Eisenhowers warning came true

[bush_cheney2004]

i'm not praising eisenhower for anything he did, all i am saying is the title of my thread

OK...it is pure fiction. We have both guns and butter in large supply.

[obsidian]

cheney what are some canadian issues you think i should be paying attention to then?

[bush_cheney2004]

cheney what are some canadian issues you think i should be paying attention to then?

Plenty to choose from....you obsess on America while ignoring domestic issues. America is just a more exciting train wreck to watch.

[BC_chick]

3) If you are not a US citizen, there is little you can do about "US policy". Even the citizens only get one vote....same as in Canada.

1) This is a thread under the "US Politics" forum, so I hate to break it to you, but "US politics" is fair game here.

2) If people only were allowed to discuss countries in which they can vote, you need to never again discuss the politics of any other countries, including any country in the ME, Africa, Europe, SA, etc etc. Something tells me, however, that you are not prepared to practice what you preach.

3) If US politics are the business of nobody but American citizens who are eligible to vote, then they have no right to go around the world meddling in other country's politics. But then again, look at the last fifty years and you'll see differently.

IOW, America should do what it wants, say what they want, go as far as overthrowing regimes, killing leaders, sponsoring militias and so on all over the world..... but God Forbid anybody discusses any of THEIR politics.

Is that what you believe?

[Canadian Blue]

i just think its sad that people have been warning us for decades (eisenhower) and nothing has hindered it from happening.

and there's nothing wrong with sports, im on team ontarios football team. i just thought it was odd that you would mention that giving the subject we are talking on.

sports, drugs, sex, among others things are all used to fill a void that we have. they are very much bandaid fixes, which i don't think is right.

They made a documentary on it.

For the love of god, capitalize son!!!

[bush_cheney2004]

IOW, America should do what it wants, say what they want, go as far as overthrowing regimes, killing leaders, sponsoring militias and so on all over the world..... but God Forbid anybody discusses any of THEIR politics.

Is that what you believe?

No, I believe exactly what I posted. Obsidian is not an American citizen and does not have the right to vote in US federal elections. He/she can post an opinion on whatever he/she pleases...and that is all it will ever be. American foreign policy will not be altered.

Actually, there is very little discussion of US Politics on this forum....more like US Domestic/Foreign Policy.

And if you think Canada's hands are not dirty over the past 50 or even 100 years, you choose to ignore the obvious. God Save the Queen and all that jazz.

Let's go bomb some Serbs again to protect Human Rights!

[guyser]

He/she can post an opinion on whatever he/she pleases...and that is all it will ever be. American foreign policy will not be altered.

I am thinking you might be misreading some of this.

American foreign policy needs revamping. Current Bush should take a lesson from Daddy Bush, as he knew how to get foreign policy done in an efficient and less " ham handed" way. (thus Baker coming back)

But what I think you truely miss , or forget it seems , is how big and powerful your country is. You are the elephant in the room. Does not matter who else is in there, there will only be one elephant. As such, the mouse (guess who that is) should and is always concerned when the elephant moves.

Your country has lobbied our govt hard to NOT de-criminalize marijauna, even though every credible report suggests the reasons for , not to mention the reasons why, are historically innaccurate. There is the policy currently being enacted for passports being required by anyone wanting to come in, or get back in, the USA. Granted, they are your borders to protect and that is all well and fine, but as canucks we can see that the same proviso is not universally applied should one look at the Mexican border. With 20M illegals in your country your president only wants to be seen doing something, not actually doing anything to stem the tide at the source.

With the exception of Reza (LA airport) not a single terrorist has come down thru our borders, although there are plenty of Americans who think they all came from here. Fine, stupidity is not unknown in either country, we can agree on that.

But then quick spouting Goveners and elected officials blame Canada for plenty of things, and one particularly galling one was the massive blackout.

Of course foreign policy is to protect USA interests , but some semblance of fairness including the result of unfairly positioning USA companies should be on the table. If it is the right thing to do, it should be the thing that gets done. Too often that is not the case.This of course goes both ways.

[bush_cheney2004]

But what I think you truely miss , or forget it seems , is how big and powerful your country is. You are the elephant in the room. Does not matter who else is in there, there will only be one elephant. As such, the mouse (guess who that is) should and is always concerned when the elephant moves.

Your country has lobbied our govt hard to NOT de-criminalize marijauna, even though every credible report suggests the reasons for , not to mention the reasons why, are historically innaccurate. There is the policy currently being enacted for passports being required by anyone wanting to come in, or get back in, the USA. Granted, they are your borders to protect and that is all well and fine, but as canucks we can see that the same proviso is not universally applied should one look at the Mexican border. With 20M illegals in your country your president only wants to be seen doing something, not actually doing anything to stem the tide at the source.

Actually, the original Bush/Baker policies for the forward presence of US forces (particularly in Saudi) led to today's circumstances with respect to "infidels" on holy land. PMs Blair and Howard agreed that when given lemons (9/11), one should make lemonade.

You have stated the obvious only to argue with same. When the Americans are accused of "permitting" terrorists and illegal aliens (including those from Canada) to enter freely, steps to thwart illegal entry are met with derision. If the international standard is a valid passport, then one had damn well get one on either side of the border. Like Mexicans, Canadians do not have unfettered rights to enter the United States and curiously act with indignation when treated identically. Stopping illegal immigrants is a huge political issue in the US, regardless of Canada's perspective.

I work in the US on an IT team with many H1B visa holders from several nations....Canada, Pakistan, India, Russia, and Taiwan. The Canadians, through language and custom, assume an advantage over the others. It is funny to listen to them jockey for green-card status and superiority.

Canada (and her racist Commonwealth) took measures to criminalize cannabis at the federal level years before the United States. If you wish to go the way of Scandanavia, please do so at once with my blessing. And live with the consequences. Next you will insist that the Americans honor same gender marriages. The elephant may not be convinced

Mice have choices and decisions to make.....the elephant must do the exact same thing. I am fairly sure that 2004's "Canadians for Kerry" should not be welcomed any more than "Americans for Harper" would be welcomed today.

[guyser]

Actually, the original Bush/Baker policies for the forward presence of US forces (particularly in Saudi) led to today's circumstances with respect to "infidels" on holy land. PMs Blair and Howard agreed that when given lemons (9/11), one should make lemonade.

What you failed to percieve or I failed to convey, is that Baker et al were smart enough, as was Bush Sr., to do a pre-emptive tour to gather the good will to take into a fight. Once everyone is on board with the situation it makes it far easier to get thgings done.

Having Rumsfeld go on tour telling people this is what will be done gets one exactly where they are now. With not much support. That was the difference.

You have stated the obvious only to argue with same. When the Americans are accused of "permitting" terrorists and illegal aliens (including those from Canada) to enter freely, steps to thwart illegal entry are met with derision. If the international standard is a valid passport, then one had damn well get one on either side of the border.

I am guessing by your tone you dont want to discuss but rather try and school one? Is that fair enough? Illegal aliens from Canada ? Yes, such a problem. Care to show us where they are coming from? Because it sure isnt CDA. Last report suggested 6% of illegals come from Canada AND Europe combined. Lets then look at that. 6%...pretty small but none theless it is 6%. As CDN citizens it has always been acceptable to both countries immigration to allow access based on a driver licence or birth cert. But they would not be illegal now would they? Perhaps illegals came thru Canada, and thus a passport is needed to get in here and to your country.

The harm to border states economy is not to be taken lightly. And considering how few Americans get passports compared to Canada is cause for concern for both countries.

But you are absolutely correct in that US can do whatever they want as respects thier borders

Like Mexicans, Canadians do not have unfettered rights to enter the United States and curiously act with indignation when treated identically. Stopping illegal immigrants is a huge political issue in the US, regardless of Canada's perspective.

Ok that last one is funny. First, no one has said we have unfettered rights to enter. So dont waste ink on that one.

Stopping illegal immigration is not on anyones agenda in Washington , and if it is, it is at a low level. The President himself was in Mexico last week promising the Mex Pres he would personally work towards an amnesty of Mex illegals. He allows ICE no money to fight the problem. State Police know better than to bother arresting Mexican illegals for car accidents or failure to have proper documents as they know ICE will not come pick them up and the States cannot afford to house them until they do. Illegals hang out at every Home Depot in the south, yet no one rounds them up. Why? The govt of the US has not enacted law preventing or punishing the hiring of illegals which in the short term , as ICE knows the companies that are using them, would put a quick stop to it.Big healthy fines and jail terms to the Pres of Home Depot might be a good warning shot, but you and I both know they wont.

So this is all either grandstanding to "look" better , but underneath it all it is smoke and mirrors. The end result is exactly as you stated. We will have to get a passport or not enter. It is cut and dried. What isnt is the reasoning behind it. Can you see that ?

Canada (and her racist Commonwealth) took measures to criminalize cannabis at the federal level years before the United States. If you wish to go the way of Scandanavia, please do so at once with my blessing. And live with the consequences. Next you will insist that the Americans honor same gender marriages. The elephant may not be convinced

True, we enacted earlier , but it wasnt until the 1960's that arrests were made. And live with what consequences? There really isnt any to be worried about. It will not incur more social ills , and any that do crop up can be paid thru the associated sin tax.

"Racist Commonwealth" ...where does that come from and why? Trying to stir it up or is there some significance behind it?

[bush_cheney2004]

What you failed to percieve or I failed to convey, is that Baker et al were smart enough, as was Bush Sr., to do a pre-emptive tour to gather the good will to take into a fight. Once everyone is on board with the situation it makes it far easier to get thgings done.

Having Rumsfeld go on tour telling people this is what will be done gets one exactly where they are now. With not much support. That was the difference.

Irrelevant....PMs Blair and Howard both sanctioned and supported the plan and run-up to to the invasion. Indeed, PM Chretien was prepared to go with only UN approval...no sales job necessary from Rumsfeld. Gulf War I was a much harder sell than the Invasion of Iraq, especially in the US Congress.

I am guessing by your tone you dont want to discuss but rather try and school one? Is that fair enough? Illegal aliens from Canada ? Yes, such a problem. Care to show us where they are coming from? Because it sure isnt CDA. Last report suggested 6% of illegals come from Canada AND Europe combined. Lets then look at that. 6%...pretty small but none theless it is 6%. As CDN citizens it has always been acceptable to both countries immigration to allow access based on a driver licence or birth cert. But they would not be illegal now would they? Perhaps illegals came thru Canada, and thus a passport is needed to get in here and to your country.

The harm to border states economy is not to be taken lightly. And considering how few Americans get passports compared to Canada is cause for concern for both countries.

But you are absolutely correct in that US can do whatever they want as respects thier borders

Yes it can..and will, even if it is only a bone for domestic political battles. Some Canadians also whine about EU passports. If the Americans are arrogant, the Canadians are naive.

So this is all either grandstanding to "look" better , but underneath it all it is smoke and mirrors. The end result is exactly as you stated. We will have to get a passport or not enter. It is cut and dried. What isnt is the reasoning behind it. Can you see that ?

The political reasoning is quite clear. Tightened security, even if only for appearences sake, can translate into votes for US politicians. Mexico cannot reason anything resembling a double standard compared to Canada.

True, we enacted earlier , but it wasnt until the 1960's that arrests were made. And live with what consequences? There really isnt any to be worried about. It will not incur more social ills , and any that do crop up can be paid thru the associated sin tax.

"Racist Commonwealth" ...where does that come from and why? Trying to stir it up or is there some significance behind it?

Then why was it enacted at all? Do your own homework as to the origins, but here are some hints: Throne, South Africa, and Commonwealth. If there are no consequences, then why has it not been done? Make those big grow-ops pay taxes!

It is laughable that you actually engaged this issue when Canada banned cannabis first.

[Guthrie]

not that any of this diversion has anything to do with Eisenhower and the Military Industrial Complex but this:

... Canada banned cannabis first.

is wrong

[bush_cheney2004]

Eisenhower, the man of vision and wisdom who presided over the first Cold War build-up, didn't like dope either.

[Guthrie]

Eisenhower, the man of vision and wisdom who presided over the first Cold War build-up, didn't like dope either.

cannabis isn't dope

[bush_cheney2004]

cannabis isn't dope

With that post, you have proven what dope is.

[Guthrie]

cannabis isn't dope

With that post, you have proven what dope is.

Yes, guys who fraudulently present themselves as former covert agents who engaged in illegal activity involving submarines are dopes.

Eisenhower wasn't a dope but he wasn't up to the job of shutting down those greedy, criminal, Texans he spoke of.

[bush_cheney2004]

Eisenhower wasn't a dope but he wasn't up to the job of shutting down those greedy, criminal, Texans he spoke of.

Don't worry...the biting pain will subside soon, however, stupidity is forever.

[Guthrie]

I don't know what pain you refer to. As for stupidity, I have been aware of the futility of trying to teach stupid cyber frauds for some time now.

certainly, I don't expect fascist morons to rise above it

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't know what pain you refer to. As for stupidity, I have been aware of the futility of trying to teach stupid cyber frauds for some time now.

certainly, I don't expect fascist morons to rise above it

Yes, futility often accompanies stupidity. Carry on.

[August1991]

When the Americans are accused of "permitting" terrorists and illegal aliens (including those from Canada) to enter freely, steps to thwart illegal entry are met with derision. If the international standard is a valid passport, then one had damn well get one on either side of the border. Like Mexicans, Canadians do not have unfettered rights to enter the United States and curiously act with indignation when treated identically. Stopping illegal immigrants is a huge political issue in the US, regardless of Canada's perspective.

There's often a smart way and a dumb way to do things and right now the US is adopting the dumb way for protecting its borders.

There is no way the US will ever be able to police the border between Canada and the US. It's too long and too many people on either side are too integrated. Have you ever seen the border? (Not the Interstate crossing points.)

We can control who arrives on the continent but the US will never be able to control who crosses from Canada.

Face it Bush/Cheney, like it or not, you're stuck with us.

[Guthrie]

I don't know what pain you refer to. As for stupidity, I have been aware of the futility of trying to teach stupid cyber frauds for some time now.

certainly, I don't expect fascist morons to rise above it

Yes, futility often accompanies stupidity. Carry on.

you, of course, mean, 'fraudulence often accompanies stupidity.' and I expect you to carry on, even if I hope you wise up

...the US is adopting the dumb way for protecting its borders....

actually, the US is not protecting its borders

[August1991]

As to Eisenhower's reference to the military-industrial complex, the full context of his remarks are too often overlooked:

A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

Link

[bush_cheney2004]

There is no way the US will ever be able to police the border between Canada and the US. It's too long and too many people on either side are too integrated. Have you ever seen the border? (Not the Interstate crossing points.)

We can control who arrives on the continent but the US will never be able to control who crosses from Canada.

Face it Bush/Cheney, like it or not, you're stuck with us.

I live 50 minutes from the CanAm border....I have "seen it" many times.

Mexicans, legal or otherwise, contribute far more to the US economy than Canadians within US borders.

Politically, a change must be made, regardless of the impact on cheap cigarettes or gas for Canadians.

If the adopted solution proves to be stupid, then it will likely be changed...by Americans.

[Guthrie]

That last line of Ike's speech (offered above) is very compelling.

this:

Mexicans, legal or otherwise, contribute far more to the US economy than Canadians within US borders.

again is wrong

[August1991]

If the adopted solution proves to be stupid, then it will likely be changed...by Americans.

So, you are admitting that the US position is stupid?

I live 50 minutes from the CanAm border....I have "seen it" many times.

How can you "see" it? It's several thousand kilometres long.

[bush_cheney2004]

If the adopted solution proves to be stupid, then it will likely be changed...by Americans.

So, you are admitting that the US position is stupid?

What part of "If" do you not understand?