and maybe some logistical support (Supply, Medical, Communications, etc) from Canada (do we even have a div?) I think they could win the war but would have to get out before it went the way of Iraq. Of course, I doubt if the other Arab nations would be sending hugs and kisses through all of this. There is more to war, in the 21st century, than just the fighting. I mean look at the things happening now because of events a hundred years back. We could end up with another Arab League or Union of Arab States and you think we have problems now? Fortunately (sic), at the moment, if these folks aren’t busy killing us they are busy killing each other but it could happen if there were a catalyst and a real leader with more on his mind than using airliners as missiles. Just a thought.

The Canadian Army could not feild a brigade let alone a Division, thank you libs... We can take on talibs no prob, a well equipped, well trained competent military like Iran, no chance. Idia is not part of the Empire anymore, not really. The Brits could mout and airstrike on Iran, and could do a fair amount of damage. They have a modern well equipped air force, and the Royal Navy has excellent land attack capabilities with their Tomahawk missiles launched from ships & subs. The UK would not be alone, I have no doubt the USA would not pass up a chance to spank Iran.

The USA is the real heavy hitter here. They have and unbelievable powerful air force, they could easily take Iran down a peg or 10. I doubt they would even get much resisitance from back home. Not too many folks in the USA have any love loss fro Iran. No need to invade, Iran has too big a land army anyhow.

Are you kidding me, the Canadian army could handle Iran's piss ant army alone. The Iranians have a shit army, Canada cross trains with the USA all the time. hell half your equipment is tried and true American shit. Not that it matters its all made in China anyhow. If England and by extension Canada wanted to mix it up with Iran, it could handle the matter quickly and effectively, to make a joke out of it "Your missiles would blot out the sun."

[Figleaf]

Are you kidding me, the Canadian army could handle Iran's piss ant army alone. The Iranians have a shit army, Canada cross trains with the USA all the time. hell half your equipment is tried and true American shit. Not that it matters its all made in China anyhow. If England and by extension Canada wanted to mix it up with Iran, it could handle the matter quickly and effectively, to make a joke out of it "Your missiles would blot out the sun."

Pure fantasy.

Canada's navy could beat the Iranian navy, probably.

Man for man, rifle for rifle, I'd put reg force Canadians up against ANY other country's reg forces and count on Canada to win. But Iran has a much larger army.

I the air, right now Canada and Iran's equipment are mostly of the same vintage. Iran has some newer equipment and Canada has yet to take delivery of its new aircraft. Tough call in the air.

[blueblood]

Are you kidding me, the Canadian army could handle Iran's piss ant army alone. The Iranians have a shit army, Canada cross trains with the USA all the time. hell half your equipment is tried and true American shit. Not that it matters its all made in China anyhow. If England and by extension Canada wanted to mix it up with Iran, it could handle the matter quickly and effectively, to make a joke out of it "Your missiles would blot out the sun."

Pure fantasy.

Canada's navy could beat the Iranian navy, probably.

Man for man, rifle for rifle, I'd put reg force Canadians up against ANY other country's reg forces and count on Canada to win. But Iran has a much larger army.

I the air, right now Canada and Iran's equipment are mostly of the same vintage. Iran has some newer equipment and Canada has yet to take delivery of its new aircraft. Tough call in the air.

Are we doing some hodge podge invasion or is this a flat out war where they can come and invade Canada as well?

I heard somewhere on the forum that we can't even field a wing of fighter aircraft. If we were to beat Iran in a fictional war it would be through superior generalling and fighting on an area of our choosing, or if we wanted to go the long route, a nice war of attrition involving besieging the entire country (no one gets in, no one gets out).

[Figleaf]

Are you kidding me, the Canadian army could handle Iran's piss ant army alone. The Iranians have a shit army, Canada cross trains with the USA all the time. hell half your equipment is tried and true American shit. Not that it matters its all made in China anyhow. If England and by extension Canada wanted to mix it up with Iran, it could handle the matter quickly and effectively, to make a joke out of it "Your missiles would blot out the sun."

Pure fantasy.

Canada's navy could beat the Iranian navy, probably.

Man for man, rifle for rifle, I'd put reg force Canadians up against ANY other country's reg forces and count on Canada to win. But Iran has a much larger army.

I the air, right now Canada and Iran's equipment are mostly of the same vintage. Iran has some newer equipment and Canada has yet to take delivery of its new aircraft. Tough call in the air.

Are we doing some hodge podge invasion or is this a flat out war where they can come and invade Canada as well?

I heard somewhere on the forum that we can't even field a wing of fighter aircraft. If we were to beat Iran in a fictional war it would be through superior generalling and fighting on an area of our choosing, or if we wanted to go the long route, a nice war of attrition involving besieging the entire country (no one gets in, no one gets out).

I was assuming we were talking about Canada attacking Iran, but somehow magically deploying our whole military there.

[weaponeer]

Are you kidding me, the Canadian army could handle Iran's piss ant army alone. The Iranians have a shit army, Canada cross trains with the USA all the time. hell half your equipment is tried and true American shit. Not that it matters its all made in China anyhow. If England and by extension Canada wanted to mix it up with Iran, it could handle the matter quickly and effectively, to make a joke out of it "Your missiles would blot out the sun."

Pure fantasy.

Canada's navy could beat the Iranian navy, probably.

Man for man, rifle for rifle, I'd put reg force Canadians up against ANY other country's reg forces and count on Canada to win. But Iran has a much larger army.

I the air, right now Canada and Iran's equipment are mostly of the same vintage. Iran has some newer equipment and Canada has yet to take delivery of its new aircraft. Tough call in the air.

Are we doing some hodge podge invasion or is this a flat out war where they can come and invade Canada as well?

I heard somewhere on the forum that we can't even field a wing of fighter aircraft. If we were to beat Iran in a fictional war it would be through superior generalling and fighting on an area of our choosing, or if we wanted to go the long route, a nice war of attrition involving besieging the entire country (no one gets in, no one gets out).

I was assuming we were talking about Canada attacking Iran, but somehow magically deploying our whole military there.

Canada would not stand a chance alone agaist Iran as it stands now, or any other modern equipped military. There is a big difference between chasing talibs around Afghanistan and fighting a tank division.

The Canadian navy could take on the Iran navy, and win however the Iraainians would not use thier navy, they would most likely attack with thier revolutionary guard navy. Fanatics in small boats. The nav has no real defence against a swarm or small boat full of nut cases with RPGs. Hope a Seaking crashes on them, that's about it.....

Our army is good, most likely some of the best infantry in the world, however they lack modern tanks, enough modern artillery, not enough air defence arty to handle Iran, and not nearly enough troops to be able to fight the Iranian army, and win. he key point is "and win". We could invade China if we wanted, but we would not win. Our army is good, but we have not gone up against a technically equal military since WW2. That makes a big difference.

Our airforce, I am airforce, I can say we'd be in over our heads. Iran has a faily good airforce, and they are a combat force unlike ours. They actually have planes that can attack, unlike us. They have several fighter wings, we don't even have 1. We have two on paper only. A fighter wing is 3 squadrons, 24 jets each = 72. We only have 80 fighters total, and 25 are dedicated to training. We do not have a combat capable fighter wing. We could send some jets to Afghanistan for CAS, but Iran would be more than a CAS tasking.... We have no combat helicopters at all. Our new chinooks will be great, but they are transport helos, we need attack helos....

The best we could do for our allies in Iran is stay out of the way in Afghanistan, and wish them luck.... unless someone wants to spend big time $$$ on the military, unless someone in Canada finally wants to get SERIOUS about the military, not going to happen......

[moderateamericain]

Are you kidding me, the Canadian army could handle Iran's piss ant army alone. The Iranians have a shit army, Canada cross trains with the USA all the time. hell half your equipment is tried and true American shit. Not that it matters its all made in China anyhow. If England and by extension Canada wanted to mix it up with Iran, it could handle the matter quickly and effectively, to make a joke out of it "Your missiles would blot out the sun."

Pure fantasy.

Canada's navy could beat the Iranian navy, probably.

Man for man, rifle for rifle, I'd put reg force Canadians up against ANY other country's reg forces and count on Canada to win. But Iran has a much larger army.

I the air, right now Canada and Iran's equipment are mostly of the same vintage. Iran has some newer equipment and Canada has yet to take delivery of its new aircraft. Tough call in the air.

Are we doing some hodge podge invasion or is this a flat out war where they can come and invade Canada as well?

I heard somewhere on the forum that we can't even field a wing of fighter aircraft. If we were to beat Iran in a fictional war it would be through superior generalling and fighting on an area of our choosing, or if we wanted to go the long route, a nice war of attrition involving besieging the entire country (no one gets in, no one gets out).

I was assuming we were talking about Canada attacking Iran, but somehow magically deploying our whole military there.

Canada would not stand a chance alone agaist Iran as it stands now, or any other modern equipped military. There is a big difference between chasing talibs around Afghanistan and fighting a tank division.

The Canadian navy could take on the Iran navy, and win however the Iraainians would not use thier navy, they would most likely attack with thier revolutionary guard navy. Fanatics in small boats. The nav has no real defence against a swarm or small boat full of nut cases with RPGs. Hope a Seaking crashes on them, that's about it.....

Our army is good, most likely some of the best infantry in the world, however they lack modern tanks, enough modern artillery, not enough air defence arty to handle Iran, and not nearly enough troops to be able to fight the Iranian army, and win. he key point is "and win". We could invade China if we wanted, but we would not win. Our army is good, but we have not gone up against a technically equal military since WW2. That makes a big difference.

Our airforce, I am airforce, I can say we'd be in over our heads. Iran has a faily good airforce, and they are a combat force unlike ours. They actually have planes that can attack, unlike us. They have several fighter wings, we don't even have 1. We have two on paper only. A fighter wing is 3 squadrons, 24 jets each = 72. We only have 80 fighters total, and 25 are dedicated to training. We do not have a combat capable fighter wing. We could send some jets to Afghanistan for CAS, but Iran would be more than a CAS tasking.... We have no combat helicopters at all. Our new chinooks will be great, but they are transport helos, we need attack helos....

The best we could do for our allies in Iran is stay out of the way in Afghanistan, and wish them luck.... unless someone wants to spend big time $$$ on the military, unless someone in Canada finally wants to get SERIOUS about the military, not going to happen......

Regardless, i have more respect for Canadian training then i do Iranian Hardware. Training will beat hardware any day of the week. Theres more than one way to stop a tank. I am optimistic that Canada could take em if they needed too.

I dont know how reliable this is but look at this old junk they are using

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_of_the_Iranian_Army

I have no doubt anything made in Iran is probably junk.

[gc1765]

With Iran, you'd hardly need an invasion. We should destabilize their government (cruise missile on Iran's government place during a sitting) and let this mysterious democratic youth uprising I hear so much from the left on happen.

Bombing their country is not exactly going to encourage people to want a pro-western government.

[weaponeer]

Problem is our equip has been rotted out by years of gov't and senior military leadership neglect, training or not we could not last. Attached to US/UK units, using thier equip, we would have a go at it.

That being said, if asked I would love to take a shot at Iran. These twits have it coming.....

[gc1765]

The USA is the only country that can handle Iran, with some help from Britian if it wanted. The American Army is heavily tied down in Iraq & Afghanistan, however US Air Force and US Navy combat units are not heavily tasked at all. If the US launched an all out airstrike, they could reduce the nuke threat from Iran to zero, and reduce the Iraininan military to an "also ran".

That would just encourage them further.

See my signature.

[PolyNewbie]

We were in Iraq, the army is pretty much completely integrated with this American Union thing. We would be in Iran.

Remember when the corps bought up all the newpapers in the nineties ? Ever wonder why ? Its to prevent you from seeing the NAU. Soon they will own the country and you if you don't wake up and stop reading the corporate propoganda.