CEOs to gov't: "Stop us!"

[Black Dog]

Loathe as I am to contribute to the needless proliferation of climate change threads, I can't really think of where to put this. Plus, I want to bump out the 9-11 thread so....

CEOs plead for mandatory emissions caps

Chief executives of 10 major corporations urged Congress on Monday to require limits on greenhouse gases this year, contending voluntary efforts to combat climate change are inadequate.

...

The executives, representing major utilities, aluminum and chemical companies and financial institutions, said the cornerstone of climate policy should be an economy-wide emissions cap-and-trade system.

Members of the group include chief executives of Alcoa Inc., BP America Inc., DuPont Co., Caterpillar Inc., General Electric Co., and Duke Energy Corp.

At a news conference, the executives said that mandatory reductions of heat-trapping emissions can be imposed without economic harm and would lead to economic opportunities if done across the economy and with provisions to mitigate costs.

Many of the companies already have voluntarily moved to curb greenhouse emissions, they said. But the executives also said they do not believe voluntary efforts will suffice.

"It must be mandatory, so there is no doubt about our actions," said Jim Rogers, chairman of Duke Energy. "The science of global warming is clear. We know enough to act now. We must act now."

Dag, yo.

[Guthrie]

it's a little like the old joke, 'Why are lawyers better lab animals than rats?'

[Charles Anthony]

Plus, I want to bump out the 9-11 thread so....

Good enough reason for me.

However, at the risk of carrying on the the vein of the 9-11 conspiracy thread, this...

Essentially such a mechanism would have mandatory limits of greenhouse gas emissions, but would allow companies to trade emission credits to reduce the cost. Companies that can't meet the cap could purchase credits from those that exceed them or in some case from a government auction.

... sounds interesting. All they have to do is set the permissible levels to where they are now.

The big companies can sell the credits to the smaller companies. The great big companies will be more successful at installing green technology than the smaller companies. With enough time, the credit system will be an easy way for the great big capitalist companies to force the smaller ones out of business.

Congratulations. Socialist policies leading to market concentration. There is always room for cronyism!

[GostHacked]

These 'credits' you speak of. Are they essentially the same as what Kyoto outlines? Buying credits to be allowed to pollute more? Buy those credits from other companies that reach their goals or even reduce the level below what is allowed? I am not understanding how this will reduce the greenhouse gasses. Seems like the levels will be the same, but it is just shifted around to other companies.

I'd say be green anyways, no matter what. If you manage to lower your emmissions, then you should be held to those new standards. That seems like the only way to really lower it across the board. Also it would depend on what type of pollution is being emmited by these companies.

Company A beat the pollution standard by 20% (let's say sulphur and carbon dioxide)

Company B increased it's pollution output by 20% (but it is all carbon dioxide)

I know this is a weak example, but it at least points out, that not all pollution is the same. I used to live in Sudbury Ontario, and if you know anything about the city there is plenty of pollution from both mining outfits. Inco and Falconbridge. So there is ALOT of sulphur that is spewed into the air. It has gotten better over the years, but I recall more often than not, the sulphur in the air. Ever breath that shit? I am expecting to develop some wierd desiese that is localized to just Sudburians.

I think this is another way of not really reducing it, but shifting it around.

[August1991]

The great big companies will be more successful at installing green technology than the smaller companies. With enough time, the credit system will be an easy way for the great big capitalist companies to force the smaller ones out of business.

You mean just like IBM was technologically far ahead of little Microsoft in the early 1980s, or GM ahead of Toyota in the 1960s.

[Charles Anthony]

You mean just like IBM was technologically far ahead of little Microsoft in the early 1980s, or GM ahead of Toyota in the 1960s.

Did they have a government forcing technology upon them?

Let me point out how cronyism can be disguised by whoever defines and regulates the credits.

Buying credits to be allowed to pollute more?

Yes. As a simplified example, try to imagine the government saying "We will allow a total of 1,000,000 tons of crap to be spewed out every year!" and every crap-producer will have to buy a license for each unit of crap.

Now imagine the government gradually reducing the permissible amount of crap each year. Next year it might be 999,999 tons and the following year 999,998 tons and so on. Each permit will depreciate in how much crap it can spew out. For the sake of simplicity, one credit will first permit 1 ton but next year it will permit 0.999 tons and the following year it will permit 0.998 tons and so on.

A company can sell its credits to others. A company that owns 500,000 tons of credits but only needs to spew out 400,000 of crap (because of recently installed scrubbers or green-technology) can sell its credits to a smaller company that does NOT install green-technology. The total amount of crap spewed out is what matters and the government still maintains the control.

Here is where the market concentration can come in: the big firm can just hold onto its credits and NOT sell them. I know it sounds paranoidally Marxist but we do live in a crony-capitalist world.

Company A beat the pollution standard by 20% (let's say sulphur and carbon dioxide)

Company B increased it's pollution output by 20% (but it is all carbon dioxide)

No. That would be a bad (for the environment) way to do it. There would be separate crap-credits for different types of crap.

Although, throw some money under the table to a politician and you might be able to get the credit rules to be re-defined in your favor.

[Fortunata]

Check this out: http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/video.php?id=1333

This guy was on As it Happens some years ago describing how they were going green and making money out of it. A good standard has been set for all companies if they want to accept the challenge. Companies can change profitably, it's just, in most cases, they don't want to.