9 year old boy begging Harper for help!

[Topaz]

A Canadian boy and his parent are in a jail in Austin TX because they (the parents) are Iranian born and was sent back there in 2005 and were tortured. They tired to get back into Canada with a Greek passport but the US found out of their false passport, when the plane they were on had to make an emergency stop in Puerto Rico.. The boy has sent a letter to Harper begging him to help him return to Canada, where he was born. His lawyer is trying to help the family out of the holding prison where food is scarce and condition are extreme. Some groups in the US and elsewhere is trying to sue the government over the condition of this place and the treatment of this family!

[Charles Anthony]

Welcome, Jenny, to the forum.

[Argus]

A Canadian boy and his parent are in a jail in Austin TX because they (the parents) are Iranian born and was sent back there in 2005 and were tortured. They tired to get back into Canada with a Greek passport but the US found out of their false passport, when the plane they were on had to make an emergency stop in Puerto Rico.. The boy has sent a letter to Harper begging him to help him return to Canada, where he was born. His lawyer is trying to help the family out of the holding prison where food is scarce and condition are extreme. Some groups in the US and elsewhere is trying to sue the government over the condition of this place and the treatment of this family!

Okay, let's look at this. We have a pair of Iranian nationals who tried to jump the queue to get into Canada. They claimed refugee status, used God only knows how much of our money through various appeals, and were ultimately told their case had no merit and to get out. While they were here, because people like you make it almost impossible to deport anyone quickly, they had a kid - an Iranian kid - born to Iranian parents. They went back to Iran when he was 2. Now they tried again to get here through trickery, using a false passport, and were caught. And they're trying to use the excuse that their kid was born here to justify us ignoring the long process they lost and let them in anyway.

Exactly what responsibility do we have towards these people?

None. In my view the child is no more Canadian than any other child born to foreign parents raised abroad. We should change the rules on citizenship in recognition of how small the world has become, so as to exempt children born to foreign parents who are then raised abroad.

[myata]

Agreed (on this rare occcasion). One does not have to scoure the world to find people in real distress who need instant help. Wasting resources on cheeters who go around every nook and cranny to get in is counter productive. Those who like to cry loud about any case of deportation must face their hypocrisy: for every case that goes around the levels of bureacracy on endless appeals and reconsiderations, there would be dozens of people in desperate condition whose cases are delayed because the resources are tied up in the slow process.

[Topaz]

A Canadian boy and his parent are in a jail in Austin TX because they (the parents) are Iranian born and was sent back there in 2005 and were tortured. They tired to get back into Canada with a Greek passport but the US found out of their false passport, when the plane they were on had to make an emergency stop in Puerto Rico.. The boy has sent a letter to Harper begging him to help him return to Canada, where he was born. His lawyer is trying to help the family out of the holding prison where food is scarce and condition are extreme. Some groups in the US and elsewhere is trying to sue the government over the condition of this place and the treatment of this family!

Okay, let's look at this. We have a pair of Iranian nationals who tried to jump the queue to get into Canada. They claimed refugee status, used God only knows how much of our money through various appeals, and were ultimately told their case had no merit and to get out. While they were here, because people like you make it almost impossible to deport anyone quickly, they had a kid - an Iranian kid - born to Iranian parents. They went back to Iran when he was 2. Now they tried again to get here through trickery, using a false passport, and were caught. And they're trying to use the excuse that their kid was born here to justify us ignoring the long process they lost and let them in anyway.

Exactly what responsibility do we have towards these people?

None. In my view the child is no more Canadian than any other child born to foreign parents raised abroad. We should change the rules on citizenship in recognition of how small the world has become, so as to exempt children born to foreign parents who are then raised abroad.

So are you saying the law should change and ALL people , whose parents were born else where should leave?? I guess the First Nation would love this law, they finally get their land back!!

[Argus]

A Canadian boy and his parent are in a jail in Austin TX because they (the parents) are Iranian born and was sent back there in 2005 and were tortured. They tired to get back into Canada with a Greek passport but the US found out of their false passport, when the plane they were on had to make an emergency stop in Puerto Rico.. The boy has sent a letter to Harper begging him to help him return to Canada, where he was born. His lawyer is trying to help the family out of the holding prison where food is scarce and condition are extreme. Some groups in the US and elsewhere is trying to sue the government over the condition of this place and the treatment of this family!

Okay, let's look at this. We have a pair of Iranian nationals who tried to jump the queue to get into Canada. They claimed refugee status, used God only knows how much of our money through various appeals, and were ultimately told their case had no merit and to get out. While they were here, because people like you make it almost impossible to deport anyone quickly, they had a kid - an Iranian kid - born to Iranian parents. They went back to Iran when he was 2. Now they tried again to get here through trickery, using a false passport, and were caught. And they're trying to use the excuse that their kid was born here to justify us ignoring the long process they lost and let them in anyway.

Exactly what responsibility do we have towards these people?

None. In my view the child is no more Canadian than any other child born to foreign parents raised abroad. We should change the rules on citizenship in recognition of how small the world has become, so as to exempt children born to foreign parents who are then raised abroad.

So are you saying the law should change and ALL people , whose parents were born else where should leave?? I guess the First Nation would love this law, they finally get their land back!!

Apparently you can't read. I said "born to foreign parents and raised abroad".

[Wilber]

Okay, let's look at this. We have a pair of Iranian nationals who tried to jump the queue to get into Canada. They claimed refugee status, used God only knows how much of our money through various appeals, and were ultimately told their case had no merit and to get out. While they were here, because people like you make it almost impossible to deport anyone quickly, they had a kid - an Iranian kid - born to Iranian parents. They went back to Iran when he was 2. Now they tried again to get here through trickery, using a false passport, and were caught. And they're trying to use the excuse that their kid was born here to justify us ignoring the long process they lost and let them in anyway.

Agreed (on this rare occcasion). One does not have to scoure the world to find people in real distress who need instant help. Wasting resources on cheeters who go around every nook and cranny to get in is counter productive. Those who like to cry loud about any case of deportation must face their hypocrisy: for every case that goes around the levels of bureacracy on endless appeals and reconsiderations, there would be dozens of people in desperate condition whose cases are delayed because the resources are tied up in the slow process.

Another agreement. If we are to blame it is because we have built a system that allowed these people to milk it for ten years before they were deported. Now that they have been caught trying to re enter the country illegally using forged documents, they are trying to use the child to accomplish the same purpose. Surely there are far more worthy people entitled to our compassion.

[jenny]

used God only knows how much of our money

Our money? Who is "our"

Who only knows?

[Hydraboss]

OUR.

As in "legal taxpayers of Canada".

That's whose money.

[dlkenny]

A Canadian boy and his parent are in a jail in Austin TX because they (the parents) are Iranian born and was sent back there in 2005 and were tortured. They tired to get back into Canada with a Greek passport but the US found out of their false passport, when the plane they were on had to make an emergency stop in Puerto Rico.. The boy has sent a letter to Harper begging him to help him return to Canada, where he was born. His lawyer is trying to help the family out of the holding prison where food is scarce and condition are extreme. Some groups in the US and elsewhere is trying to sue the government over the condition of this place and the treatment of this family!

Okay, let's look at this. We have a pair of Iranian nationals who tried to jump the queue to get into Canada. They claimed refugee status, used God only knows how much of our money through various appeals, and were ultimately told their case had no merit and to get out. While they were here, because people like you make it almost impossible to deport anyone quickly, they had a kid - an Iranian kid - born to Iranian parents. They went back to Iran when he was 2. Now they tried again to get here through trickery, using a false passport, and were caught. And they're trying to use the excuse that their kid was born here to justify us ignoring the long process they lost and let them in anyway.

Exactly what responsibility do we have towards these people?

None. In my view the child is no more Canadian than any other child born to foreign parents raised abroad. We should change the rules on citizenship in recognition of how small the world has become, so as to exempt children born to foreign parents who are then raised abroad.

So are you saying the law should change and ALL people , whose parents were born else where should leave?? I guess the First Nation would love this law, they finally get their land back!!

That's not at all what they are saying. They are saying that if someone comes here just to have a baby for the purpose of getting it citizenship, and then taking it elsewhere to be raised with no canadian background then that child shouldn't have a canadian citizenship. If the parents are legal, landed immigrants or canadian citizens then yes the canadian government should stand up for these people. However, if they were here illegally and booted out they're cheaters and we shouldn't allow them to take advantage of us.

[Catchme]

Welcome, Jenny, to the forum.

What does this mean? Jenny was not even in this thread until way further down?

[Canadian Blue]

Jenny is Baylee. I've been getting creepy messages from her/him.

[jenny]

Jenny is Baylee. I've been getting creepy messages from her/him.

[/quote

WTF?

I sent a message saying I would be in the PEG and we should get together at a bar that Neil hung out at.

Thats creepy?

Anyway. Harper, in an effort to score a few points has decided to finnaly help out this Canadian boy

[sharkman]

No matter what Harper does, the harpies swing into action. He ignores the boy, who has no doubt been put up to this by his parents, and Harper's a heartless hard right whacko who should be turfed out of office.

If Harper tries to help, he's a heartless politician just trying to score political points.

[Argus]

Anyway. Harper, in an effort to score a few points has decided to finnaly help out this Canadian boy

I had not heard that. If he has, then it is indeed to score cheap political points, and I am disappointed in him.

[Rue]

With due respect Topaz I have to agree with Argus on this one although I think your concern is commendable.

Look, our refugee system has not worked. If you look at the actual source countries that create refugees, then compare that to the countries where we accept refugees from, you will note the two lists are not even close.

The refugee system we signed on to by adapting the UN convention on refugees was created in my opinion by upper middle class legal scholars who felt liberal guilt about refugees. Their ideas and concepts with due respect were not based on the real world.

Real refugees die from diaheria, dehydration, cholera, malnutrition in refugee camps. Many are children or the elderly who are the first to die.

What you see coming here are the professional class of third world countries.We are stripping away the future of third world countries and condemning them to never-ending poverty by enabling their professional class to come to Canada through a refugee system that basically ignores the refugees dying in refugee camps.

Most of the refugees we are seeing understand the immigration system and have been advised its easier to come to Canada, flush their passport down the airplane toilet and claim refugee status so they do not have to show they can qualify with language and training skills.

Many simply want medicare. Many the moment they get their citizenship, go right back to the alleged country of toruture and bring back more relatives.

Immigrants seeking to get into Canada of course will take the easiest route. Its human nature. I am not judging anyone. I would do the same to make a better life for my family. What I am saying though is the refugee system is a sham. Its a way to jump the line and the vast majority of alleged refugees are simply economic migrants seeking new opportunities.

I believe if we have a genuine concern for refugees then we would have set up a system that properly screens them so that non refugees can't clog the system and most importantly we would go directly to the refugee camps.

Come on how many refugees to you see coming from Carfur to Canada...how many refugees came from Cambodia, Rawana, Burundi. Very fwe. There is a reason for that.

Don't get me wrong. I want a country that has compassion and can help the genuine needy. I hope we all do. Its just I think its time we seriously examine why real refugees can't get here and take a closer look at the people coming here and claiming to be refugees.

I think the selection criteria and definition of refugee has to be changed. I think the Refugee determination system has to be rehauled and the selection and screening process take place at refugee camps oversees and not when alleged reugees come to Canada and throw their passports out at the border.

[Figleaf]

I think the Harper government is making the right decision to help this boy. He's a Canadian citizen. He's not a second class Canadian citizen. He's not a Canadian-citizen-but... . We don't have those categories of citizen, and until dangerous meanies get their act together to pass legislation creating such categories, the government's duty is to defend all Canadian citizens equally. For example by not letting them rot in jails for no crime.

[Argus]

I think the Harper government is making the right decision to help this boy. He's a Canadian citizen. He's not a second class Canadian citizen. He's not a Canadian-citizen-but... . We don't have those categories of citizen, and until dangerous meanies get their act together to pass legislation creating such categories, the government's duty is to defend all Canadian citizens equally. For example by not letting them rot in jails for no crime.

I think they should pass legislation to retroactively strip citizenship of anyone born here to non-Canadian parents unless the child is raised in Canada. They should further strip citizenship of any immigrant who leaves Canada to live elsewhere.

And I doubt a referendum on the subject would get less than 80% support.

[guyser]

I think the Harper government is making the right decision to help this boy. He's a Canadian citizen. He's not a second class Canadian citizen. He's not a Canadian-citizen-but... . We don't have those categories of citizen, and until dangerous meanies get their act together to pass legislation creating such categories, the government's duty is to defend all Canadian citizens equally. For example by not letting them rot in jails for no crime.

..and thus, the whole family will soon be on their way to Canada.

[Figleaf]

I think the Harper government is making the right decision to help this boy. He's a Canadian citizen. He's not a second class Canadian citizen. He's not a Canadian-citizen-but... . We don't have those categories of citizen, and until dangerous meanies get their act together to pass legislation creating such categories, the government's duty is to defend all Canadian citizens equally. For example by not letting them rot in jails for no crime.

..and thus, the whole family will soon be on their way to Canada.

Yes, and no harm done by that. The father held steady employment for year here before they were deported.

Our immigration system has many flaws. We end up with too many family class immigrants. It takes far too long to remove someone even after all their legal avenues have been tried and the order to remove them is in effect, sometimes it seems to take years to make it happen. We don't economic immigrants quickly enough. The refugee determination process is unwieldy and yet arbitrary. Insufficient attention is paid to the integration of immigrants once they have been admitted. All those things are problems and should be fixed, but letting a 9 year old Canadian citizen rot in a Texas jail is not a way to fix them.

[Argus]

I think the Harper government is making the right decision to help this boy. He's a Canadian citizen. He's not a second class Canadian citizen. He's not a Canadian-citizen-but... . We don't have those categories of citizen, and until dangerous meanies get their act together to pass legislation creating such categories, the government's duty is to defend all Canadian citizens equally. For example by not letting them rot in jails for no crime.

..and thus, the whole family will soon be on their way to Canada.

Yes, and no harm done by that.

Sure. All it does is tell everyone "Ignore what the law says. Ignore the process. Just come. And if you get thrown out. Just come again, but bring a better lie next time."

The father held steady employment for year here before they were deported.

A whole year, eh? Brain surgeon was he? Or maybe taxi driver?

Our immigration system has many flaws. We end up with too many family class immigrants.

And you think the answer is to signal that even what tenuous rules we have don't matter?

It takes far too long to remove someone even after all their legal avenues have been tried and the order to remove them is in effect, sometimes it seems to take years to make it happen.

And you think this makes it better??? It took us years to get rid of these people, and now they're back again.

but letting a 9 year old Canadian citizen rot in a Texas jail is not a way to fix them.

I could walk into any street in Botswana or Liberia and find a child that is every bit as Canadian as this kid.

[Figleaf]

Sure. All it does is tell everyone "Ignore what the law says. Ignore the process. Just come. And if you get thrown out. Just come again, but bring a better lie next time."

I don't see how it sends that message. The family was compliant with Canadian immigration laws. As I understand it they left Canada when required to and were attempting to return to make a refugee claim based on new persecution they experienced after their return.

The father held steady employment for year here before they were deported.

A whole year, eh? Brain surgeon was he? Or maybe taxi driver?

You misread my typo -- the missing letter is an s on the end of year(s).

Our immigration system has many flaws. We end up with too many family class immigrants.

And you think the answer is to signal that even what tenuous rules we have don't matter?

As noted above, this case doesn't represent a successful attempt to circumvent our rules.

I could walk into any street in Botswana or Liberia and find a child that is every bit as Canadian as this kid.

Your private views about how citizenship should operate are not particularly relevant to a discussion of how they do operate.

[Wilber]

Sure. All it does is tell everyone "Ignore what the law says. Ignore the process. Just come. And if you get thrown out. Just come again, but bring a better lie next time."

Or forged documents, a crime in most countries which is why they wound up in jail in the US.

[Figleaf]

Sure. All it does is tell everyone "Ignore what the law says. Ignore the process. Just come. And if you get thrown out. Just come again, but bring a better lie next time."

Or forged documents, a crime in most countries which is why they wound up in jail in the US.

Are you sure it's a US crime to carry mock non-US documents which you don't intend to present to US authorities? It sounds like a stretch to me.

Anyway, AFAIK they were not charged with any crime in the US. They were detained in immigration proceedings.

[Wilber]

Are you sure it's a US crime to carry mock non-US documents which you don't intend to present to US authorities? It sounds like a stretch to me.

So you agree that if they had entered Canada using forged documents it would have been a crime because that was their intent and you maintain we should give refugee status to those who enter the country using falsified documents.

If you enter a country and present forged documents to identify yourself, of course it is a crime. Perhaps Greece should charge them, after all it was forgeries of their documents which were being used.