Stephen Harper and the Theo-cons

[misterslumshine]

Hi! Sorry to jump right into this issue without much insight into my reasons, but..

What are your thoughts on to what degree Stephen Harper is affiliated with evangelical insitutions in this country and how much does it influnce his policy, both foreign and national?

Having just read the Marci McDonald article "Stephen Harper and the Theo-cons", I am very interested to hear from Conservatives as to the validity of that article and it's suppositions, and to have any articles that are in answer to, or in opposition to the premise that Stephen Harper is motivated by a secret, Christian fundamentalist agenda.

Lets see where this gets me...

[geoffrey]

What are your thoughts on to what degree Stephen Harper is affiliated with evangelical insitutions in this country and how much does it influnce his policy, both foreign and national?

When going to Church is a bad thing, our country is in serious trouble.

Harper is no more directed by Christian evangelicals as Dion is by France. Both are a member of institutions but neither is controlled by them.

Harper has been extremly moderate on social issues. He has no desire to waste time with such trivial matters really.

I don't think you'll ever see Harper preside over a gay marriage, but I don't think he's going to ever reverse any social policies in Canada based on his religion or make Canada into a theocracy.

It's just not happening. We also do have a court that is definitely libertarian in nature, it would stand up to any political move by the Conservatives in the case they got a majority.

Martin was affiliated with offshore bankers, Dion is with France... whatever, doesn't matter. Policies are what matter and I see no reason to fear some evangelical influence on Harper.

[misterslumshine]

What are your thoughts on to what degree Stephen Harper is affiliated with evangelical insitutions in this country and how much does it influnce his policy, both foreign and national?

When going to Church is a bad thing, our country is in serious trouble.

Harper is no more directed by Christian evangelicals as Dion is by France. Both are a member of institutions but neither is controlled by them.

Harper has been extremly moderate on social issues. He has no desire to waste time with such trivial matters really.

I don't think you'll ever see Harper preside over a gay marriage, but I don't think he's going to ever reverse any social policies in Canada based on his religion or make Canada into a theocracy.

It's just not happening. We also do have a court that is definitely libertarian in nature, it would stand up to any political move by the Conservatives in the case they got a majority.

Martin was affiliated with offshore bankers, Dion is with France... whatever, doesn't matter. Policies are what matter and I see no reason to fear some evangelical influence on Harper.

The article I referred to insinuates that Stephen Harper is making agenda, and policies based largely on his belief that the apocalypse is coming...ie stepping away from Kyoto because if it's Gods plan to destroy the Earth then so be it... backing Israel for religious reasons... it also draws the conclusion that Canadians should beware of his religious agenda as it will lead Canadians down the same road as the Bush administration.

The article places Stephen Harper in the company of extremist evangelicals like Reverend John Hagee, a prominent Texan televangelist, Charles Mcvety, President of the Canada Christian College, Pastor Bill Buitenwerf, a member of the East Gate Alliance Church, Dave Quist, Executive Director of the Institute of Marriage and Family Canada, Rob and Fran Parker, Founders of the National House of Prayer, Ralph Reed, American marketing mogul, and Reverend John Tweedie, the Chairman of the Netherlands based Christians For Israel Foundation.

Its states that due to his affiliation with these radicals we should be wary of his motives.

[misterslumshine]

What I am actually looking for here is an article that refutes the claims of Marci McDonald(Who is an award winning journalist) that the Harper Cabinet is pushing the evangelical agenda.

[Alexandra]

What I am actually looking for here is an article that refutes the claims of Marci McDonald(Who is an award winning journalist) that the Harper Cabinet is pushing the evangelical agenda.

Article? What Article and, who is Marci McDonald?

[misterslumshine]

What I am actually looking for here is an article that refutes the claims of Marci McDonald(Who is an award winning journalist) that the Harper Cabinet is pushing the evangelical agenda.

Sorry..here is the article in question...

http://www.walrusmagazine.com/articles/pol...d-the-theocons/

[PolyNewbie]

Its a central banker plan to destroy civilization as we know it. Its not religious, its just being made to seem that way. The bankers want to cut the world population down by 90 % or so and re create a myth based society.

This means all those people like lawyers who think they can go along with the banker plan and they will be OK because they have lots of money are wrong because the oligarchy wants knowledge of things like the magna carta forgotten.

If you think I am being far out here and you do not think the bankers have this power then you should watch "The Money Masters" video, a free video on google that explains it best. There are many books on the subject on various monetary reform websites.

The banks control everything - education, medacine, who gets elected, how long we live and what we see on TV and read from publishing houses. All the text books go through UNESCO for approval.

Our future depends on the general population, police and military learning this. We live in the information age its not hard to learn the truth about things if you look. Of course many people just want to bury their head in the sand.

It my belief that to stop this we must inform as amny people as possible about how our banks create money from nothing and we earn it and then subsequently owe earned money back to them. Their emmense profits dwarf all corporate profits and provide them with money to fund foundations, think tanks and focus groups that determine the nature of the world.

In my other thread "Banker/Wall Street Governenace- wake up or die" I have plenty of presidential and banker quotes as well as multiple sources in video and in books where you can read about this.

Orson Wells wrote "The New World Order" back in the early part of the last century. I put a link up to an Aldous Huxley speech in 1962 that explains this. The writers of Brave New World & 1984 had something to tell us and they were close to the New World Order Agenda.

George Lucas was also anti New World Order. Our Governments are building their death stars now and planning both private police and private prisons. Many detention centers are being built all over the country...who are these for ?.

[jdobbin]

Martin was affiliated with offshore bankers, Dion is with France... whatever, doesn't matter. Policies are what matter and I see no reason to fear some evangelical influence on Harper.

What banks exactly offshore had influence over Paul Martin? I'd like to know their names.

An who in France has influence over Stephane Dion? I'd like to know their names as well.

It all seems like conspiracy talk to me.

[scribblet]

Hi! Sorry to jump right into this issue without much insight into my reasons, but..

What are your thoughts on to what degree Stephen Harper is affiliated with evangelical insitutions in this country and how much does it influnce his policy, both foreign and national?

Having just read the Marci McDonald article "Stephen Harper and the Theo-cons", I am very interested to hear from Conservatives as to the validity of that article and it's suppositions, and to have any articles that are in answer to, or in opposition to the premise that Stephen Harper is motivated by a secret, Christian fundamentalist agenda.

Lets see where this gets me...

Obviously Harper's actions today put a lie to any propaganda abut 'theocons' and a secret agenda. Harper is not affilliated with any religious institutions other than the church he personally attends, and that is his business. We do know that the few social cons. are miffed because Harper has been too moderate.

The scary scary tactics havn't worked, so they are now ramping up the anti christian rhetoric. Obviously there are groups including religious groups who lobby for various causes, they are all entitled to a voice in our democracy. So far, Harper has done nothing to promote any evangelical cause.

I see no reason why MSM should report on John Hagee being in Canada, it wasn't a newsworthy event for Canadians. Well, newsworthy for those who write articles which merely insinuate with intent to malign.

insinuates that Stephen Harper is making agenda, and policies based largely on his belief that the apocalypse is coming...ie stepping away from Kyoto because if it's Gods plan to destroy the Earth then so be it... backing Israel for religious reasons... i

That is simply what it says, insinuation, nothing more than spurious attempts to smear Harper and promote their own agenda. I've no idea what this business of the apocalypse is about, I'm conservative but it means nothing to me, neither does evangelical fundamentalism. To each his own.

[sharkman]

What I am actually looking for here is an article that refutes the claims of Marci McDonald(Who is an award winning journalist) that the Harper Cabinet is pushing the evangelical agenda.

So you have an article(someone's opinion) that tries to smear Harper, and you would like another article (again, someone's opinion) that disagrees with your article? I see you just joined this forum quite recently, probably over this one issue. At any rate, it sounds like Mcdonald is a Rabble contributer, their usual strategy is to fearmonger about Harper and something to do with the U.S. In this case, it's U.S. style fundamentalism, with the generous smattering of U.S. evangelists mentioned. We don't have much in the way of the Canadian equivalent to these.

Harper is in FAVOUR of gay marriage, he just wants to call it civil unions. If he was being influenced by a Canadian religious right, he'd be all over the gay marriage thing.

I suggest you try reading more balanced articles.

[August1991]

Having just read the Marci McDonald article "Stephen Harper and the Theo-cons", I am very interested to hear from Conservatives as to the validity of that article and it's suppositions, and to have any articles that are in answer to, or in opposition to the premise that Stephen Harper is motivated by a secret, Christian fundamentalist agenda.

I haven't read this article (and it is usual practice to provide a link).

I have two thoughts: why does the Left always look for fancy new names to describe old things. The term Neo-Cons has now become Theo-Cons. Why? (And why such terms as Neo-Con or Theo-Con anyway?)

Second, the "scary, scary" Harper routine doesn't work anymore. Canada's Left would do better to argue issues rather than righteously demonize an opponent.

-----

I just read through the link you provided above until I got to this quote concerning Harper saying God bless Canada" and I started laughing:

If, as suspected, Harper was sending a message to the country’s estimated 3.5 million evangelicals?—?not to mention the 44 percent of Canadians who tell pollsters they’ve committed their lives to Christ?—?what was he trying to tell them?

As suspected?

Marci McDonald is on to the secret code. I guess the game is up now.

Somebody on this forum once argued that the Walrus was a reputable magazine of intelligent debate. Sorry, it's just boring old, unoriginal Leftism - with the occasional howler thrown in by accident.

[Saturn]

Its a central banker plan to destroy civilization as we know it. Its not religious, its just being made to seem that way. The bankers want to cut the world population down by 90 % or so and re create a myth based society.

[newbie]

"... So far, Harper has done nothing to promote any evangelical cause..."

His futile attempts to quash same sex marriage was definitely an evangelical cause. And what other Canadian conservative leader has ever tossed around "God bless Canada" as a tag to speeches.

[Saturn]

What are your thoughts on to what degree Stephen Harper is affiliated with evangelical insitutions in this country and how much does it influnce his policy, both foreign and national?

Having just read the Marci McDonald article "Stephen Harper and the Theo-cons", I am very interested to hear from Conservatives as to the validity of that article and it's suppositions, and to have any articles that are in answer to, or in opposition to the premise that Stephen Harper is motivated by a secret, Christian fundamentalist agenda.

I'm not really a Conservative but I don't think that Harper even believes in god. He is simply giving the neo-cons good access to himself and is making them feel like they have more influences over government than they really do. He needs their support to get to a bigger and better place but he isn't doing it for them. Similarly to US neo-cons and Bush, they'll eventually realize that he isn't really one of them and that they've been had.

[scribblet]

"... So far, Harper has done nothing to promote any evangelical cause..."

His futile attempts to quash same sex marriage was definitely an evangelical cause. And what other Canadian conservative leader has ever tossed around "God bless Canada" as a tag to speeches.

It has been explained to you over and over again, he is not against gays having a union, and all the benefits that entails. He and many others, did not want to see the traditional definition of marriage changed. As I understand it, evangelicals and others do not want even that.

I see nothing wrong with God Bless Canada, it is in keeping with the founding Fathers ideas and Canada's heritage; or maybe we should change the preamble to the constitution: "Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law."

or maybe we should remove the biblical inscriptions over the Peace Tower:

"He shall have dominion also from sea to sea."

"Give the King thy judgments O God and thy righteousness unto the King’s son".

"Without a vision, my people perish" and "GiveT hy Kings Thy Judgement and Thy Sons Thy Righteousness" (or something like that) are carved into the arches as well.

God is fairly generic, it can be any God you wish to be, heck it could even be the God of the secular humanists

[Catchme]

What I am actually looking for here is an article that refutes the claims of Marci McDonald(Who is an award winning journalist) that the Harper Cabinet is pushing the evangelical agenda.

..here is the article in question...

http://www.walrusmagazine.com/articles/pol...d-the-theocons/

Not sure why you are asking for an article rebutting Harper's evangelical agenda.

First of all, most here, who profess Harper leanings, seem to almost never provide proof of anything, it seems their personal opinion/denial is enough usually for them. Though they are NOT hesitant to request proof from others, which they never look at anyway, so really it is a fruitless excercise.

Then of course is the fact Harpers evangelical agenda cannot be rebutted, there might be some surface denials, but they do not hold up to close scrutiny.

Harper, using "God Bless" Canada is enough proof in and of itself, without alll the additional evidence that is available and that MS MacDonald wrote of. It is a very good article BTW, thank you.

Unlike the tabloid the Western Standard, the Walrus actually provides truth, facts and substance. And not emotional rhetoric and propaganda that Levant spews.

Then when you add:

During this summer’s Middle East war, Harper reversed decades of Canadian foreign policy with his adamant support for Israel, even after its jets smashed a clearly marked United Nations observation post, killing a veteran Canadian peacekeeper. His admirers argue that steadfastness could turn the burgeoning bond between evangelical Christians and Jews into a powerful and unprecedented alliance that could leave him unbeatable at the ballot box. But a growing chorus of critics warns that Harper has already paid a high price for that strategic calculation, irrevocably alienating Canada’s mushrooming Islamic population and leaving in shreds the country’s reputation as an even-handed peace broker.

Why after all would he do such a thing? He is a minority government with his party having 24% of the popular vote. He has NO mandate from Canadians to do such thing. So, his motivations lay elsewhere. In fact he said so himself.

[scribblet]

Actually the CPC got 36 per cent of the popular vote last election,, nationally compared with 30 per cent for the Liberals, 17 per cent points for the NDP and 10 per cent for the Bloc Québécois. (Globe and Mail)24% was the previous one. CTV says same thing:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...60123/20060123/

The article provided no proof whatsoever, it was all innuendo and speculation - John Hagee coming to Canada is no proof of anything other than - hey guess what - he came to Canada. God Bless Canada - so what, nothing unusual or nefarious about that.

The attempts to demonize Harper and the CPC by trying to 'tie' him into U.S. evangelicals and the apocolypse or whatever, is grasping at straws. So far Harper's actions and intent have proven all of these drive by smears as malicious and groundless and for sure don't hold up to close scrutiny,

[geoffrey]

Martin was affiliated with offshore bankers, Dion is with France... whatever, doesn't matter. Policies are what matter and I see no reason to fear some evangelical influence on Harper.

What banks exactly offshore had influence over Paul Martin? I'd like to know their names.

An who in France has influence over Stephane Dion? I'd like to know their names as well.

It all seems like conspiracy talk to me.

And give me the names of the people that have influence over Harper in the religious community.

My point is that all those claims are ridiculous.

[scribblet]

And give me the names of the people that have influence over Harper in the religious community.

My point is that all those claims are ridiculous.

Of course they are, but ramping up the rhetoric and accusations gets it more 'air time' or more exposure on line. Less informed gullible sheeples tend to believe anything. You know how it goes - Lenin's Useful Idiots.

I see 'remind' has posted it now on rabble, it will be well received there.

[geoffrey]

Why after all would he do such a thing? He is a minority government with his party having 24% of the popular vote. He has NO mandate from Canadians to do such thing. So, his motivations lay elsewhere. In fact he said so himself.

24%??? Where did you get that number???

The reason he did it is quite simple. You can't be even handed between a secular western style democracy and a terrorist faction. I strongly support Harper's Israel policy, there won't be peace until Hezbollah and Hamas are completely destroyed. You can't make peace with terrorists.

[Canadian Blue]

Why after all would he do such a thing? He is a minority government with his party having 24% of the popular vote. He has NO mandate from Canadians to do such thing. So, his motivations lay elsewhere. In fact he said so himself.

So if Harper has no mandate, does that mean we should disband government. That's the most innane, ignorant comment I've heard.

But it's expected with the kind of ridiculous comment's you have made on here before.

[Catchme]

Yes, it grows very close to the time when this government should be disbanded.

Considering:

Harper's secretive movement towards deep integration and trying to do it and trying to pull the wool over Canadians eyes. Exampled by giving out NO BID contracts.

Harper's chucking aside for NO reason decades long Canadian foreign policy, with NO mandate to do, or indeed to do anything much at all.

Harper's failure to to acknowledge and do anything about the state of the environment.

Harpers failure to meet his 5 promises in his election campaign.

Harper's quite obvious Theo-con agenda which appears to be motivating his actions.

Harper's failure to create any accountability in government.

Harper's failure to be open and transparent to Canadians.

Harper's and the CPC continuing to make QP and the HoC a mockery, with their lies, yelling and conduct unbecoming.

Harper's war mongering and outrageous labelling of peoples in the world.

This list goes on please feel free to add to it people.

[sharkman]

Yes, it grows very close to the time when this government should be disbanded.

Considering:

Harper's secretive movement towards deep integration and trying to do it and trying to pull the wool over Canadians eyes. Exampled by giving out NO BID contracts.

Harper's chucking aside for NO reason decades long Canadian foreign policy, with NO mandate to do, or indeed to do anything much at all.

Harper's failure to to acknowledge and do anything about the state of the environment.

Harpers failure to meet his 5 promises in his election campaign.

Harper's quite obvious Theo-con agenda which appears to be motivating his actions.

Harper's failure to create any accountability in government.

Harper's failure to be open and transparent to Canadians.

Harper's and the CPC continuing to make QP and the HoC a mockery, with their lies, yelling and conduct unbecoming.

Harper's war mongering and outrageous labelling of peoples in the world.

This list goes on please feel free to add to it people.

Quit trolling catchme, at least try to base your dogma on reality.

[scribblet]

Yes, it grows very close to the time when this government should be disbanded.

Are you for real? Toto - I'm not in Kansas anymore.

[jdobbin]

And give me the names of the people that have influence over Harper in the religious community.

My point is that all those claims are ridiculous.

I've never made that claim about the religious community or about Harper.