Leafless Posted February 19, 2007 Report Posted February 19, 2007 "The GlobeScan survey found that a majority (56 per cent) of Canadians regard the conflict between Islam and the West to be primarily about "political power and interests." Only 29 per cent said religious and cultural differences are to blame." http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...b0f87f0&k=57029 -------------------------------------------------- "Primarily about political power and interest." What war is not fought over these interest. Only problem with Islam is their religion and politics, is all rolled into one neat little violent package, unlike modern civilized societies of the world. I think Islamic nations have already started this war and feel they can whip the world into getting their way. I think Islam has demomstrated how barbaric they are and are headed into full fledged conflict. Quote
Melanie_ Posted February 19, 2007 Report Posted February 19, 2007 Islamic countries is a misnomer. In fact, there are no Islamic countries in the world, but Muslim majority countries. An Islamic country implies that the law of the Qur'an and Sunnah is enforced in all aspects of lives of the people which includes Islamic politics, Islamic economics and an Islamic social system. This is not true for a single country with a Muslim majority. WikipediaThis link lists countries by the percentage of population that are Muslim (scroll down to the bottom for the top 60). Please take a look at the list, and identify which "Islamic nations" you are referring to. Quote For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. Nelson Mandela
BC_chick Posted February 20, 2007 Report Posted February 20, 2007 You're being way too simplistic with the whole Islam vs. West argument. Presently, there are Muslim-terrorists who attack American interests (for provoked reasons as well as unprovoked), the Muslims who feel America is doing the right thing by bringing democracy to the ME.... and the vast majority of Muslims who fall somewhere within these two polar ideologies. Which Muslims, and which Muslim "nations" are we talking about here? Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Leafless Posted February 20, 2007 Author Report Posted February 20, 2007 Islamic countries is a misnomer. In fact, there are no Islamic countries in the world, but Muslim majority countries. An Islamic country implies that the law of the Qur'an and Sunnah is enforced in all aspects of lives of the people which includes Islamic politics, Islamic economics and an Islamic social system. This is not true for a single country with a Muslim majority. WikipediaThis link lists countries by the percentage of population that are Muslim (scroll down to the bottom for the top 60). Please take a look at the list, and identify which "Islamic nations" you are referring to. If there are no Islamic countries in the world, then why are these countries called Islamic countries: http://www.islamic-world.net/countries/index.htm And this is a list of Islamist terrorist organizations: *Islamist terrorist organizations* Abu Sayyaf (1991-present; Islamist separatists; the Philippines) Based in the southern islands of Jolo, Basilan, and Mindanao. Branched off of the Moro National Liberation Front. Allegedly partnered with Jemaah Islamiyah and Al-Qaeda. Aden-Abyan Islamic Army (Yemen) Adolat - Uzbekistan Akramiya - Uzbekistan Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Late 1970s-present; Islamists; Egypt) Seeks to establish Islamist state in Egypt. Usually targets secular establishments, government buildings, police, the military, minorities, tourists, and “morally offensive” buildings. Armed Islamic Group (1992-present; Islamists; Algeria) Seeks to establish Islamist state in Algeria. Began operations in 1992 after the Algerian government ignored election results that gave victory to Islamist political parties. Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades Ansar al-Islam (December 2001-present; Islamists; Iraq) In Arabic, "Supporters of Islam." Also known as "Partisans of Islam or Helpers of Islam." Al-Qaeda (1988-present; Islamists; Afghanistan, Pakistan, and worldwide) In Arabic, "the foundation", "the base", or "the database" kept by intelligence services of anti-Soviet Afghani fighters. Also known as Qa‘idat al-Jihad, Islamic Army for the Liberation of the Holy Places, World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders, Islamic Salvation Foundation, and the Osama bin Laden Network. Related: Alneda (former web site), As-Sahab (affiliated public relations organization), Cells: Buffalo six, Hamburg cell, Asbat al-Ansar (early 1990s-present; Lebanese Sunni Islamists; southern Lebanon) In Arabic, "the League of the Followers." Acronym for "Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya," or Islamic Resistance Movement. Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad/Al-Qaeda in Iraq - Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Sunni network, operating in Iraq on U.S. State Department list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement - al-Qaeda linked separatist group in China's Xinjiang Autonomous Region aiming to establish an Islamic state. Banned by China, along with related groups East Turkestan Liberation Organization, World Uighur Youth Congress and East Turkistan Information Center[3] Egyptian Islamic Jihad - Egypt (active since the late 1970s) Hamas - West Bank, Gaza Strip. Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the European Union, Israel, and the United States Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM) - Pakistan and Kashmir Hizb-an-nusra - Uzbekistan Hizb ut-Tahrir - international (legal in Britain and Australia) Hezbollah - Lebanon; Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, Israel, and the United States Hizbul Mujahideen - Pakistan and Kashmir Hofstad Network - Netherlands Islamic Front for the Liberation of Bahrain - Defunct Islamic Movement of Central Asia - Central Asia (affiliated with Al Qaeda) Islamic Movement of Tajikistan - Tajikistan Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan - Uzbekistan Jaish-e-Mohammed - Pakistan Jaish Ansar al-Sunna - Iraq Jama'at al-Jihad al-Islami Jemaah Islamiyah - Southeast Asia Jihad Rite - Australia (linked with Al Qaeda. Founded in 2001) Lashkar-e-Jhangvi - Pakistan Lashkar-e-Toiba - Pakistan Maktab al-Khadamat - Afghanistan - Defunct Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group - Morocco and Spain Moro Islamic Liberation Front - (Islamic separatists; the Philippines) Palestinian Islamic Jihad - Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip People Against Gangsterism and Drugs - South Africa Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat - Algeria Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan - Pakistan Students Islamic Movement of India - India Takfir wal-Hijra - Egypt/Sudan/Algeria Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat- e-Mohammadi (TNSM) - Pakistan [4] Kurdish-Hizbullah - Turkey * Sourced from Wikipedia* Quote
Melanie_ Posted February 20, 2007 Report Posted February 20, 2007 Your link to is to a website that promotes Islam, and refers to Islamic countries based on their own interpretation of what that is. That interpretation is completely subjective. And the groups you have listed aren't countries; they are terrorist organizations. They might be found in certain countries, but they don't represent those countries on the international stage. You haven't supported your point, if you have one, at all. Quote For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. Nelson Mandela
Catchme Posted February 20, 2007 Report Posted February 20, 2007 Your link to is to a website that promotes Islam, and refers to Islamic countries based on their own interpretation of what that is. That interpretation is completely subjective. And the groups you have listed aren't countries; they are terrorist organizations. They might be found in certain countries, but they don't represent those countries on the international stage. You haven't supported your point, if you have one, at all. The point is quite apparent and it has to do with personal biases and defaming people. Quote When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die. ~Jean-Paul Sartre
scribblet Posted February 20, 2007 Report Posted February 20, 2007 Your link to is to a website that promotes Islam, and refers to Islamic countries based on their own interpretation of what that is. That interpretation is completely subjective. And the groups you have listed aren't countries; they are terrorist organizations. They might be found in certain countries, but they don't represent those countries on the international stage. You haven't supported your point, if you have one, at all. I havn't read the whole thing yet, but is it possible that there is a difference in meaning, e.g, Islamic as opposed to Muslim. To my mind Islamic is a country or organization which supports the Caliphate, or a radical theocracy under Sharia Law. I'm sure not all muslims are of the radical type. Islamism is much like fascism and Marxism-Leninism and hostile to the 'infidel'. Countries such as Algeria, Turkey, Egypt, and Malaysia are Muslim but not necessarily radical Islamic. Radical Islamists are working towards world domination and a Global Islamic Caliphate, that is what we have to worry about. I'll add to this here as I think its in line with the theme: The Islamification of Palestine http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/ed...87-0288daaca8de It remains to be seen what was accomplished at the Fatah-Hamas summit held earlier this month. Yet one thing was made abundantly clear by the very fact of the meeting -- Palestinian Christians have new cause to worry about their religious liberty. The feuding Palestinian parties met in the holy city of Mecca (Makkah), hosted by Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah. Mecca is an odd choice for a summit site, because non-Muslims are not permitted to enter the Islamic holy cities of Mecca and Medinah. There are checkpoints on the highways into the holy cities, at which non-Muslim motorists who may have missed the "Muslims Only" signs are advised not to go any further. Media reports were remarkably silent on the question of holding the Palestinian summit in a city where Palestinian Christians -- a small minority, but historically active in Palestinian leadership -- are barred by law -snip- But the principal question is for those Palestinian people who wish "to recover their national rights" as King Abdullah puts it. Are those national rights to be understood in Islamic terms? Is the long delayed Palestinian state to be an Islamic republic? And if Palestinian leaders feel comfortable meeting in cities where Christians are banned, what confidence can Christians worldwide have that our holy sites -- in Bethlehem and the Old City of Jerusalem -- would be safeguarded should they ever come under the jurisdiction of a Palestinian state? The centuries-old presence of Christians in the "Arab-Islamic" world is dwindling. Where there were hundreds of thousands, there are now communities of only a few dozen families. Most dramatic of all, Bethlehem, once a majority- Christian city, is now three quarters Muslim. Christians increasingly feel like aliens among their own people, as Islamic identity dominates the national ties of Palestinian heritage. Meetings in Mecca will only confirm the fears of Palestinian Christians that there is little future for them in the "Arab-Islamic" nation. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
Leafless Posted February 20, 2007 Author Report Posted February 20, 2007 You're being way too simplistic with the whole Islam vs. West argument.Presently, there are Muslim-terrorists who attack American interests (for provoked reasons as well as unprovoked), the Muslims who feel America is doing the right thing by bringing democracy to the ME.... and the vast majority of Muslims who fall somewhere within these two polar ideologies. Which Muslims, and which Muslim "nations" are we talking about here? Those are my views concerning the poll I posted. I simply find it ironic that whether you consider 'culture and religion' or 'political power and interest', as the cause for the conflict between Islam and the West. Either views are capable of producing a full blown conflict or clash of civilizations. Just a stupid poll. What do you think? Quote
BC_chick Posted February 21, 2007 Report Posted February 21, 2007 I simply find it ironic that whether you consider 'culture and religion' or 'political power and interest', as the cause for the conflict between Islam and the West. Either views are capable of producing a full blown conflict or clash of civilizations. Just a stupid poll. What do you think? I think you may have misunderstood what the questions were asking, they weren't necessarily denying a "clash of civilizations." Allow me to rephrase them for you.... "Do you buy the government's official story about the terrorists being after a worldwide caliphe when attacking the West" (culture and religion) or "Do you believe your own eyes and ears which indicate that there are other dynamics at work" (political power and interest) Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Black Dog Posted February 21, 2007 Report Posted February 21, 2007 I havn't read the whole thing yet, but is it possible that there is a difference in meaning, e.g, Islamic as opposed to Muslim. To my mind Islamic is a country or organization which supports the Caliphate, or a radical theocracy under Sharia Law. I'm sure not all muslims are of the radical type. The strain of Islam you refer to is Wahhabism. Islamism is much like fascism and Marxism-Leninism and hostile to the 'infidel'. Do tell. Radical Islamists are working towards world domination and a Global Islamic Caliphate, that is what we have to worry about. I wouldn't worry too much. Quote
Leafless Posted February 21, 2007 Author Report Posted February 21, 2007 I simply find it ironic that whether you consider 'culture and religion' or 'political power and interest', as the cause for the conflict between Islam and the West. Either views are capable of producing a full blown conflict or clash of civilizations. Just a stupid poll. What do you think? I think you may have misunderstood what the questions were asking, they weren't necessarily denying a "clash of civilizations." Allow me to rephrase them for you.... "Do you buy the government's official story about the terrorists being after a worldwide caliphe when attacking the West" (culture and religion) or "Do you believe your own eyes and ears which indicate that there are other dynamics at work" (political power and interest) The article and poll appears to be trying to disassociate reference between a 'clash of civilizations' and a "conflict" as one being less serious than the other. First paragraph reads: "Most Canadians reject the notion that the Islamic and western worlds are engaged in a clash of civilizations based on culture and religion, according to a new international poll." And then in the next paragraph reads: "The GlobeScan survey found that a majority (56 per cent) of Canadians regard the conflict between Islam and the West to be primarily about "political power and interests." Notice the separation from "clash of civilizations" based on culture and religion to a "conflict" based on "political power and interest'. Whether it is political power and interest rather than culture and religion BOTH are recipes for global war. Just as stupid article and poll trying to take the emphasis off of "culture and religion" as the cause for the clash of civilizations. Quote
BC_chick Posted February 23, 2007 Report Posted February 23, 2007 Notice the separation from "clash of civilizations" based on culture and religion to a "conflict" based on "political power and interest'.Whether it is political power and interest rather than culture and religion BOTH are recipes for global war. Okay, then in that case make it.... "Do you buy the government's fearmongering official story about the terrorists being after a worldwide caliphe when attacking the West" (culture and religion) or "Do you believe your own eyes and ears which indicate that there are other dynamics at work" (political power and interest) IOW.... I still think the questions made sense and so did the answers. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Leafless Posted February 23, 2007 Author Report Posted February 23, 2007 Okay, then in that case make it...."Do you buy the government's fearmongering official story about the terrorists being after a worldwide caliphe when attacking the West" (culture and religion) or "Do you believe your own eyes and ears which indicate that there are other dynamics at work" (political power and interest) IOW.... I still think the questions made sense and so did the answers. You are inventing your own questions. We don't exactly know how the questions concerning this poll were presented and what those questions were. This is the danger concerning many polls as they can be manipulated to obtain the desired response. Quote
obsidian Posted February 26, 2007 Report Posted February 26, 2007 the middle east is a key geopolitical area, which happens to be predominantly muslim. wether jews, catholics, bhudists, muslims inhabited the area or not, we would still be there. if any of you have read any of Zbigniew Brzezinski books he has been predicting a conflict in that area for decades. he cited that this war was unlikely to occur if america was seen as the aggravators. in the project for the new american century it says "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event-like a new Pearl Harbour". it seems that we're already well on our way to this war. for america to remain a super power it needs control of the worlds natural resources, and right now, they're fighting for 'em. Quote
Mad_Michael Posted March 1, 2007 Report Posted March 1, 2007 I'm not sure if there is a real conflict of civilizations going on here or not. I am sure that there is a whole lot of people trying to create one. Quote
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