Palestinians Attack Canadian Tourists

[geoffrey]

How about I use a CBC source so no bias claims are made here:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/02/10/s...e-violence.html

A Canadian tour bus was attacked Saturday as sightseers in East Jerusalem became the target of protests over a disputed holy site.

It's obviously a tour bus from the photo. These Palestinians are just crazy. What the hell are they doing attacking international civilians?

The Canadians were on a tour of the Mount of Olives holy site when they were caught in the middle of the continued violence.

Palestinians blocked roads with burning garbage bins and hurled bottles and other objects at the travellers' bus, witnesses said.

I really have little trouble with pulling any remaining aid from the Palestinian Authority until they can maintain order and prevent our nationals from being attacked. Let them starve if need be, they have to learn somehow. This is outrageous. I expect a condemnation from Harper shortly.

[myata]

You forgot to mention that the protest was sparkled by Israel's work around the holy site which apparently weren't cooridinated with the religious authorities of the mosque. The operators of the tour should have known better than to take tourists to the site which in the midst of a trouble.

It's an unfortunate incident but I doubt it gives you grounds to blame all palestinians indiscriminately.

[guyser]

It's an unfortunate incident but I doubt it gives you grounds to blame all palestinians indiscriminately.

I doubt that will stop him . The tour people should have known better, but this seems on the surface to be a one off incident.

[Catchme]

Wow, and 4 Canadians were killed in Mexico and they didn't react llike this. Why not?

Oh, that's right, some people are trying to erroneously inflame sentiments against ALL Muslims.

[Argus]

Wow, and 4 Canadians were killed in Mexico and they didn't react llike this. Why not?

Oh, that's right, some people are trying to erroneously inflame sentiments against ALL Muslims.

Would those people be mostly Muslims? Because they're the ones who are to blame for inflaming sentiments against Muslims.

[myata]

Right. Why stop with PA? Cancel all programs with Mexico! Withdraw from NAFTA for that matter. And we should check if perhaps, any Canadians suffered in the US of late?

[geoffrey]

You forgot to mention that the protest was sparkled by Israel's work around the holy site which apparently weren't cooridinated with the religious authorities of the mosque. The operators of the tour should have known better than to take tourists to the site which in the midst of a trouble.

Last time I checked city crews don't have to get the Father's permissions before they tear up a sewer in front of a Church. The idea that Israel would harm this Holy site is ridiculous, they knew better, and the whole world is watching them closely on this. Your buying Hamas's propaganda.

Blame the operators all you wish, these hooligans had a choice to attack civilians or not. They chose to do so.

It's an unfortunate incident but I doubt it gives you grounds to blame all palestinians indiscriminately.

No, it's not an unfortunate incident. These hooligans willinging and knowingly attacked civilians riding in a marked civilian transport. That's a problem. When their government doesn't come out and apologise to Canada immediately and investigate complete, I have major issues with this.

Right. Why stop with PA? Cancel all programs with Mexico! Withdraw from NAFTA for that matter. And we should check if perhaps, any Canadians suffered in the US of late?

The difference, Mexico at least investigated (and their investigations were reasonably comparable to our corners findings in Canada).

The PA did nothing to stop this. They won't investigate and jail the assaulters. That's an issue.

We look at Mexico which is reasonably secular (though roughly Catholic) and moves towards peaceful ends. Then we have the PA which is hardline Islamic extremist, and has a party in majority power that's mandate is to wipe a country off the map. It's not really tough to see the moral disparity between the two.

[myata]

And you may want to check if you didn't already happen to know that East Jerusalem is an occupied territory. To start messing around a holy site without consultation with the other side, especially given the situation with mutual trust between the parties, is to ask for a trouble. Which they predictably got. No surprise there.

To the rest of your post, it's of course plain ridiculous to compare responsibilities of a government in an occupied territory with that of countries which have full control over its territory and resources.

And, on the factual side, I do not believe that the site in question actually is under the control of the PA - it's being occupied by Israel, against international law. So, your anger seem to be misdirected.

[Black Dog]

The PA did nothing to stop this. They won't investigate and jail the assaulters. That's an issue.

Just out of curiosity, is the area in question under the PA juridstiction? If Israel is responsible for infrastructure, then it stands to reason that they'd be responsible for security, no?

[Drea]

Go into a war zone and expect..... NOT to get attacked?

Any idiot that travels to the middle east for a "vacation" needs to give his/her head a shake.

Do we all have big friggin' "C's" over our heads so those bad muslims can tell we are the "good guys"? Sheesh.

[guyser]

Go into a war zone and expect..... NOT to get attacked?

Any idiot that travels to the middle east for a "vacation" needs to give his/her head a shake.

Do we all have big friggin' "C's" over our heads so those bad mudslims can tell we are the "good guys"? Sheesh.

I take it that geography is not one of your strong suits?

What the heck is a "mudslim" ?

[Drea]

Please help me out and tell me in which country the bus was attacked by rockthrowers?

Germany? Italy? France? I can see your underpants!

Doh! any idiot knows not to vacation in a war torn area (Palestine/Isreal/Lebanon/Iraq/etc) .

"Mudslim" -- ooops typo -- hit the "d" and the "s" at the same time -- I will fix.

[Drea]

Well?

Guyser?

Were they in Italy?

Were they in France?

I KNOW! they were vacationing in Hawaii!!

Please do tell me -- I am after all soo very handicapped regarding geography. I sit in eager anticipation of receiving your incredible knowledge...

[guyser]

Any idiot that travels to the middle east for a "vacation" needs to give his/her head a shake.

Were they in Italy?

Were they in France?

Italy and France are part of the Middle East? Who knew...not me thats for sure

Want to try again?

[Drea]

Oh...FFS -- thicker n' pea soup Martha!

I said this:

Go into a war zone and expect..... NOT to get attacked?

Any idiot that travels to the middle east for a "vacation" needs to give his/her head a shake.

Do we all have big friggin' "C's" over our heads so those bad muslims can tell we are the "good guys"? Sheesh.

and you said this in response:

I take it that geography is not one of your strong suits?

So tell me -- how am I wrong in the geographic location of the middle east?

Then I went on to imply -----------> if they were not attacked in the MIDDLE EAST, then where were they attacked? Germany? Italy? France? In your underpants?

Friggin thiiiiiiiiick man.

[Rue]

"And you may want to check if you didn't already happen to know that East Jerusalem is an occupied territory."

East Jerusalem is not an occupied territory. Jerusalem is not and never was a territory. Why don't you at least make appropriate historical and political references. The area in Jerusalem was to be an international city. The League of Nations had a mandate to create a state for Jews and then work with the Jews and Muslism in the area to create an international city.

The British breached their promise to the Leage of Nations to create a Jewish homeland and unilaterally seized 80% of Palestine and created the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan which they awarded to one of two Princes of today's Saudi royal family as pay back for fighting for the British in their victory against the Turks in World War One. Britain also created another artificial state, Iraq and gave it to the other son as pay-back and the French carved out Lebanon and Syria leaving Jews and left-over Muslims in what is now Israel, the West Bank and Gaza. Get your history straight. Jordan illegally seized East Jerusalem just as they did the West Bank. Teh West Bank and East Jerusalem was never a territory. A territory is a politically defined land. The West Bank and Gaza remain undefined although the practical effect of Oslo and current arrangements is that the PLO and Hamas are fighting for control of them.

East Jerusalem was taken by the Israelis after the 1967 war in an act of self-defence only after Jordan massed troops on its borders with Iraq and Syria preparing to invade Israel.

Until the time of Israel's taking over East Jerusalem it is a fact the Jewish sites were destroyed. Muslims defecated, urinated and destroeyd Jewish sites and stripped precious antiquities selling them to tourists and on the black market for pittance. That Sir is a fact.

"To start messing around a holy site without consultation with the other side, especially given the situation with mutual trust between the parties, is to ask for a trouble."

You are dead wrong. Not only did they advise and consult with Mulsim clergy they still are as we speak. do your homework.

"To the rest of your post, it's of course plain ridiculous to compare responsibilities of a government in an occupied territory with that of countries which have full control over its territory and resources."

The PLO and Hamas have full control over the West Bank and Gaza. You again are talking pure drivel. You are mistaking the fact that Israel sends in its troops to go after terrorists with the fact that the PLO and Hamas administer the West Bank NOT Israel.

"I do not believe that the site in question actually is under the control of the PA - it's being occupied by Israel, against international law."

You are wrong again twice. For starters the West Bank is undefined territory so your legal contentuion it is against international law for Israel to go into the West Bank after terrorists is b.s. Under international law, Israel has the right let alone the moral obligation to create and maintain safe borders and if that means going into the West bank to prevent terrorist attacks it will. Israel's troops do not occupy the West Bank. That is b.s. They are in particular sites and for the most part have no contact with the Palestinians in the West Bank.

Secondly you can deny all you want that the PLO was given full administration of the West Bank but your denial is absurd. It is a fact.

Now Myata let us deal with reality not your selective distortion of what you want to be true. The Muslim world and Palestinian groups have routinely accused Israel of threatening Muslim holy sites for decades. It is a tiresome propaganda exercise turned to time and time again and it works with people like you who are not interested in what is really happening. They have been doing this since the 1920's when the Mufti of Jerusalem back then first used this tactic to incite riots for political reasons.

If you bother to research this latest alleged crisis you will find it started last year when Sheikh Mohammad Hussein, the director of the Al-Aksa Foundation, made false accusations that Israel is excavating under the Temple Mount with the intention of destroying the Al-Aksa mosque (Palestinian National Authority, Dec. 13, 2005) and now this is being parroted by the Iranian government, Hamas, Hezbollah and the usual line-up of Muslim extremists. This charge is a complete fabrication. Its made up. Its fiction. The most recent construction in fact deals with the development of a new visitors centre built around new findings excavated near the Western Wall and now a path.

These discoveries at the new site include a ritual bath from the period of the second Jewish Temple which was destroyed in 70 AD. They also found a wall archaeologists speculate dates back to the first Jewish Temple, said to have been destroyed in 586 BCE.

Work has been done in the tunnel area that has now been open to tourists for several years. The tunnel area is NOT underneath the Temple Mount and nowhere near the Al-Aksa mosque!

In fact the Sheikh is upset because he feels the centre will and I quote his words;

“show a fabricated heritage that might help them to deceive foreign visitors into believing Jerusalem as a historical place of the Jews".

If you want to deal with what is actually happening you will find the Israeli government's archeological excavations near the Temple Mount have been done with great care prior to replacing a derelict bridge which will provide the public with safe access to the Temple Mount.

The Palestinain Hamas Leader Haniyeh is deliberately fabircating stories for pure propaganda purposes and it works in the sense that young people like Ahab get all wound up without bothering to do any research. Well it works on the Ahabs of this world who get caught up in a hate frenzy.

The Mount has been administered by the Muslim Waqf who allowed this pillaging.

All that is happening is the simple replacement of an access bridge to the Mount. No more no less.

Uh hello. In case anyone has not noticed, Jews were not allowed to pray at the Temple Mount until 1967 when the IDF had to seize rightful access.

It was the Muslims who chose to destroy the Jewish Temple and build on top of it.

At this time, Jewish people are relegated to the Western Wall below and not allowed unfettered access to the Mount because of the intolerance and hateful reactions including stone throwing by the Muslims.

By thwe way a UPI reporter Joshua Brilliant attended the Foundation press conference during which a misleading film was shown trying to fake the charges.

This journalist then investigated the tunnel and found no evidence of any excavation in the direction of the mosque.

[White Doors]

ZINGER~!

[guyser]

Oh...FFS -- thicker n' pea soup Martha!

Friggin thiiiiiiiiick man.

You need not be so hard on yourself. It is not good for your heart. For your information, I really dont think you are as thick as pea soup....more like gazpacho.

So when I go to Egypt and then on to Turkey "I " wont be an idiot. But you will wake up the same as always.

But please, dont be calling yourself names over this. It is not worth it.

[guyser]

Rue ,

Thank you, it is always good to learn at least one new thing a day. Your post in fact taught me a couple more than that.

[Remiel]

Can you give a little clarification on one point, Rue? Wasn't the Second Temple destroyed by the Romans, and as you already pointed out, hundreds of years before there was any such thing as a Muslim?

Also, they didn't just randomly decide to build the Al-Aqsa Mosque there. Isn't it supposed to be located on the site where Mohammed supposedely ascended to Heaven?

[myata]

Hi Rue,

your posts tend to be too long and throw in too much unnessessary data (not information!) for a reasonable discussion. Do you mean to say that the works near the mosque did not happen? I haven't done PhD research on this, but I heard on CBC news Israeli general advising against it. Against something that never happened that is? They also brought a cleric from the mosque live and he stated that there was no consultation. And so on.

Now, have it ever dawned on you to question how and on what authority British could "promise to the league of nations to create a Jewish homeland" on other peoples lands, even if it were true?

[Drea]

Oh...FFS -- thicker n' pea soup Martha!

Friggin thiiiiiiiiick man.

You need not be so hard on yourself. It is not good for your heart. For your information, I really dont think you are as thick as pea soup....more like gazpacho.

So when I go to Egypt and then on to Turkey "I " wont be an idiot. But you will wake up the same as always.

But please, dont be calling yourself names over this. It is not worth it.

whatever sweety. Have a lovely day. Please, don't bother coming back -- please stay in the "middle east". And don't whine and cry if you are attacked. After all NO ONE is forcing you to "vacation" in hell.

And *******-- the bus that was attacked was NOT in Egypt or Turkey.

[myata]

You are wrong again twice. For starters the West Bank is undefined territory so your legal contentuion it is against international law for Israel to go into the West Bank after terrorists is b.s. Under international law, Israel has the right let alone the moral obligation to create and maintain safe borders and if that means going into the West bank to prevent terrorist attacks it will. Israel's troops do not occupy the West Bank. That is b.s. They are in particular sites and for the most part have no contact with the Palestinians in the West Bank.

Sorry, only just noticed this great part, most worthy of quoting. So Isreal's forces are there on the West bank "to protect safe borders", eh? Nothing to do with illegal settlements, no? Only moral obligation. And no, Israel doesn not occupy Palestine and their checkpoints don't affect Palestinians in any way. What other revelations do you have for us? Just don't make it too long, so that each one can be quoted and dealt with separately on its own merit.

[guyser]

And dickwad -- the bus that was attacked was NOT in Egypt or Turkey.

I know that , and it seems that everyone else did too,well with one glaring exception....ahem.....

But "any idiot who travels to the Middle East"...... Egypt and Turkey are in the Middle East, thus the question about geography.

I hear your apology , and it is accepted. Thank you ! Carry on.

[Drea]

You're welcome