300

[Figleaf]

Must you always use 10,000 words to say what you could have said in 10? Read the stuff you wrote. Its idiotic...truly it is. You sit back in your armchair and turgidly pontificate about the great moral courage it took 12 million people to be herded into concentration camps without fighting back. I dare you to show "great moral courage" and turn yourself into a middle eastern den of pious Muslims so that they can affirm your great moral friggin' courage by sawing your head off with a paring knife. Me? I'll fight like a great moral coward, but I'm sure you'll end up feeling superior.

Word count in post = 107

Words required to make point of post = 10.

[ScottSA]

Very lame...

[Canadian Blue]

Must you always use 10,000 words to say what you could have said in 10? Read the stuff you wrote. Its idiotic...truly it is.

What's idiotic, and genocidal is calling for a global war against all muslim's because you have an irrational fear of them.

Its idiotic...truly it is. You sit back in your armchair and turgidly pontificate about the great moral courage it took 12 million people to be herded into concentration camps without fighting back.

It does, Gandhi thought so too.

I dare you to show "great moral courage" and turn yourself into a middle eastern den of pious Muslims so that they can affirm your great moral friggin' courage by sawing your head off with a paring knife.

I'll wait till the time comes, and besides, if I get sent to Afghanistan [highly unlikely] I might encounter a similar situation and can tell you about it. In the mean time keep on imagining that you're King Leonidas, and continue to affirm your masculinity.

I'll fight like a great moral coward, but I'm sure you'll end up feeling superior.

If their is a god, he'll be the judge of that. I've never been in the situation, and I make no assumption's of what war is like. However I can say without a doubt that war has probably proven to be the most futile human experiment's of our time. The reason being that war rarely leads to an resolution, in fact many times war can lead to more problem's. In term's of self defence, yes it's justified, however when you believe war is always the favorable option then I'd tell you where to go. You can't really say what you would do in the same situation since you have never been in that situation. Few of us have been in a situation were we would have to fight, and I'm sure there is a huge difference between what we say we would do, and what we would do.

Either way, keep it up.

[Canadian Blue]

Very lame...

You were the one calling us "pseudo intellectuals".

[ScottSA]

Very lame...

You were the one calling us "pseudo intellectuals".

No, I'm the one shaking my head at you. Astounding, truly.

[ScottSA]

[The reason being that war rarely leads to an resolution,

That's nonsense. War usually leads to a resolution. What you really mean is that you wish it wouldn't.

In term's of self defence, yes it's justified, however when you believe war is always the favorable option then I'd tell you where to go. You can't really say what you would do in the same situation since you have never been in that situation. Few of us have been in a situation were we would have to fight, and I'm sure there is a huge difference between what we say we would do, and what we would do.

Either way, keep it up.

How do you know where I've been and what I've done and seen? I know precisely what I'd "do" if I had to fight...only someone who has never been in that situation would have the gall to applaude the "great moral courage" of being fed to lions without a fight. What rot.

[moderateamericain]

I tapped out because you've resorted to snide flaming. You have in no way shown how 300 is anything other than a celebration of masculinity, and in fact have been shown that there is no mysogyny (the heroine was portrayed as heroic), there was no homoeroticism (your point that the Spartans were portrayed as masculine is in some way "homoerotic" is foolish and unsubstantiated), and you generally resorted to the streetcorner psychology of the last century to try to say that masculinity is really latent homosexuality). It was silly in the 80s and 90s and it's no less silly today.

Ah see, that time I wasn't calling 300 misogynistic. That was directed at you.

Foolish and unsubstantiated allegations? How about some evidence to support any of your assertions that such a version of masculinity was out of fashion or is making a comeback? Shit, the anti-feminist backlash reared its head ages ago in the '80s. Rush had his feminazis in the 90s. As much as you'd like to flatter yourself, you're not really breaking any new ground.

So, let's say 300, with its depictions of half-nude musclemen thrusting spears at each other is not drenched in homoeroticism, but is simply a celebration of masculinity. If that's the case, how sad. For it's a trite, ridiculous version of masculinity that you would appear to embrace as something meaningful and admirable. That a cliche-ridden, utterly brainless and banal film like this would be worthy of your praise and regarded as a hallmark of manliness says all that needs to be said about the concept itself.

ModAm

I'd rather feel like a man, then a female.

That doesn't sound like someone particularily secure in their masculinity. It seems masculinity is like the elusive "cool". Those who have it don't run worrying about it: those who don't think of little else.

Ahh Blackdog you are cunning at taking a discussion and turning it into an insult. The only issue i have with what you say is what makes you think I sit around thinking about it. It was the direction the thread took and i stayed with it. Besides I have nothing to prove by lashing out at your gentle insults. Its like a mosquito buzzing around my ears. The issue lies with you my friend. You obviously have an issue with Masculinity, were you the kid who got beat up in school?

Also since were using danger as a barometer for courage or Masculinity, I passed that test twice over and I was scared every time. But i still dont prance around in pink shirts with forced lisp, man tits, and more hair products then a fashion show.

[Canadian Blue]

That's nonsense. War usually leads to a resolution. What you really mean is that you wish it wouldn't.

Not really, The Revolutionary War still led to the War of 1812, after that war their were still some elites in the US calling for war. World War 1 later on inadvertantly led to World War 2 [unfortunately for you, you can't seem to understand that certain event's can cause other reactions in history]. As well many times the resolution may not be long lasting, even in the US their were some rebellion's after warfare.

How do you know where I've been and what I've done and seen?

Barfights don't count, and most members of the military that I know who have experienced war don't view it with as much positivity as you do.

I know precisely what I'd "do" if I had to fight...only someone who has never been in that situation would have the gall to applaude the "great moral courage" of being fed to lions without a fight. What rot.

Well, apparently people who have been oppressed yet fought with non-violence would disagree with you. Many of these pacifists which you would hate were the ones who were leading the fight against slavery, poverty, and racism, the warmongers rarely ever cared about social justice.

Most early Christian's were non-violent due to their religious beliefs. Some who were part of the legion's were willing to go off and meet the enemy without weapon's so they wouldn't be forced to kill.

I don't mind applauding such people who are willing to sacrifice their own lives because they believe strongly in an ideal. The people I am concerned about are the ones who can only use violence as an ideal. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. I realize how much you detest people with different perspectives, however I'm not about to judge the people who were willing to give theirs lives for a cause they believed in, yet wouldn't kill for it based on moral grounds.

[ScottSA]

Well, you continue skipping along with your head in the clouds...imagining all the peehoople...

But it is tragic that all those decades of hard won peace bred such a large herd of sheep in the west. I guess that's why those 60 year cycles happen...

[Canadian Blue]

Well, you continue skipping along with your head in the clouds...imagining all the peehoople...

But it is tragic that all those decades of hard won peace bred such a large herd of sheep in the west. I guess that's why those 60 year cycles happen...

Because, as we all know, there have been no wars since 1945.

Now it's time to start a massive world war to get us back on the right track.

Either way, it's kind of sad that you think war is so great. From what I hear it really isn't, it's not like Commando. As for war resolving everything, it rarely does, afterwards their is often more bloodshed and suffering.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088944/

[M.Dancer]

World War 1 later on inadvertantly led to World War 2

That sort of inevitability excuses the culpability of leaders of the day. It wasn't inevitable in the least until the conditions of the armistace were broken by Germany and the unenforced by the allied powers. Had the militarization sudatenland been enforced and the Germany made to honour the treaty while she was militarily weak instead of allowed to grow in strength and confidence, it is likely that the second world war would have been short and painless.

[Canadian Blue]

Had the treaty of Versailles, and economic condition's been eased Germany may have not brought Hitler into power. The failure of the leaders of the day could also be for their support of such a harsh treaty.

I highly doubt the German's would have been happy sticking with the Versailles treaty as it stood.

As well it was a reference to ScottSA's belief that war resolves everything. As we have seen World War 1 was proclaimed as "The Last Great War". However in the end it didn't ensure a lasting peace. ScottSA meanwhile believes that if we engage in another massive war we will be able to solve the problem of jihadists by going after all muslims.

[Liam]

OK, it's a friggin movie. Lighten up everyone. Cripes amighty...

[Canadian Blue]

Liam's, it's not just a movie. Without it, what will happen to us, we won't be masculine anymore!!!

[M.Dancer]

Had the treaty of Versailles, and economic condition's been eased Germany may have not brought Hitler into power. The failure of the leaders of the day could also be for their support of such a harsh treaty.

I highly doubt the German's would have been happy sticking with the Versailles treaty as it stood.

As well it was a reference to ScottSA's belief that war resolves everything. As we have seen World War 1 was proclaimed as "The Last Great War". However in the end it didn't ensure a lasting peace. ScottSA meanwhile believes that if we engage in another massive war we will be able to solve the problem of jihadists by going after all muslims.

Hitler blamed the economic collapse on the treaty and the jews. The great depression affecting the entire world was just a coincidence......

Reparations or no, Germany was going to suffer, Hitler just took advantage of two things, the deapir of the German people and the willingness of the French and English to not use force when force was needed. In this case, a small war would have paid.

[moderateamericain]

For all the posters who are saying that 300 is not a masculine movie, have you ever served in the military, or been in a knock down drag out fist flying fight. I'm just curious as to what the responses are gonna be.

also if you guys wanna continue the thread you have going there you should do it my thread about Appeasment. It sort of follows what yall are getting into, were talking about 300 here.

[M.Dancer]

I've been in the militia and been in afight or 3.....I'm not saying it ain't masculine, quite the opposite, it's uber masculine....all leather and sweaty masculine

...not that there's anything wrong with that......

[Canadian Blue]

I currently am a regular force member of the Canadian Forces, however it's more of an administrative role at the moment.

[moderateamericain]

I currently am a regular force member of the Canadian Forces, however it's more of an administrative role at the moment.

Your armed forces and you do not appreciate the military aspect that the director used to display there tactics in battle? To me that is like an analogy of how well trained and equipped soldiers will win out every single time over numerically superior foes. yes i realize they all die in the end. But thats not the point. Every soldier that ever saw combat and had his friend's die wants there deaths to mean something. That's why you see Military soldiers from the US saying stay and support the war. they dont want those 3k deaths to mean nothing. I see those Spartans fight and know that for there time they were the greatest fighting force in the world. Much like the United States is now. I cannot think of anything that would give me more pride then to have served in the "Spartan" Army of our era. (sans the homosexuality) Every single person that I know who has served in the Military in the USA that has seen that movie, loved it. If you have never been in a fist fight before I highly encourage to do it at least once in your life. Even if you lose. You will never feel more alive I can promise you that.

[Canadian Blue]

That may be true, but I also hear of many soldiers protesting the war, I believe there were even a few in uniform at an anti-war protest. Ron Kovic's story is a tragic one, I can understand the need for soldiers to feel that those deaths need to mean something, however if we keep on going in the current situation what will improve.

While I am a member of CF I prefer to keep an open mind to other realities as well. I'm more anti-war in a way I guess, I don't agree with pre-emptive strikes. As well I want to see war used as a last resort in all cases. The invasion of Iraq wasn't a last resort.

Every single person I know who has watched Jarhead loved it as well, even though it wasn't very flattering towards the military.

If you have never been in a fist fight before I highly encourage to do it at least once in your life. Even if you lose. You will never feel more alive I can promise you that.

I got into friendly scuffles with my friends, but I wouldn't risk it these days since kids have guns and knives.

[ScottSA]

I've been in the militia and been in afight or 3.....I'm not saying it ain't masculine, quite the opposite, it's uber masculine....all leather and sweaty masculine

...not that there's anything wrong with that......

Cooks helpers don't count...

Canadian Blue, why do I have such a hard time believing that you're in any military. More of an admin role? You either is or you ain't. Are you a civvy attached to the forces?

[Canadian Blue]

Canadian Blue, why do I have such a hard time believing that you're in any military. More of an admin role? You either is or you ain't. Are you a civvy attached to the forces?

Not really, I'm with the Communication and Electronics Branch; so it can be considered more of an administration [static] role since I'm not attached to a field unit.

[Figleaf]

Your armed forces and you do not appreciate the military aspect that the director used to display there tactics in battle?

That was one of the worst parts! There was hardly any sensible revelation of tactics or strategy at all. The only decent part was early on when they were first attacked and the shield wall was forced back into the narrow pass and then broke back out. Everything after that was militarily ridiculous. Jumping about, leaving the line, throwing their spears -- feh!

And why didn't they wear armor? Real Spartans had breastplates and greaves -- these movie guys looked like a battle at Chippendales for crissakes.

they dont want those 3k deaths to mean nothing.

So the plan is to make it 6 or 10 k before acknowledging it has meant nothing?

I see those Spartans fight and know that for there time they were the greatest fighting force in the world. Much like the United States is now.

The chauvinism!

My friend, the only way the U.S. is like Sparta is it's warlike and has an 'S' in its name.

The U.S. is much, MUCH more like Persia -- a vast, soft, self-satisfied empire.

[Figleaf]

Canadian Blue, why do I have such a hard time believing that you're in any military.

Because you're a f[RULE VIOLATION]e, obviously.

[DogOnPorch]

And why didn't they wear armor? Real Spartans had breastplates and greaves -- these movie guys looked like a battle at Chippendales for crissakes.

Heheh...as well...those hoplon shields weighed something like 35lbs in action. Not too conducive to dance moves. Especially when you added the 10lb Corinthian helmet on the noggin. However, only the richest hoplites would have the whole magilla...often hardened leather was a substitute for items like a bronze breastplate...very expensive.

The phalanx was a pretty slow moving unit...relying on the hedgehog effect with all the pikes and interlocked shields. The Romans were the first to crack it and remove it from the battlefield. They'd work in files with high narrow shields, getting inbetween the pikes and then cutting around the hoplons with the short broad gladius sword...opening up holes in the phalanx. Rout quickly followed as the hoplites either had to drop pikes and draw their own swords or try to turn various parts of the phalanx to face the threat from within. Running ususally meant dropping the hoplon, thus the old Spartan wives' warning to the soldiers: Return with your shield or on it.

The phalanx started out small, but by Alexander's time it had reached it's maximum size based on pike length (22 feet or something close for the rear ranks). Beyond that gravity took over... The phalanx showed up again during the Middle-Ages in response to the military dominance of the knight on horseback. The Swiss and the Scots in particular making good use of the formation.

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A mighty power and stronger. Man from his throne has hurled, for the hand that rocks the cradle, is the hand that rules the world.

---William Wallace