Stephen Harper and the Theo-cons

[Martin Chriton]

Why after all would he do such a thing? He is a minority government with his party having 24% of the popular vote. He has NO mandate from Canadians to do such thing. So, his motivations lay elsewhere. In fact he said so himself.

Can people please stop saying this ignorant trash?

The Conservatives got ~36% of the popular vote last election [1]. Chretien won majorities with only ~38% of the popular vote [2]. That's only a 2% difference! He has as much of a mandate as Chretien ever did.

Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_fede...lection%2C_2006 [1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_federal_election,_1997 [2]

[PolyNewbie]

This list goes on please feel free to add to it people.

-The American Union

-Wanting to build more prisons

-Selling off 40 billion of gov assets to private so they can rent them back to us at profit.

-Having a dark agenda wrt CFR and UN

-Lining up with Bush

-Not helping Palestine

-Unjust and Illegal wars based on lies

[sharkman]

Ah Poly, is their a situation you don't have a conspiracy theory for?

[Catchme]

Yes, it grows very close to the time when this government should be disbanded.

Considering:

Harper's secretive movement towards deep integration and trying to do it and trying to pull the wool over Canadians eyes. Exampled by giving out NO BID contracts.

Harper's chucking aside for NO reason decades long Canadian foreign policy, with NO mandate to do, or indeed to do anything much at all.

Harper's failure to to acknowledge and do anything about the state of the environment.

Harpers failure to meet his 5 promises in his election campaign.

Harper's quite obvious Theo-con agenda which appears to be motivating his actions.

Harper's failure to create any accountability in government.

Harper's failure to be open and transparent to Canadians.

Harper's and the CPC continuing to make QP and the HoC a mockery, with their lies, yelling and conduct unbecoming.

Harper's war mongering and outrageous labelling of peoples in the world.

This list goes on please feel free to add to it people.

Quit trolling catchme, at least try to base your dogma on reality.

Not trolling, what a terrible accusation. How can speaking truth/fact be trolling? And what would be dogma to you?

All those points are factual, and supportable, indeed all the proof is right here at the mapleleaffourms. But I do thank you for offering me the oppotunity to ellucidate further on Harper's failures and actions.

One need only go to the Harper threads, one would be the promises made thread, they were are quite definitley shown for the nothing they are.

Then we have the reprehensible and useless clean air act, and Harpers statements from just 3 short years ago stating he does not believe in Global Warming/Climate change. And then the NDP cooperatively, offered to help the CPC re-write it so it actually did something, and now the CPC's are stalling that in committee, wasting time and money..

Harper failed to implement Gomery's findings and recommendations, indeed Harper even went so far to the other side, as to make it impossible for high up officals to be held accountable. So much for any government accountability under Harper and the CPC.

Then we have the previously unaccounted for campaign donations worth 3 million. Makes the ad scam look small at 1 million.

Now the CPC are having NO bid contracts, and secret meetings for deep integration that Canadians are against. In fact he is doing things on the sly with input from those at the Banff meeting. That is really transparent and accountable, eh? Again the proof is here in this thread, and cannot be denied.

Harper has chucked aside decades long foreign policy, the proof is right here in this thread even.

Harper has a barely functionable minority government, that he got only because of Zacardelli's, interference in the election with his making a press release stating the RCMP were investigating another corrupt Liberal politician. That tipped the scales, it cannot be denied. However, as we all found out after, that should have never happpened, the RCMP never does such things, and that not only was there nothing found, against all people Goodale, but we also found out Zacardelli is a liar! The CPC got a 1 time 12% bounce in voter backing only because people were deceived into believing the Liberals had more scandal upcoming when it was not true.

Chretien had majority governments and that actually makes a mandate to do something, unlike minority governments that rely upon others to support them. Only Harper is not listening to the other 2/3rds of Canadians now is he. He won't even speak to the media in scrum, nor let MP's speak, and all media questions must be vetted first, for approval. Not exactly transparent and open, eh? In fact, it is so much like Bush it is scarey.

How badly the CPC are behaving in QP has been widely discussed here, and more than a few us have watched them. It, like all else mentioned, cannot be denied or rejected.

Then Harper said this regarding Muslims:

"a battle between a democratic state and terrorist groups who seek to destroy both it and its people is not a matter of shades of grey."

http://www.judeoscope.ca/article.php3?id_article=0534

Of course, Israel is the "democratic state" to which he refers while Iranians, Palestinians and Lebanese, and then by extension all Arabs, and of all of Islam, are "terrorists".

He has no business as the supposed leader of Canada to say such things. And has given unequivocal support to Israel. That he has done this bears very close watching, particularly is Israel is going to nuke Iran. The blood of innocent Iranians will be on the hands of each and every Canadian, plus the world wide effects, if they do.

Then we have the Income trust flip flop.

Then we have the court challenges program dissolved.

The national day care, that the majority of Canadians had long fought for, dumped in favour of a "taxable" 100 bucks per month that does nothing for low income and single parent families, or for families over the age limit that still needs day care.

Then we have the outrageously proposed income splitting that does nothing for single seniors, single parents, or low income families, or indeed single people of any age.

Then of course we have the theo-con agenda, again proved in a 12 page article also linked to in this thread.

Then of course we have Harper's ordering of far more military equipment that has NO purpose other than to lodge war, what is that other than war mongering? Moreover, he made only mention of air craft carriers in campaign, not all of this other stuff on top. And he just announced the purchase of even more tanks. Again he had NO mandate from Canadians to do this.

Please feel free to comment on posts rather than the poster as it is the rules here..

[sharkman]

Uh, when the poster in question (catchnme) consistantly harps on the same nonsense time and again, there is no room for debate. We get it, you hate Harper. Do yourself a favour and vote Liberal next election, but presenting as fact things that are highly debatable and are only driven by your Harper Derangement Syndrome, does not lend itself to discussion.

Your insistance that Israel will nuke Iran when you have no evidence save Israel's response (which does not include the word nuke ANYWHERE) to Iran's direct threats, which you conveniently ignore, show you for what you are.

[misterslumshine]

For those interested I did manage to find an article that spoke to the "Stephen Harper and the Theo-cons" from a Conservative view. It's located here and well worth the read:

Religion, madness and secular paranoia

By Michael Medved

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/column....l&comments=true

[Alexandra]

Please feel free to comment on posts rather than the poster as it is the rules here..

The title of this thread is: "Stephen Harper and the Theo-Cons" yet there is little, if anything, in these 'catchme' posts which have discussed or commented on the topic of this thread.

In connection with the Article, Ms. McDonald obviously is not nor has been acquainted with what she refers to as 'theo-cons' which are more often referred to as 'so-cons' in Canada. If she had been paying attention to the so-con blogs and message boards (such as F.Dominion, etc.) she would have perhaps been quite surprised to learn that the so-cons are furious with S. Harper, personally, and the CPC, generally.

After all, according to the very vocal so-cons, S. Harper has personally dis-allowed the nominations of certain prominent so-con potential candidates in ridings in various provinces and, S. Harper has personally put forward for nomination (in Vancouver center) a Gay person to run in this riding which is heavily populated by Gays/Lesbians. The so-cons have declared unequivocally that S. Harper is actually Pro-Abortion and always has been, regardless of which church he attends or how often he attends. The catholic and fundamentalist evangelists are refusing to donate their money or their time to the CPC campaigns as well because of S. Harper's refusal to champion their two causes: Anti-Gay and Pro-Life.

The McVety's, et al. have let it be known just how disappointed they are with S. Harper's lack of support for their two important issues; So. How is it that Ms. McDonald appears to be totally unaware of the so-con movement's absolute displeasure (disgust) with the policies of this S. Harper minority government, I wonder.

So. Rather than hi-jacking every thread topic on S. Harper and the CPC government catchme, stick to commenting on the actual topics please.

[Martin Chriton]

One need only go to the Harper threads, one would be the promises made thread, they were are quite definitley shown for the nothing they are.

Harper's promises are still a lot better than the Liberal's promises. When he makes promises he at least intends to keep them. Remember the Liberal's "scrap the GST" plan? They had no plan to do that. Or meet Kyoto targets, they know full well they can't be met.

Then we have the reprehensible and useless clean air act, and Harpers statements from just 3 short years ago stating he does not believe in Global Warming/Climate change. And then the NDP cooperatively, offered to help the CPC re-write it so it actually did something, and now the CPC's are stalling that in committee, wasting time and money..

Most of the quotes from Harper were not believing in Kyoto. He's as correct now as he ever was

Then we have the previously unaccounted for campaign donations worth 3 million. Makes the ad scam look small at 1 million.

Umm. Haven't heard anything about this, but not reporting who donated the money pisses me off a lot less than stealing it from the tax payers.

The national day care, that the majority of Canadians had long fought for, dumped in favour of a "taxable" 100 bucks per month that does nothing for low income and single parent families, or for families over the age limit that still needs day care.

Majority of Canadians? Don't think so! I'm tired off wasting my tax dollars on this socialist crap.

Then of course we have Harper's ordering of far more military equipment that has NO purpose other than to lodge war, what is that other than war mongering? Moreover, he made only mention of air craft carriers in campaign, not all of this other stuff on top. And he just announced the purchase of even more tanks. Again he had NO mandate from Canadians to do this.

Having a robust military is important. It lets us be a stabilizing force and also gives us the ability to aid Canadians in need.

[Canadian Blue]

Then we have the court challenges program dissolved.

Why should we be funding groups to set up court challenges against the government?

Then of course we have Harper's ordering of far more military equipment that has NO purpose other than to lodge war, what is that other than war mongering? Moreover, he made only mention of air craft carriers in campaign, not all of this other stuff on top. And he just announced the purchase of even more tanks. Again he had NO mandate from Canadians to do this.

It's called maintaining an actual national defense. For someone who used to be in the Armoured Corps, I'd think you would know our military has a primary role in preparing for any war.

Now the CPC are having NO bid contracts, and secret meetings for deep integration that Canadians are against. In fact he is doing things on the sly with input from those at the Banff meeting. That is really transparent and accountable, eh? Again the proof is here in this thread, and cannot be denied.

Their are alot of conspiracy theories out there.

Harper has chucked aside decades long foreign policy, the proof is right here in this thread even.

By not supporting positions which are at its core anti-Israel, and ignore the wrongdoing of any other nations.

Harper has a barely functionable minority government, that he got only because of Zacardelli's, interference in the election with his making a press release stating the RCMP were investigating another corrupt Liberal politician.

Wow, that's quite a stretch. It had nothing to do with Adscam, or any of the other Liberal boondoggles.

Chretien had majority governments and that actually makes a mandate to do something, unlike minority governments that rely upon others to support them. Only Harper is not listening to the other 2/3rds of Canadians now is he. He won't even speak to the media in scrum, nor let MP's speak, and all media questions must be vetted first, for approval. Not exactly transparent and open, eh? In fact, it is so much like Bush it is scarey.

Then why is his minority still in parliament, it could have been brought down in a vote anytime?

Bush has little control over congress and the senate Catchme, you're simply ignorant. I love your little conspiracy theories which have no merit at all, and most have been discussed such as the no bid contracts.

You've got retards on the right, retards of the left, that's all I'll say...

[PolyNewbie]

In fact, it is so much like Bush it is scarey.

I agree. He is worse because he can hide. Canadians are as preoccupied with US politics as Canada.

[sharkman]

In fact, it is so much like Bush it is scarey.

I agree. He is worse because he can hide. Canadians are as preoccupied with US politics as Canada.

Okay, what in the world does,"Cdns are as preoccupied with US politics as Canada," mean?

[BC_chick]

In connection with the Article, Ms. McDonald obviously is not nor has been acquainted with what she refers to as 'theo-cons' which are more often referred to as 'so-cons' in Canada. If she had been paying attention to the so-con blogs and message boards (such as F.Dominion, etc.) she would have perhaps been quite surprised to learn that the so-cons are furious with S. Harper, personally, and the CPC, generally.

Harper is a politician who has had a taste of power and likes it. His policies are not based in his personal beliefs, but rather, politics - he is doing what he has to do to stay in power.

IMO Political Conservatism in Canada is a paradox as a governing party because as we have seen with Harper, the platform of the the Conservative politician will falter in the face public opinion and consequently it will drive away his base.

But if it's any consolation, you do make a great opposition party.

[mtm]

I think that Harper would be foolish to not use religious groups to his advantage if they are ready and willing to support him. They command quite a pull over their flock. I don't however think there is much risk in him acting on their ideological standpoints. As long as he maintains the illusion and keeps those groups happy, I would think that is all that counts for him. Unfortunately for the anti-religio's it creates the appearance or fear that he may be working in their interests. It is kind of a balancing act.

I consider myself centre-leftish, but I think it would be absolutely nuts to not work religion into your campaign rhetoric as a lot of people vote that way. You need to convince them that you are on the 'moral high ground'. Its the same as the BHP in India or the Republicans in the USA. You need to do what you can to consolidate your base, and Harper is blessed in that he's in the party that Christians tend to lean towards. Progressives/small l liberals would pander to them too if they felt they could.

I honestly think that politicians are too savvy, naturally critical, too well educated, and far too motivated by personal goals and machiavellian instincts to be won over by religion. Its just a very powerful tool that can be used when required (see GWB). That is just my opinion of course.

I may not agree with Harper's policy or his style of governing, but I'm willing to say he's a very smart man. I wouldn't have said that 18 months ago, but hey, even I have to say, I've been surprised with his moves. He's got good people around him now and he seems to play the game well. Its all about the common man and he's realized it.

[BC_chick]

Alexandra,

To add to my previous post about Harper's stance being purely politically motivated and not genuine personal beliefs, I found something of interest on YouTube.

This clip demonstrates my claim above perfectly:

[Canadian Blue]

I thought at that time Harper supported civil union's.

Look at lets say Trudeau and all of the crazy things he supported, most politician's even with a majority will compromise on beliefs. If Harper were to gain a majority and attempt to bring back the traditional defenition of marriage then many MP's would be fighting against it within the tory caucus.

That video was excessively corny.

[geoffrey]

Harper is a politician who has had a taste of power and likes it. His policies are not based in his personal beliefs, but rather, politics - he is doing what he has to do to stay in power.

IMO Political Conservatism in Canada is a paradox as a governing party because as we have seen with Harper, the platform of the the Conservative politician will falter in the face public opinion and consequently it will drive away his base.

But if it's any consolation, you do make a great opposition party.

Your right, in a way. The Liberals and the CPC arrive at the same ends, through different paths... I honestly can't say my life would be any different under a Liberal government right now (sparing a financial attack on Alberta or something like that).

The CPC is a great opposition party, but they are just governing by the polls now. Which is ok I suppose, your getting an accountable government that is going with people's wishes that way. There was vision, but it was all lost after about week 2.

I think Harper has stuck to his platform rather admirably in a minority situation, minus the income trusts. So I disagree with that aspect of your argument.

This clip demonstrates my claim above perfectly:

There were ways of dealing with that issue far more reasonably then it was dealt with. The difference between a bright man like Harper and a crazy like Myron Thompson is that Harper moved on. He's not a so-con, there is absolutely no evidence of that.

It sounds like the guy is about to break into a gangsta rap at the beginning, I was hoping for something more entertaining.

[Catchme]

Alexandra,

To add to my previous post about Harper's stance being purely politically motivated and not genuine personal beliefs, I found something of interest on YouTube.

This clip demonstrates my claim above perfectly:

Thanks for that BC CHick

Let's expand on Harper's theo-coness, that Ms MacDonald quite clearly addresses in her article in all its ramifications like of a prominent Texas evangelical being a guest of Mcvety's and honouring Harper's activities in his speech, and McVety himself being an invitee of the CPC to sit in the Gallery on budget day. And then look at Darrel Reid being made Ms Ambrose's aide. Then let's look at the recent polls.

The fact is, there is nothing that supports, factually wise, a true chagrin on the part of evangelicals with Harper. I would postulate, because there is nothing but blathering from FD being used for evidence, the fact is there is nothing but false posturing going on by those who want to blurr the edges of Harper's theo-coness, so that Harper can get a majority. They are fully aware nothing can be done about their agenda unless the CPC have a majority. Hence the rhetoric geared towards theo-con displeasure, it's just the good old bait and switch propaganda ploy.

Harper has been throwing bones to the centre appearing just moderate enough to appease some, or trying to, by giving the appearance he is being un soc-con like. when as it has been point out, just by his use of "God Bless Canada" shows his theo-coness, and where he would take Canada. Having a gay in the CPC is nothing new, nor evidence that Harper is not theo-con. It is only evidence of pragmaticism to get re-elected.

[Canadian Blue]

Harper has been throwing bones to the centre appearing just moderate enough to appease some, or trying to, by giving the appearance he is being un soc-con like. when as it has been point out, just by his use of "God Bless Canada" shows his theo-coness, and where he would take Canada. Having a gay in the CPC is nothing new, nor evidence that Harper is not theo-con. It is only evidence of pragmaticism to get re-elected.

I'm not sure, but I think the Theocons are taking over Canada.

O Canada! Our home and native land!

True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,

The True North strong and free!

From far and wide, O Canada,

We stand on guard for thee.

God keep our land glorious and free!

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

I knew it!!! When the hell did they slip that in their.

[Wilber]

Harper is a politician who has had a taste of power and likes it. His policies are not based in his personal beliefs, but rather, politics - he is doing what he has to do to stay in power.

If so, he would be just out Liberaling the Liberals for a change.

[Saturn]

One need only go to the Harper threads, one would be the promises made thread, they were are quite definitley shown for the nothing they are.

Harper's promises are still a lot better than the Liberal's promises. When he makes promises he at least intends to keep them. Remember the Liberal's "scrap the GST" plan? They had no plan to do that. Or meet Kyoto targets, they know full well they can't be met.

When Harper makes promises he makes them because he intends to gain votes from them, not because he intends to keep them. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that Harper's promises are any better than those of the Liberals. Even worse, after lots of posturing, loudly condemning the Liberals and making passionate promises, I've see Harper turn around and do the exact opposite of what he promised a few months later.

[southerncomfort]

Let's expand on Harper's theo-coness, that Ms MacDonald quite clearly addresses in her article in all its ramifications like of a prominent Texas evangelical being a guest of Mcvety's and honouring Harper's activities in his speech, and McVety himself being an invitee of the CPC to sit in the Gallery on budget day. And then look at Darrel Reid being made Ms Ambrose's aide. Then let's look at the recent polls.

His Theo-coness wot in ell is that supposed to mean and all its ramifications sorry, I'm falling off my chair laffin here, I find it hard to take this seriously it is so funny.

Sort of unreal sure not normal even for people from rabble. the same thing was posted there http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php...ic&f=2&t=009317 Most people on mapleleaf have a more balanced view, with facts to back them up. Not on the same level of debate for here.

I read that article it sure doesn't relate to Canadian politics. Heck there's a big stink on right now over a gal Stillwell not getting on the nomination ballot - I think she used to be with the Christian Heritage Party. If facts get in your way - heck - just make it up as you go along

[Catchme]

I am glad you caught my theo-coness statement, after all Harper does have a good case of of a messianic complex, or his highnessness. Though it would go right over many heads here.

Boy, could you point to some threads where people provide the proof you talk about and who exhibit a partisian bias to Harper? I have not seen too many, it seems they are an endangered species. And I would most certainly book mark where they do, as a reminder that occassionally something more is offeredup except personal opinion.

Oops, that is not a good use of words there, after all, Harper et al do not believe in environmental damage caused by Global Warming or endangered species. I suppose I should have said it would be a rare find or occurance.

[geoffrey]

Harper et al do not believe in environmental damage caused by Global Warming or endangered species.

Their actions in government say otherwise... what did the Liberals do for Global Warming exactly, or the Great Bear Rainforest?

[southerncomfort]

Harper et al do not believe in environmental damage caused by Global Warming or endangered species.

Their actions in government say otherwise... what did the Liberals do for Global Warming exactly, or the Great Bear Rainforest?

Nothing, but environmental issues are the new religion I think and I guess we are supposed to bow that god now. Boy, I'm putting someone on ignore, too much to scroll through, and it sure is ruining this board.

[Catchme]

Harper et al do not believe in environmental damage caused by Global Warming or endangered species.

Their actions in government say otherwise... what did the Liberals do for Global Warming exactly, or the Great Bear Rainforest?

What actions geoffery please do list them?

The Great Bear Rain forest federal funding was already in place, prior to the advent of the CPC on the federal stage. The CPC just decided to follow through with it, as an attempt of PR. It is primarily and provincial iniative, that the LIberals had promised to help with. So it has little or nothing to do with the CPC other than it was convienent for them to follow through.

The same can be said to the money for alternative energy, it was a Liberal iniative that the CPC followed through on to try and make it appear as if they were NOW all of a sudden green, because public consensus was quite clearly against their failures with the outrageous Clean Air Act.