What does it mean to be Canadian?

[bush_cheney2004]

the quote was "Order and homogeneity, a society where we all look alike and think alike... gawd how boring."

Of course the topic is diversity (racial and otherwise), by "looking alike" is interpretable as (being of the same race/ethnicity), everyone knows what is meant by that sentence, you can pretend to read something other in it... but

But such attributes are inherently weak and subject to failure compared to more diverse population "networks". Sameness is great for very simple human processes, but not the complexities of human social existence. Even within a "homogeneous" population we will find diversity, because it is a stronger, more flexible relationship of language, custom, art, etc. able to not only withstand change, but actually thrive on such change.

[M.Dancer]

i asked you a rather straightforward question: to list the SPECIFIC CONCRETE STRENGTHS WE WOULD NOT HAVE IF IT WERE NOT FOR DIVERSITY (diversity of the kind we are asked to celebrate: i.e. RACIAL/ETHNIC diversity)

The biggest and most important value we have gained is the ability to see, understand and to think different from if we had no exposure to other cultures.

You have to remember the biggest albatross that landed on the shoulder of your idols the Nazis is culturally they were retards. While the US was assimilating the vibrancy of the world (which for whatever reasons included relativity, Klezmar and dixie land jazz) , the Nazis were stagnant and could not envision a future without fear, violence and death.

[g_bambino]

the quote was "Order and homogeneity, a society where we all look alike and think alike... gawd how boring."

That's right, never was it said that "white people are boring". That claim was your own creative addition. I read nothing more in lily's words than what they said: homogeneity is bland.

[lily]

What do you mean by "look alike"? specifically

What did you mean, specifically... since it was you that brought it up.

i asked you a rather straightforward question: to list the SPECIFIC CONCRETE STRENGTHS WE WOULD NOT HAVE IF IT WERE NOT FOR DIVERSITY (diversity of the kind we are asked to celebrate: i.e. RACIAL/ETHNIC diversity)

To be honest... when I think of strengths... things people bring to the country... I don't really think about what colour they are.

Why are you all squicked out about racial and ethnic diversity, anyway?

[lictor616]

The biggest and most important value we have gained is the ability to see, understand and to think different from if we had no exposure to other cultures.

You have to remember the biggest albatross that landed on the shoulder of your idols the Nazis is culturally they were retards. While the US was assimilating the vibrancy of the world (which for whatever reasons included relativity, Klezmar and dixie land jazz) , the Nazis were stagnant and could not envision a future without fear, violence and death.

Is exposure to other cultures always beneficial? I mean sure it can be educational, like picking up a rock and watching what was under it, but its not clear what beneficial applications there are for our own purposes.

Also, its not the most authentic way of experiencing "cultures", the surest way is to travel and see the authentic context from which they came from.

And notice of course that that is not in itself "CONCRETE SPECIFIC STRENGTH".

Racial diversity you say Dancer is supposed to bring "cultural enrichment" to us, but what are its real achievements? The culture of the average Canadian remains almost completely untouched by the millions of non-white immigrants who have arrived since the seventies. Perhaps they have now heard of ceremonial Kirpan dagger of the Sikhs, but even if they live in the GTA or Montreal how many Canadians know that it represents the power to cut through the deception of foreign people (ie canadians).

Immigrants do not teach us Canadians about Cervantes or the Ramayana or Lady Murasaki and it would be silly to think they did. Chinese coolies in Richmond do not arrive with a curator's knowledge of Ming ceramics and copies of the Tao-te Ching in their pockets. The one cultural artifact immigrants bring with them is their language--which increasingly becomes an bastardized farrago that would astonish their countrymen.

[bush_cheney2004]

....You have to remember the biggest albatross that landed on the shoulder of your idols the Nazis is culturally they were retards. While the US was assimilating the vibrancy of the world (which for whatever reasons included relativity, Klezmar and dixie land jazz) , the Nazis were stagnant and could not envision a future without fear, violence and death.

Agreed...in the end, they embraced a value that became their greatest weakness. Alloys are stronger than pure metals.

[lictor616]

The biggest and most important value we have gained is the ability to see, understand and to think different from if we had no exposure to other cultures.

You have to remember the biggest albatross that landed on the shoulder of your idols the Nazis is culturally they were retards. While the US was assimilating the vibrancy of the world (which for whatever reasons included relativity, Klezmar and dixie land jazz) , the Nazis were stagnant and could not envision a future without fear, violence and death.

And the Nazi's were busy dominating the sciences, and making advances in all aspects of technology that the US could not even conceive of. The Nazi's also had zero unemployment, minimal crime, a very strong sense of community. Culturally, Germany was VASTLY, VASTLY richer then the United States at the time... Germany was making tremendous architectural leaps, just look at some of the work of the genius Albert Speer... and look at some of his maquettes,

(http://blog.miragestudio7.com/wp-content/uploads2/2007/07/albert_speer_dome_domed_hall_hitler_architect2.jpg)

Also read on what the Nazi's thought of "Entartete Musik und Kunst", they actually are sympathetic to the blacks, which where then treated as second class citizens and used as puppets to dance and prance at the pleasure of the White superclass.

again though... you just had to resort to Godwin's law for the umpteenth time Dancer, would it be too much to ask to have you switch it up a bit... it's getting played out...

[bush_cheney2004]

And the Nazi's were busy dominating the sciences, and making advances in all aspects of technology that the US could not even conceive of. The Nazi's also had zero unemployment, minimal crime, a very strong sense of community. Culturally, Germany was VASTLY, VASTLY richer then the United States at the time... Germany was making tremendous architectural leaps, just look at some of the work of the genius Albert Speer... and look at some of his maquettes,

That's great...but they still lost to mere "mongrels". (PS .... Goddard was an American)

[benny]

The baseline for thinking about multiculturalism and national identity is I think the Roman Empire.

[lily]

Is exposure to other cultures always beneficial? I mean sure it can be educational, like picking up a rock and watching what was under it, but its not clear what beneficial applications there are for our own purposes.

Also, its not the most authentic way of experiencing "cultures", the surest way is to travel and see the authentic context from which they came from.

And notice of course that that is not in itself "CONCRETE SPECIFIC STRENGTH".

Racial diversity you say Dancer is supposed to bring "cultural enrichment" to us, but what are its real achievements? The culture of the average Canadian remains almost completely untouched by the millions of non-white immigrants who have arrived since the seventies. Perhaps they have now heard of ceremonial Kirpan dagger of the Sikhs, but even if they live in the GTA or Montreal how many Canadians know that it represents the power to cut through the deception of foreign people (ie canadians).

Immigrants do not teach us Canadians about Cervantes or the Ramayana or Lady Murasaki and it would be silly to think they did. Chinese coolies in Richmond do not arrive with a curator's knowledge of Ming ceramics and copies of the Tao-te Ching in their pockets. The one cultural artifact immigrants bring with them is their language--which increasingly becomes an bastardized farrago that would astonish their countrymen.

Chinese coolies in Richmond? Right there, you lost all credibility for me.

And the Nazi's were busy dominating the sciences, and making advances in all aspects of technology that the US could not even conceive of. The Nazi's also had zero unemployment, minimal crime, a very strong sense of community. Culturally, Germany was VASTLY, VASTLY richer then the United States at the time... Germany was making tremendous architectural leaps, just look at some of the work of the genius Albert Speer... and look at some of his maquettes,

(http://blog.miragestudio7.com/wp-content/uploads2/2007/07/albert_speer_dome_domed_hall_hitler_architect2.jpg)

Also read on what the Nazi's thought of "Entartete Musik und Kunst", they actually are sympathetic to the blacks, which where then treated as second class citizens and used as puppets to dance and prance at the pleasure of the White superclass.

again though... you just had to resort to Godwin's law for the umpteenth time Dancer, would it be too much to ask to have you switch it up a bit... it's getting played out...

You were all but begging for this thread to be godwinned, lictor. I'm surprised it took as long as it did.

Interesting that you mention how the Nazis were dominating the sciences though. Have you thought about HOW they were doing so? Here's one example. Thanks to the Nazis, we know how long a person can live without food, because they made thorough studies, using their prisoners. Don't worry though.. it's ok. They didn't use people that looked and thought like they did, so it was all good. I guess there's one advantage of diversity, eh?

I suddenly feel all icky.

[benny]

Interesting that you mention how the Nazis were dominating the sciences though. Have you thought about HOW they were doing so? Here's one example. Thanks to the Nazis, we know how long a person can live without food, because they made thorough studies, using their prisoners. Don't worry though.. it's ok. They didn't use people that looked and thought like they did, so it was all good. I guess there's one advantage of diversity, eh?

I suddenly feel all icky.

If there was one good thing about Nazism is that it was not believing neither in science nor in progress.

[lictor616]

That's great...but they still lost to mere "mongrels". (PS .... Goddard was an American)

they lost to Russians (nordic europeans with a Slav admixture) allied with Britain (celtic nordic european), America (who i'm sure you will remember were half German: the largest European group in the US at the time where German Americans), and many other Allied European nation...

In other words it took the entire world to "win"... but this has no relationship with the question of diversity posed earlier.

[benny]

they lost to Russians (nordic europeans with a Slav admixture) allied with Britain (celtic nordic european), America (who i'm sure you will remember were half German: the largest European group in the US at the time where German Americans), and many other Allied European nation...

In other words it took the entire world to "win"... but this has no relationship with the question of diversity posed earlier.

It took only one Jew (Karl Marx) rather to make the world become socialist (and Germany to become National Socialist).

[bush_cheney2004]

they lost to Russians (nordic europeans with a Slav admixture) allied with Britain (celtic nordic european), America (who i'm sure you will remember were half German: the largest European group in the US at the time where German Americans), and many other Allied European nation...

Largest group is not important...greatest diversity is. Why did all those Germans leave for America?

In other words it took the entire world to "win"... but this has no relationship with the question of diversity posed earlier.

Correct....but win they did. Similar single minded folk in Japan also learned this lesson the hard way.

[benny]

Largest group is not important...greatest diversity is. Why did all those Germans leave for America?

A vast army of desperate mercenaries is what the US have in common with the Roman Empire.

[lictor616]

Interesting that you mention how the Nazis were dominating the sciences though. Have you thought about HOW they were doing so? Here's one example. Thanks to the Nazis, we know how long a person can live without food, because they made thorough studies, using their prisoners. Don't worry though.. it's ok. They didn't use people that looked and thought like they did, so it was all good. I guess there's one advantage of diversity, eh?

I suddenly feel all icky.

Scientific studies on "the capacity to live without food" antedates Nazism by at least 2 centuries.... read up on the "sick and hurt board" on British naval health... many tests where made and countless British scientific papers where produced with very accurate results. the Nazis and every European nation already knew exactly all they needed on human food tolerances. why I don't suppose you have a link right? There are lots of "testimonials" on "nazi science"... many of which is unverifiable and just plain defamatory. We all heard the nazi mattresses made from jewish hair, jewish soap etc... ad infinitam.

Your simply saying this as an ad hominem attack on me... why not stick to the subject instead, and if you don't wish to respond... simply say so..

[lictor616]

Largest group is not important...greatest diversity is. Why did all those Germans leave for America?

Correct....but win they did. Similar single minded folk in Japan also learned this lesson the hard way.

Greatest diversity? are you implying that the US army at the time was a cozy little multi hued rainbow of people... indians, Mongolians, Veiled muslim women, tamil tiger americans (who where permitted to wear turban instead of helmet as canadian construction workers are), mestizo americans? Delusional much?

[benny]

Scientific studies on "the capacity to live without food" antedates Nazism by at least 2 centuries.... read up on the "sick and hurt board" on British naval health... many tests where made and countless British scientific papers where produced with very accurate results. the Nazis and every European nation already knew exactly all they needed on human food tolerances. why I don't suppose you have a link right? There are lots of "testimonials" on "nazi science"... many of which is unverifiable and just plain defamatory. We all heard the nazi mattresses made from jewish hair, jewish soap etc... ad infinitam.

What is original about Nazism is its desire to regress to the time where German mythology (Odin, Thor, etc.) was all-powerful.

[bush_cheney2004]

Greatest diversity? are you implying that the US army at the time was a cozy little multi hued rainbow of people... indians, Mongolians, Veiled muslim women, tamil tiger americans (who where permitted to wear turban instead of helmet as canadian construction workers are), mestizo americans? Delusional much?

America was far more than the "US army".....but you already knew that. Such singular thinking will get you nowhere....think more "diversely" !

[lily]

Scientific studies on "the capacity to live without food" antedates Nazism by at least 2 centuries.... read up on the "sick and hurt board" on British naval health... many tests where made and countless British scientific papers where produced with very accurate results. the Nazis and every European nation already knew exactly all they needed on human food tolerances. why I don't suppose you have a link right? There are lots of "testimonials" on "nazi science"... many of which is unverifiable and just plain defamatory. We all heard the nazi mattresses made from jewish hair, jewish soap etc... ad infinitam.

Your simply saying this as an ad hominem attack on me... why not stick to the subject instead, and if you don't wish to respond... simply say so..

No link.... it was from a seminar I recently attended.

Accusations of an ad hominem attack, particularly lame ones, are one rung removed from godwinning a thread.

[bush_cheney2004]

A vast army of desperate mercenaries is what the US have in common with the Roman Empire.

And so you define what it is to be a Canadian?

[benny]

America was far more than the "US army".....but you already knew that. Such singular thinking will get you nowhere....think more "diversely" !

America was a part of the plethoric New World that is now distributing food stamps to over 10% of its population.

[bush_cheney2004]

America was a part of the plethoric New World that is now distributing food stamps to over 10% of its population.

.....this is why you come to "America".

[M.Dancer]

Agreed...in the end, they embraced a value that became their greatest weakness. Alloys are stronger than pure metals.

And in fact, the mongrel US is evn stronger now than then.

ALLAH AKBAR!

[benny]

.....this is why you come to "America".

I don't think so!