jbg Posted March 31, 2007 Report Posted March 31, 2007 Not to mention that Churchill had FDR hounding him to give india it's freedom. While Britain is sensitive to the opinions of the world community, Hitler wasn't, not was Xerxes.I think the sensitivity to opinions, both of the domestic and world community, played a greater role. I think Roosvelt was concerned, basically, that the effort to save India for Britain would be on the US's dime, much like the effort to save Britain for Britain was. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
moderateamericain Posted April 1, 2007 Author Report Posted April 1, 2007 Much of this discussion serves to illuminate an elementary flaw in the movie -- the Battle of Thermopylae is a story that deserves being told for its own sake, not stretched and bent into a metaphor for today. True enough Figleaf. It does make a fantastic story. Which is why i attempted to leave politics out of it, Although we did get into a side argument about "Masculinity" Quote
Black Dog Posted April 2, 2007 Report Posted April 2, 2007 ModAm: Ill take the bait Canadian, A real man is a person who puts his family and friends before his own needs. A real man protects his family and the people he cares about at the risk of even his own life. A real man evaluates a situation and makes a judgment based on his best judgment. A real man can handle any situation that comes up in life and even if he cant he takes it on anyways. A real man takes responsibility for his own actions. A real man recognizes the need to protect his land from Domestic and Foreign attackers. A real man takes control of a situation through action and does not hide behind only words. To me, those are the signs and qualities that i feel a man should have. Aren't those qualities a human should have? There's certainly nothing intrinsically male about them. Some silly person: Anyway, I'm tired of this silly game, so I'll let you and pipsqueak Figleaf continue your desperate ridicule of masculinity, and get the last word in. Toodles, boys! Er...generally, when one makes a big production out of flouncing out of a thread, it's a bad idea to come back with mulitiple posts less than 24 hours later. FYI. Quote
ScottSA Posted April 2, 2007 Report Posted April 2, 2007 Some silly person:Anyway, I'm tired of this silly game, so I'll let you and pipsqueak Figleaf continue your desperate ridicule of masculinity, and get the last word in. Toodles, boys! Er...generally, when one makes a big production out of flouncing out of a thread, it's a bad idea to come back with mulitiple posts less than 24 hours later. FYI. I didn't come back to argue masculinity with CB. Try to focus on what is actually happening around you. It's encouraging though that you have to resort to sillyassed attacks on me personally, since it shows you don't have any arguments left in the realm of ideas. Quote
Black Dog Posted April 2, 2007 Report Posted April 2, 2007 I didn't come back to argue masculinity with CB. Except that, you know, you did. I think moderateamerican's defintion is about as good as it gets. (that would be moderateamerican's definition of masculinty-ed) Concepts like honor, duty and courage have been devalued for the last several decades, because they entail something called sacrifice...long out of vogue after decades of decadent 'me'ism and feminization, and it's long past time that it reawakened. Thank God it is, finally. What CB seems not to realize is that there's a time for softness, or 'compassion' as he calls it, and a time for strength, or 'violence' as he dismissively calls it. blah blah blah It's safe to say, based on your approval of moderateamerican's definition of masculinity, that you're still discussing masculinity, albeit in terms you consider to be synonyms thereof. I can understand why my pointing out that you can't restrain yourself from trying to get the last word in would cause you some embarassment, but it's not much of a personal attack. Well, perhaps calling you silly qualifies, but I'd say its defensible based on your rather silly behaviour in this thread (it's not like I based it on unknown characteristics; for instance, calling you a "pipsqueak" or something.) More of an observation, really. Quote
Canadian Blue Posted April 2, 2007 Report Posted April 2, 2007 I didn't come back to argue masculinity with CB. Try to focus on what is actually happening around you. Which is.... It's encouraging though that you have to resort to sillyassed attacks on me personally, since it shows you don't have any arguments left in the realm of ideas. Buddy, here is the basic response you give when you're angry. Anyway, I'm tired of this silly game, so I'll let you and pipsqueak Figleaf continue your desperate ridicule of masculinity, and get the last word in. Toodles, boys! You know, I watch frigian Commando, but I don't think it somehow reaffirms our masculinity. Quote "Keep your government hands off my medicare!" - GOP activist
Rue Posted April 2, 2007 Report Posted April 2, 2007 How come all the Persians looked like Orcs? Because that is your subjective projection? I am sure they look like cute cuddly victims to the usual on these posts. Quote
moderateamericain Posted April 2, 2007 Author Report Posted April 2, 2007 ModAm:Ill take the bait Canadian, A real man is a person who puts his family and friends before his own needs. A real man protects his family and the people he cares about at the risk of even his own life. A real man evaluates a situation and makes a judgment based on his best judgment. A real man can handle any situation that comes up in life and even if he cant he takes it on anyways. A real man takes responsibility for his own actions. A real man recognizes the need to protect his land from Domestic and Foreign attackers. A real man takes control of a situation through action and does not hide behind only words. To me, those are the signs and qualities that i feel a man should have. Aren't those qualities a human should have? There's certainly nothing intrinsically male about them. Some silly person: Anyway, I'm tired of this silly game, so I'll let you and pipsqueak Figleaf continue your desperate ridicule of masculinity, and get the last word in. Toodles, boys! Er...generally, when one makes a big production out of flouncing out of a thread, it's a bad idea to come back with mulitiple posts less than 24 hours later. FYI. Yeah Black dog, Its a really complex question, I know that those are all qualities we look for in both women and men, I guess because the scope of a question of what is a man is so big, its hard to pin down just a few things that define you as a man. So I know thats quite a fallacious argument about it, but I was not planning on writing a huge dissertation on the subject. Quote
Figleaf Posted April 3, 2007 Report Posted April 3, 2007 Yeah Black dog, Its a really complex question, I know that those are all qualities we look for in both women and men, I guess because the scope of a question of what is a man is so big, its hard to pin down just a few things that define you as a man. So I know thats quite a fallacious argument about it, but I was not planning on writing a huge dissertation on the subject. Maybe you should have said: A real man is a person who HAS A PENIS AND puts his family and friends before his own needs. A real man HAS A PENIS AND protects his family and the people he cares about at the risk of even his own life. A real man evaluates a situation and makes a judgment based on his best judgment. A real man HAS A PENIS AND can handle IT AND any situation that comes up in life and even if he cant he takes it on anyways. A real man HAS A PENIS AND takes responsibility for his own actions. A real man HAS A PENIS AND recognizes the need to protect his land from Domestic and Foreign attackers. A real man HAS A PENIS AND takes control of a situation through action and does not hide behind only words. To me, those are the signs and qualities that i feel a man should have, ESPECIALLY THE PENIS. Quote
moderateamericain Posted April 3, 2007 Author Report Posted April 3, 2007 Yeah Black dog, Its a really complex question, I know that those are all qualities we look for in both women and men, I guess because the scope of a question of what is a man is so big, its hard to pin down just a few things that define you as a man. So I know thats quite a fallacious argument about it, but I was not planning on writing a huge dissertation on the subject. Maybe you should have said: A real man is a person who HAS A PENIS AND puts his family and friends before his own needs. A real man HAS A PENIS AND protects his family and the people he cares about at the risk of even his own life. A real man evaluates a situation and makes a judgment based on his best judgment. A real man HAS A PENIS AND can handle IT AND any situation that comes up in life and even if he cant he takes it on anyways. A real man HAS A PENIS AND takes responsibility for his own actions. A real man HAS A PENIS AND recognizes the need to protect his land from Domestic and Foreign attackers. A real man HAS A PENIS AND takes control of a situation through action and does not hide behind only words. To me, those are the signs and qualities that i feel a man should have, ESPECIALLY THE PENIS. Well i could have, but since we were talking about Masculinity I did not think i needed to check for understanding of the male anatomy. Quote
Black Dog Posted April 3, 2007 Report Posted April 3, 2007 modam: Yeah Black dog, Its a really complex question, I know that those are all qualities we look for in both women and men, I guess because the scope of a question of what is a man is so big, its hard to pin down just a few things that define you as a man. So I know thats quite a fallacious argument about it, but I was not planning on writing a huge dissertation on the subject. That's why this whole "masculinity" thing seems so silly. If these qualities are not intrinsically male, then the whole premise of masculinity goes out the window as nothing but a social construct. A set of stereotypes more than anything. IOW: there's a reason why "manliness" as some have called it is so difficult to pin define or measure. It's unquantifiable. Quote
Canadian Blue Posted April 3, 2007 Report Posted April 3, 2007 Isn't masculinity what you make it. The way I see it, every single human being is an individual, and each has their own characteristics and qualities about them. Saying that a movie reaffirms masculinity is a fairly inane remark, because to some people Leonidus might be the ideal man, to others it might be Atticus Finch. Quote "Keep your government hands off my medicare!" - GOP activist
Liam Posted April 3, 2007 Report Posted April 3, 2007 Come on! This is such a manly movie!! No homoeroticism whatsoever! Quote
moderateamericain Posted April 4, 2007 Author Report Posted April 4, 2007 Come on! This is such a manly movie!! No homoeroticism whatsoever! Well the whole argument was Foolish to begin with and I recognize that. But I just dislike it when people take courage, self sacrifice, and honor. All things which I associate with as Manly qualities and turn them into something to be scorned. It is like people telling me its a dishonor to serve in the military. How could they know? Have they ever done it? I guess the real value that I took from the movie is the pride that I have, as a ex soldier, in seeing soldiers do what was necessary to protect the values that there cultured possessed. If there was ever a war that was worth fighting, protecting your home is it. And to me that is Noble. So you are correct it what you say that its not manliness that I admired but the values portrayed by the movie. So thank you BD for making a good point. Quote
M.Dancer Posted April 4, 2007 Report Posted April 4, 2007 Come on! This is such a manly movie!! No homoeroticism whatsoever! Well the whole argument was Foolish to begin with and I recognize that. But I just dislike it when people take courage, self sacrifice, and honor. All things which I associate with as Manly qualities and turn them into something to be scorned. It is like people telling me its a dishonor to serve in the military. How could they know? Have they ever done it? I guess the real value that I took from the movie is the pride that I have, as a ex soldier, in seeing soldiers do what was necessary to protect the values that there cultured possessed. If there was ever a war that was worth fighting, protecting your home is it. And to me that is Noble. So you are correct it what you say that its not manliness that I admired but the values portrayed by the movie. So thank you BD for making a good point. Don't be silly, gay men can be just as courageous, self sacrificing and honourable as any man. They just do it more fashionably than most.... .....take the spartans for example Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
moderateamericain Posted April 4, 2007 Author Report Posted April 4, 2007 Come on! This is such a manly movie!! No homoeroticism whatsoever! Well the whole argument was Foolish to begin with and I recognize that. But I just dislike it when people take courage, self sacrifice, and honor. All things which I associate with as Manly qualities and turn them into something to be scorned. It is like people telling me its a dishonor to serve in the military. How could they know? Have they ever done it? I guess the real value that I took from the movie is the pride that I have, as a ex soldier, in seeing soldiers do what was necessary to protect the values that there cultured possessed. If there was ever a war that was worth fighting, protecting your home is it. And to me that is Noble. So you are correct it what you say that its not manliness that I admired but the values portrayed by the movie. So thank you BD for making a good point. Don't be silly, gay men can be just as courageous, self sacrificing and honourable as any man. They just do it more fashionably than most.... .....take the spartans for example Dancer, shame on you, your far to smart for a post like that. Quote
Liam Posted April 4, 2007 Report Posted April 4, 2007 Well the whole argument was Foolish to begin with and I recognize that. But I just dislike it when people take courage, self sacrifice, and honor. All things which I associate with as Manly qualities and turn them into something to be scorned. It is like people telling me its a dishonor to serve in the military. How could they know? Have they ever done it? I guess the real value that I took from the movie is the pride that I have, as a ex soldier, in seeing soldiers do what was necessary to protect the values that there cultured possessed. If there was ever a war that was worth fighting, protecting your home is it. And to me that is Noble. So you are correct it what you say that its not manliness that I admired but the values portrayed by the movie. So thank you BD for making a good point. As far as my recollection of this entirely inane thread goes, the people honoring "300" as a "manly" film did so due to the war-like nature of it and its violence. Your thread was the only one I can remember that equated defending one's nation with the honor the Spartan showed. I can't speak for everyone, but I see no dishonor in being in the military or in defending one's home. Of course what the Spartans did was brave and honorable. Their sacrifice saved Greece from the Persians. But everyone here went off the deep end, like they were there at Thermopylae as co-defenders with the Spartans and anyone who took the p*ss out of them by mocking the film were Persia-lovers. "300" is just a piece of entertainment. Quote
Canadian Blue Posted April 4, 2007 Report Posted April 4, 2007 I think we should remember that the movie was based on a comic book. Its fairly ridiculous to contemplate that it is historically accurate, its just a piece of entertainment like most movies. Quote "Keep your government hands off my medicare!" - GOP activist
moderateamericain Posted April 4, 2007 Author Report Posted April 4, 2007 I think we should remember that the movie was based on a comic book. Its fairly ridiculous to contemplate that it is historically accurate, its just a piece of entertainment like most movies. Thats true, but to be honest the actual story that Historians agree on is just as fantastic. I heard that historians regard the number of Persian dead from anywhere from 10,000 to 20,000 dead. which is an astonishing number by any standard. I almost find the actual story more interesting then the comic adaptation. Quote
Canadian Blue Posted April 4, 2007 Report Posted April 4, 2007 Thats true, but to be honest the actual story that Historians agree on is just as fantastic. I heard that historians regard the number of Persian dead from anywhere from 10,000 to 20,000 dead. which is an astonishing number by any standard. I almost find the actual story more interesting then the comic adaptation. But that would be gay, literally. It'd be nice if they actually tried to make the movie historically accurate. Quote "Keep your government hands off my medicare!" - GOP activist
ScottSA Posted April 4, 2007 Report Posted April 4, 2007 It'd be nice if they actually tried to make the movie historically accurate. It would be far more disturbing to you if they had. Not only would you still find it homoerotic and uncomfortably "macho", but you'd find it mysogynist as well...they left out what Leonidas wife actually said to him when he went off to battle, and what his answer was. In fact, you and the PC brigade would not doubt be storming hollywood demanding that they turn history into something you'd be more comfortable with. Quote
Canadian Blue Posted April 4, 2007 Report Posted April 4, 2007 It would be far more disturbing to you if they had. Not only would you still find it homoerotic and uncomfortably "macho", but you'd find it mysogynist as well Of course it would be more homoerotic, because the Spartans were into that kind of thing. In fact, you and the PC brigade would not doubt be storming hollywood demanding that they turn history into something you'd be more comfortable with. What??? Quote "Keep your government hands off my medicare!" - GOP activist
Figleaf Posted April 5, 2007 Report Posted April 5, 2007 Maybe you should have said: A real man is a person who HAS A PENIS AND puts his family and friends before his own needs. A real man HAS A PENIS AND protects his family and the people he cares about at the risk of even his own life. A real man evaluates a situation and makes a judgment based on his best judgment. A real man HAS A PENIS AND can handle IT AND any situation that comes up in life and even if he cant he takes it on anyways. A real man HAS A PENIS AND takes responsibility for his own actions. A real man HAS A PENIS AND recognizes the need to protect his land from Domestic and Foreign attackers. A real man HAS A PENIS AND takes control of a situation through action and does not hide behind only words. To me, those are the signs and qualities that i feel a man should have, ESPECIALLY THE PENIS. Well i could have, but since we were talking about Masculinity I did not think i needed to check for understanding of the male anatomy. Hey, I'm just dickin' around. Quote
moderateamericain Posted April 6, 2007 Author Report Posted April 6, 2007 Maybe you should have said: A real man is a person who HAS A PENIS AND puts his family and friends before his own needs. A real man HAS A PENIS AND protects his family and the people he cares about at the risk of even his own life. A real man evaluates a situation and makes a judgment based on his best judgment. A real man HAS A PENIS AND can handle IT AND any situation that comes up in life and even if he cant he takes it on anyways. A real man HAS A PENIS AND takes responsibility for his own actions. A real man HAS A PENIS AND recognizes the need to protect his land from Domestic and Foreign attackers. A real man HAS A PENIS AND takes control of a situation through action and does not hide behind only words. To me, those are the signs and qualities that i feel a man should have, ESPECIALLY THE PENIS. Well i could have, but since we were talking about Masculinity I did not think i needed to check for understanding of the male anatomy. Hey, I'm just dickin' around. HAHA! Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 7, 2007 Report Posted April 7, 2007 Just screened this film today....marvelous entertainment and well executed film making. Reminded me of a combination "Zulu" and "Spartacus", which I both saw in theatrical release in the 1960's. Definitely the best infomercial for six/eight pack ab machines. Works well at the visceral level for warriors who only have each other to this day....to hell with the politicians. Oh, and it was easy to see why the Iranians are pissed off. Good. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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