Melanie_ Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 Compensation to be announced tomorrow. Personal compensation of $10 Million, plus legal costs, and formal apology. This is on the National right now. Quote For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. Nelson Mandela
geoffrey Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 $10mil? How do they justify such a large sum? This sets a terribly dangerous precedent for Canada. I hope we don't end up shelling out this kind of cash to everyone that claims someone looked at them the wrong way in a foreign country. I can imagine those Mexican tourists are going to be next in line. We have no responsibility for a dual citizen in their home nation IMO. If Syria came and invaded Canada to 'liberate' one of their citizens, it'd be unacceptable. Why do we expect Canada to do the same? Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") --
madmax Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 $10mil? How do they justify such a large sum?This sets a terribly dangerous precedent for Canada. Why don't you ask Stockwell Day? Quote
jdobbin Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 $10mil? How do they justify such a large sum? This sets a terribly dangerous precedent for Canada. Why don't you ask Stockwell Day? Maybe Harper can make Arar an adviser. Quote
gc1765 Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 I agree with some sort of compensation...but really, who needs $10 million?? Even with $1 million he could buy a nice house and never have to work again. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Fortunata Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 You guys try torture for a year then come back and tell us how much you think it's worth ok? Quote
August1991 Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 $10mil? How do they justify such a large sum?They're not spending their own money. It's very easy to be generous with other people's money.You and I had nothing to do with this but you and I are the ones who are going to pay for it. By rights, the people who made this mistake (assuming there was a mistake) should have to pay for it. ---- The precedent is doubly bad. It's an invitation for people to seek compensation. (How many people are wrongfully held in Canadian prisons pending trial and then found innocent?) It's an invitation for government employees to commit errors without personal penalty. (How many health care bureaucrats can simply refuse to reimburse medical treatment received abroad?) This government is caving in on everything. They are just the Liberal Party with a different name. Quote
August1991 Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 You guys try torture for a year then come back and tell us how much you think it's worth ok?Fortunata, I didn't torture Arar. I had absolutely nothing to do with this injustice. By making me pay for this injustice, the injustice is further compounded.---- If such things can be compared, Steven Marshall suffered as much if not more than Arar. His family received $2.3 million (once again, I paid my share). The police in question are now retired and have suffered no serious sanction. The Quebec police ethics committee began on Tuesday its public hearing into the case of a mentally handicapped man who was wrongfully convicted of sexual assault.Simon Marshall was imprisoned from 1997 to 2003 after he wrongly confessed to a string of sexual assaults in Ste-Foy, a Quebec City suburb. A DNA test later cleared Marshall. The Quebec Court of Appeal ruled he was a victim of miscarried justice and ordered his criminal record expunged. Marshall's lawyer, Jean-Paul Michaud, told CBC News that his client went through "hell" in prison because of his handicap, and because of the nature of the crimes he was accused of committing. "Think of the worst, and that's what Simon lived through," Marshall said. CBCStephen Harper was elected to create an "accountable" government. But that's not what this Arar decision enourages. Quote
Fortunata Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 I hear that but the fact remains that we pay for what government does or doesn't do. I don't want to pay for RCMP mistakes either; I think the RCMP make too many mistakes. And we end up paying for them all. I hope that oversight committee gets formed quickly and they take a good long hard look at how the RCMP conducts business. So far I'm not impressed. Quote
jbg Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 Compensation to be announced tomorrow. Personal compensation of $10 Million, plus legal costs, and formal apology. This is on the National right now. Should have been a one-way plane ticket to the despotism of his choice. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
geoffrey Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 They're not spending their own money. It's very easy to be generous with other people's money.You and I had nothing to do with this but you and I are the ones who are going to pay for it. By rights, the people who made this mistake (assuming there was a mistake) should have to pay for it. Absolutely agreed. If a company's director makes a terrible decision, the shareholders stand to lose their investment I suppose, but the company can't reach into my bank account and pull money out to pay for the damages... generally a director can be held personally liable for a breach of professional standards (see Ken Lay or Jeffrey Skilling). Essientially one of the government's 'directors' make a mistake here, and the company is using it's shareholders (Canadians) bank accounts to foot the bill. I'm sure those responsibile likely have considerable assets. They should be the ones paying any judgement out of their personal money, as it was their personal negligence (or worse). I'm personally a little sick of the two standards, one for the business world where people freely give money to companies that are held to much higher standards. And another for the government, who use coercion to take our money, and then aren't in any way, shape, or form responsible for it's use. This government is caving in on everything. They are just the Liberal Party with a different name. Normally August, your the one with the perfect forsight on every prediction... but I think I beat you to that one. So the question is, for people in our camp, what do we do?? Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") --
Fortunata Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 This government is caving in on everything. They are just the Liberal Party with a different name. No. They are just like government. Parties forming government, especially minorities, need votes and they would sell out their mothers for a few. Harper is no different, what on earth made you think he would be? Just because he said so? Quote
Leafless Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 Compensation to be announced tomorrow. Personal compensation of $10 Million, plus legal costs, and formal apology. This is on the National right now. The Harper government is adhering to insane Liberal social policy and is only laughing at Canadians who have built and died for this country. This will only make Canada the laughing stock of the world. Quote
BC_chick Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 We have no responsibility for a dual citizen in their home nation IMO. If Syria came and invaded Canada to 'liberate' one of their citizens, it'd be unacceptable. Why do we expect Canada to do the same? Totally agreed about dual-citizenship in a home-country and as far as I know, that is the case. But this is a different issue altogether in which Canadian intelligence was complicit in sending Arar to Syria. However, I do agree that the sum is too high. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
gc1765 Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 I didn't torture Arar. I had absolutely nothing to do with this injustice. By making me pay for this injustice, the injustice is further compounded. If I can play devil's advocate here... If you own a car, everytime someone else crashes, you pay money through insurance. Doctors have malpractice insurance to protect them financially from mistakes, and we all pay for it. One could argue that the people responsible were in a position (much like doctors) where the potential for mistakes can happen. Would you feel better if the government paid for some sort of malpractice insurance for government employees, which would cover a situation like this? Now, if someone did something intentionally to cause Arar to be tortured (which from the little I know about this case, I believe that is what happened) they should certainly be disciplined. But that doesn't mean compensation shouldn't be paid (Incidentally, if a doctor were to intentionally injure a patient would they still be covered under malpractice insurance? If not, then I guess my point isn't valid). Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
geoffrey Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 We have no responsibility for a dual citizen in their home nation IMO. If Syria came and invaded Canada to 'liberate' one of their citizens, it'd be unacceptable. Why do we expect Canada to do the same? Totally agreed about dual-citizenship in a home-country and as far as I know, that is the case. But this is a different issue altogether in which Canadian intelligence was complicit in sending Arar to Syria. However, I do agree that the sum is too high. I agree with you that Canadian intelligence is liable... but it seems like it was mostly at the upper levels of the department. In private industry, these people could be held personally responsible. I think they should be if they did something wrong. But I never did anything wrong to Mr. Arar. Why should I have to pay a dime? It's easy for the government to settle huge lawsuits when it's your's and mine money that are paying for them, and not their own. Any settlement IMO should have come from the pockets of those responsibile for inflecting harm on Arar, and should only cover lost wages or any pain and suffering that actually is backed by enough evidence to stand up in court. In other words, he shouldn't have got much. Definitely not $10m. Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") --
madmax Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 Should have been a one-way plane ticket to the despotism of his choice. But the US won't let him in Quote
madmax Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 In other words, he shouldn't have got much. Definitely not $10m. Stephen Harper is going to make an announcement today, probably to tell you why he cut a deal. Quote
myata Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 Absolutely agreed. If a company's director makes a terrible decision, the shareholders stand to lose their investment I suppose, but the company can't reach into my bank account and pull money out to pay for the damages... generally a director can be held personally liable for a breach of professional standards (see Ken Lay or Jeffrey Skilling). You are correct geoffrey, but who would be the "shareholders" of the government? Who owns it? Who elects its CEOs and the board? You answered your own question. Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
jbg Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 Oops. Double post Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
guyser Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 Compensation to be announced tomorrow. Personal compensation of $10 Million, plus legal costs, and formal apology. This is on the National right now. Good for him. Might be a bit much but nothing one can do. My only question is how did it get done so fast.? Quote
myata Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 I agree though that compensation of that size is way over the board. Let's not forget that though it was wrong for the RCMP to send this wrong information, it's the americans who sent him to Syria. Compensation of this size creates the impression that Canadian government accepted full responsibility to the unfortunate things that happened to him. Such responsibilty should be shared between Canada (for providing wrong information - lesser part) and the US (for deporting him to Syria even though he was travelling on Canadian passport - greater part). Also, how does it compare to compensation given to other wrongfully accused (in this country and abroad)? Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Saturn Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 You guys try torture for a year then come back and tell us how much you think it's worth ok?Fortunata, I didn't torture Arar. I had absolutely nothing to do with this injustice. By making me pay for this injustice, the injustice is further compounded.If such things can be compared, Steven Marshall suffered as much if not more than Arar. His family received $2.3 million (once again, I paid my share). The police in question are now retired and have suffered no serious sanction. Was Steven Marshall tortured? Did he and his family live in fear that he would be killed in prison? Mulroney got $2 million for libel and taxpayers paid for it too. On top of that 15 years later it seems that he was worthy of the accusations. Was his suffering worth $2 million? And what exactly did you in particular pay for? Do your taxes exceed the part of your education costs that the government covers? How about other services you use? Quote
Saturn Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 Compensation to be announced tomorrow. Personal compensation of $10 Million, plus legal costs, and formal apology. This is on the National right now. Good for him. Might be a bit much but nothing one can do. My only question is how did it get done so fast.? The government is not on particularly good terms with the muslim community right now and they wanted to get this resolved before the election (to score points with the muslim community of course). Quote
Drea Posted January 26, 2007 Report Posted January 26, 2007 Compensation to be announced tomorrow. Personal compensation of $10 Million, plus legal costs, and formal apology. This is on the National right now. Should have been a one-way plane ticket to the despotism of his choice. What an utterly pathetic comment. Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
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